Experience with the Council Tool splitting mauls?

[littleknife]

If you're meaning the grind lines on your Council ax? Mine were 'some deep'
But I smoothed them out with a file and sand paper. Not much to fuss about. Except the unhardened pole. Still, it would split dried or fresh cut Emory oak easily. DM

Thanks, David.
My concern was mainly for the handle of the axe, but after seeing that much nicer examples of the same axe are sold, I couldn't help it and became bitter.
The grind lines near the edge are just one thing, but the the overall shape of the whole head is not symmetrical. Some corners are rounded and beveled, others are not. Some surfaces are unevenly pocked, others are relatively smooth. It looks like it was finished by a drunken monkey.

I commented on the subpar finish and grind lines, because evidently they can produce better quality tools as well, based on the example Square_peg got from Whiskey River Co after he returned his misshaped first one to the other seller. This axe is not exactly cheap, so such variation in quality is not justifiable. I did not expect a boutique axe finish, but when the cheaper Mexican or Chinese made axes all have much better and consistent grind and finish, I start to doubt if the allegedly superior Council Tool heat treatment is better and/or consistent as well.

When I contacted the seller for a return, I learned that they have sold out of this axe, so they could not exchange it for another one. I could return it for a refund, but I decided to keep it and use it. If and when the handle breaks, I will re-haft it. I just hope that Council Tool did not cut corners with the heat treatment too.

 

[David Martin]

Humm. I'm interested to see what you think after you use it. DM

 

[littleknife]

I ended up ordering a Rinaldi splitting maul from FortyTwoBlades (Baryonyx Knife Co.).

http://www.baryonyxknife.com/rispma.html

I have received it today.
I ordered the special grade, so he refined the factory edge.
I like the profile, it is one typically found in European splitting mauls.
It has a slip fit tomahawk like handle. The one I got has an European ash handle, but some lots have beech handles.
If I could have a choice, I would have ask for an European beech handle, but the current stock had ash hafts.
Both woods have similar strength properties, but beech moves considerably more with changes in humidity, but it also wears better, achieving a very nice smooth finish with wear.

This is a nice maul, and not much more expensive than the Council Tool one.
I am glad I have ordered it.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

All abstractions aside, expressed as stated properties of this wood or that wood, there is a big difference in the feel of ash and beech. While not overstating the subjectivity of such a description beech provides a more solid grip the ash feeling relatively tenuous, (though still good, don't get me wrong now by any means, it's a matter of subtlety we're having it over ). For such reasons, in southern regions there is a definite preference given to beech as an axe handle material - who knows, maybe they got more sweaty hands down there - and in the border-line areas, as the northern preferences transition to the southern, the split approaches 50/50 I guess and some merchants even have traditionally offered their customers up the choice, the one-time producer of a range of outdoors tools Feiner GmbH of Bavaria for example. There one could choose to get an ordered tool with or without its beech or ash handle.

 

[littleknife]

All abstractions aside, expressed as stated properties of this wood or that wood, there is a big difference in the feel of ash and beech. While not overstating the subjectivity of such a description beech provides a more solid grip the ash feeling relatively tenuous, (though still good, don't get me wrong now by any means, it's a matter of subtlety we're having it over ).

Ernest, I have never used an ash handled large striking tool before. I have experience with beech hafted ones and I liked the feel. As you said, it is grippy enough but also becomes very smooth with use - it provides a very pleasant feel when used with bare hands. While not as strong as hickory, it is strong and shock resistant enough. Its drawbacks are that it can shrink or expand considerably with changes in humidity and it easily attracts wood boring insects, but a good surface finish (e.g. BLO) will reduce both problems.

 

[Ernest DuBois]

It is a funny thing, this dimensional stability, not that I doubt the claim you make at all. At the same time beech is probably the most common material in all the planes sitting on my shelf and it's where we could expect stability to be, even critically important. I think we have to regard the dimensions involved, grain orientation, air quality fluctuations through the yearly cycles where you live ...and so on and so on. That said I have surely encountered my fair share of older axes handled with beech that are not particularly solidly attached in and of themselves. Such a situation was the case when an axe head went flying on me last year squaring up timbers, an experience I wouldn't want repeated. I can back you up though on the observation that the beech are a favorite of the wood worm. Leave your beech wood unattended, it's guaranteed to become worm feed.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I find ash to be better at mitigating shock to the hands, but beech to be more forgiving of accidental overstrikes. And beech is definitely more prone to insect damage and rot. But I do find beech pleasant. I do find it curious that Robinia pseudoacacia (black locust) is fairly plentiful in Europe as an invasive but it doesn't seem to get harvested for tool handle usage and hickory gets imported by many tool companies for handles instead. It's surprising to me that a good hickory alternative is available domestically but it doesn't get used for such.

 

[littleknife]

It is a funny thing, this dimensional stability, not that I doubt the claim you make at all. At the same time beech is probably the most common material in all the planes sitting on my shelf and it's where we could expect stability to be, even critically important. I think we have to regard the dimensions involved, grain orientation, air quality fluctuations through the yearly cycles where you live ...and so on and so on. That said I have surely encountered my fair share of older axes handled with beech that are not particularly solidly attached in and of themselves. Such a situation was the case when an axe head went flying on me last year squaring up timbers, an experience I wouldn't want repeated. I can back you up though on the observation that the beech are a favorite of the wood worm. Leave your beech wood unattended, it's guaranteed to become worm feed.

Ernest, you are absolutely right regarding the dimensions and grain orientation. Beech wood has significantly different movement along and across the grain.
Also, as you mentioned, climate can be very important too. Belgium is likely to have less temperature and humidity fluctuations than Central Europe (e.g. Hungary) with its continental climate, which has typically hot summers, rainy springs and falls, and cold, dry winters (as I said, typically).
I had a tightly fitted beech handled adze where the slip fit haft shrunk so much in winter, that the head slipped off when I picked up the tool.
The climate is similar in the mountains of South-Eastern Europe too (Romania, Bulgaria, Bosnia-Herzegovina etc.)
There beech is also more abundant than ash, maybe that's why the traditional preference of beech over ash.

 

[littleknife]

I find ash to be better at mitigating shock to the hands, but beech to be more forgiving of accidental overstrikes. And beech is definitely more prone to insect damage and rot. But I do find beech pleasant. I do find it curious that Robinia pseudoacacia (black locust) is fairly plentiful in Europe as an invasive but it doesn't seem to get harvested for tool handle usage and hickory gets imported by many tool companies for handles instead. It's surprising to me that a good hickory alternative is available domestically but it doesn't get used for such.

One of the countries with the highest density of pure or almost pure black locust stands in Europe is Hungary. The native forest trees of the flood planes of the Hungarian Puszta (which actually means "desolate, empty place" in Hungarian) were gone by the late medieval times, and were replaced with san dunes. This created dust bowls, which combined with the periodic huge floods, did not allow for much agriculture besides some semi-nomadic cattle and later sheep herding. In the mid 19th Century the Austro-Hungarian government decided to adress the problem by both regulating the the extremely meandering rivers (the Danube and the Tisza), as well as attempting to fix the soil with trees growing well in sandy soils.
They chose the black locust (Robinia pseudoacacia), a tree native to the Eastern USA (the Ozarks and the Appalachians). They preferred to plant a cultivar called "ship mast locust, or Pinnata cultivar", which usually has a single, tall trunk. The imported trees luckily lacked their natural insect predators and fungal parasites, which stunt so many black locust trees in the US. The local insects and fungi were no match for the black locust, so the trees thrived and did the job they were intended to do: fixed the soil, created a more fertile topsoil (the tree is a "nitrogen fixing" legume, its roots harbor nitrogen fixing bacteria"). Once the trees, which were planted to block the prevailing winds, were tall enough, they prevented the wind from carrying away the sand. Also, the air became more humid, so the moving sand dunes and the dust bowl gradually disappeared.
This allowed for planting corn and wheat, and provided the locals with wood for heating and later on for construction (the black locust wood has very high BTU). The people discovered that the wood is very tough and also rot resistant, so it quickly became a favorite for all kind of wooden implements, including tool handles. In Hungary one can find black locust axe handles too.

https://www.agoraweb.hu/szerszamnyelek-akacfabol

http://euronails.hu/index.php?route=product/category&path=69

http://euronails.hu/index.php?route=product/product&path=69&product_id=742

https://www.grube.hu/Szerszamnyel/NORDFOREST-hasitofejsze-nyel-ovalis-szem-p0372316.html

In a couple of generations the tree became considered as a true native species, and many of the locals did not know it was just a recent introduction.
The black locust tree was so much associated with the rural Hungarian landscape, that many folk songs commemorated it as the favorite tree, standing around the parental house.

Since its flowers produce abundant sweet nectar, honey production took off along the large pure stands, and the "acacia honey" became the favorite honey of Hungarians. Until recently, Hungary was the biggest exporter of "acacia honey" in Europe. The honey is has light golden color, and is very delicious without any funky or strong taste. Compared to it, the typical clover and other honeys sold in the US all taste "medicinal".
By the way, black locust is called "acacia" in many European languages, because the leaves resemble those of the true acacia's, and also, some of the cultivars have thorns, like the true acacias.

After the fall of the communism, Hungary started to export large quantities of black locust timber, which is stronger and more rot resistant than oak. The French, Spanish and German timber industries did not like the competition under the new free trade agreements, so they successfully lobbied their respective governments as well as the EU regulatory bodies which the Germans and French control, to pressure the Hungarian government to eradicate the tree from Hungary. They were arguing that black locust is a non-native and invasive species (both of which are true), but interestingly did not want to eradicate the tree from their respective countries. What they forgot to mention is that the tree in most of its areas in Hungary did not compete with native trees, because those were gone for more than half a millennium there, and only moving sand dunes remained.
This political pressure caused an uproar in Hungary, and the government(s) decided to resist the EU pressure.
They declared the tree and the honey to be "Hungarikum", i.e. legally defined and protected entities which are typical and/or of exceptional quality, which are part of or define aspects of the Hungarian tradition, culture and excellence. This legal status exempts the black locust from the legal regulations and threats of the EU.
For now, the black locust is relatively safe in Hungary.
According to a 2004 statistics, black locust is the most common tree species in Hungary, comprising 22.5% of the forested land and 12.5% of the tree mass.

I also have to add, that I have never used tools with black locust handles, so I cannot comment regarding their feel. But I am sure, those handles will resist insect damage much-much more, than the beech ones.

Finally, a little extra for FortyTwoBlades - Hungarian scythe snath made of black locust wood:

https://www.agoraweb.hu/termekek/kaszanyel-2-kaccsos-akac-1247

 

[Ernest DuBois]

Very interesting little, thank you for a rounded story of the trees origins and rational for its introduction, through to its adoption and finally its utilitarian exploitation and vector now of State corruption. It all makes perfect sense. I bet there is even a lot more to say about the Robinia and impacts of its large scale introduction in Hungary because my sense is that tree does dominate a good deal of the landscape there by now for better or for worse.

It is important to note its position as a relatively new introduction and the relationship this has to its use and acceptance. I guess when all the alternatives are gone as in the case of Hungary it makes the choice easier.

I've always had plenty of access to Robinia but have never wanted to use it for an axe handle mainly, I guess, because of more suitable alternatives available. It is not so pleasant to work it with hand cutting tools except in the exceptional instances where the wood is of high quality but such wood is put to other uses and is relatively expensive. Also the weight factor, it's on the heavy side. It is tough and flexible but at the same time very hard and unforgiving which will influence not only grip but the handle's ability of remain fixed to the head. I think it may partially explain why it hasn't been able to replace the more widely accepted woods.

I didn't remember that the tree's native habitat was Eastern USA. It kind of turns the question of 42blades on its head and we could ask why, when Hickory and Robinia are existing side by side is Hickory the common axe handle material in its native area and not Robinia?

If we maintain some degree of humility, giving our predecessors due credit we could come up with the obvious answer of why the one species finds a particular favor over the other which is in short, that there are better alternatives, and then go on from there to examine specific aspects in the normal way.

 

[littleknife]

It is important to note its position as a relatively new introduction and the relationship this has to its use and acceptance. I guess when all the alternatives are gone as in the case of Hungary it makes the choice easier.

At the time of its introduction, the central part of the Hungarian Kingdom, which is now Hungary, was sparsely forested. In the last 150-200 years forest lands increased dramatically, mostly due to planting black locust. Prior to that, Maria Theresa, the Austrian Empress ordered planting willow, which did not grow well.
Robinia's acceptance was an easy process, since the tree provided so many benefits without the problems associated when it is an invasive species in an existing local native forest.

I've always had plenty of access to Robinia but have never wanted to use it for an axe handle mainly, I guess, because of more suitable alternatives available. It is not so pleasant to work it with hand cutting tools except in the exceptional instances where the wood is of high quality but such wood is put to other uses and is relatively expensive. Also the weight factor, it's on the heavy side. It is tough and flexible but at the same time very hard and unforgiving which will influence not only grip but the handle's ability of remain fixed to the head. I think it may partially explain why it hasn't been able to replace the more widely accepted woods.

Even in Hungary the black locust is not the most prevalent, and definitely not the preferred traditional handle wood. I think that has to do mostly with the fact, that it has more interlocked grain than for example hickory, so it is difficult to work with hand tools. That may explain why its use traditionally was a building material for the high quality timber and fire wood for the lower quality one.
The situation changed in the last century with the wide availability of power tools specialized power tools and the shift to factory production of wooden implements, which makes handle production efficient and more economical.

I didn't remember that the tree's native habitat was Eastern USA. It kind of turns the question of 42blades on its head and we could ask why, when Hickory and Robinia are existing side by side is Hickory the common axe handle material in its native area and not Robinia?

If we maintain some degree of humility, giving our predecessors due credit we could come up with the obvious answer of why the one species finds a particular favor over the other which is in short, that there are better alternatives, and then go on from there to examine specific aspects in the normal way.

Excellent observations, Ernest!
Unlike Hungary and other countries, where the tree was planted in pure plantation stands, in the US the tree grows as a minor species of the eastern hardwood forests, so it is not as widely available. Also, due to the presence of native insects and fungal parasites which can injure it, clear timber is much more scarce than for example in Hungary. With the availability of abundant and easier to shape with hand tools excellent alternatives, like hickory, it never became a preferred handle choice in the US either. Its extreme rot resistance made it an easy choice for outdoor applications like fence posts, which do net require too much shaping to produce. This was the case with Osage orange too: now a premium handle material, but in the past it was preferred for fence posts.

 

[David Martin]

This seems like educational discussions to me as I've not had a axe haft last through one season. I usually have to replace them once or twice between now and April. If one did, I'd take note of it and find out the type of wood. Then try to purchase that type
next time. Just my experience. DM

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I didn't remember that the tree's native habitat was Eastern USA. It kind of turns the question of 42blades on its head and we could ask why, when Hickory and Robinia are existing side by side is Hickory the common axe handle material in its native area and not Robinia?

Chiefly that hickory was more abundant, a bit easier to work, gives slightly higher overall performance, and generally grows both straighter and larger. Hickory is actually very slightly heavier than black locust, so weight was not a concern. But if you can't have hickory, black locust makes a fantastic alternative. It's fast-growing, self-propagating (especially when cut), and gives very similar overall performance to hickory. Plus it looks lovely, which is a nice bonus.

 

[littleknife]

This seems like educational discussions to me as I've not had a axe haft last through one season. I usually have to replace them once or twice between now and April. If one did, I'd take note of it and find out the type of wood. Then try to purchase that type next time. Just my experience. DM

Fiberglass would likely last even longer, but for some people, like me, the feel would not be right. To me the feel is almost as important as the durability.
There are metal handled mauls too, but I would not use them, unless there is absolutely no alternative.

 

[David Martin]

I've had a fiberglass and it made it through one season and started on the next, before I had to glue it back in.
I have a metal handle on a ax that has given me little trouble in 20 year. But the guys here made fun of it, so I went back to paying for 2-3 wood handles each season to help my wrist. DM

 

[thunderstick]

Try some hockey tape on your handles as a sacrificial layer that can be replaced. It looks fine if do a good tape job. It protects against scarring and helps on over-strikes. I have wood handles for many years on some mauls which do a fair amount of splitting.

 

[FLINT77]

I'm pretty sure that black locust is heavier than hickory. I've cut a crap ton of firewood over the last 30 years in VA. Locust is by far the heaviest/densest wood I've cut and burned. When dry it is almost as heavy as it is green. it is dramatically more rot resistant also. a hickory tree laying on the ground will actually rot pretty quickly if not split up, but you could bury locust in the ground and dig it up in five years and burn it. it is amazing wood. and the trees grow fast, and will grow practically anywhere. I made a small military shovel handle out of black locust but that's about it. I wonder if there is some property about the wood that makes it less effective as a handle - or if it is rather a product of its ecology. Black locust is a pioneer species. you generally don't see forests of locust at least I never have. you see locusts at the edges fields or randomly in rocky fields, the edge of the road, or yard or somewhere else that they are allowed to grow without competition. They may not tolerate shade well, so if they don't survive in a forest stand, they might not be a good species for harvesting on a large scale like oak or hickory which are climax species.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I'm pretty sure that black locust is heavier than hickory. I've cut a crap ton of firewood over the last 30 years in VA. Locust is by far the heaviest/densest wood I've cut and burned. When dry it is almost as heavy as it is green. it is dramatically more rot resistant also. a hickory tree laying on the ground will actually rot pretty quickly if not split up, but you could bury locust in the ground and dig it up in five years and burn it. it is amazing wood. and the trees grow fast, and will grow practically anywhere. I made a small military shovel handle out of black locust but that's about it. I wonder if there is some property about the wood that makes it less effective as a handle - or if it is rather a product of its ecology. Black locust is a pioneer species. you generally don't see forests of locust at least I never have. you see locusts at the edges fields or randomly in rocky fields, the edge of the road, or yard or somewhere else that they are allowed to grow without competition. They may not tolerate shade well, so if they don't survive in a forest stand, they might not be a good species for harvesting on a large scale like oak or hickory which are climax species.

They were actually grown commercially for a while on Long Island, so there's tons of it there. It demonstrated that it can be done, it's just not something that's probably as easy as doing with hickory. But in places that can't grow hickory but CAN

As far as weight, the Wood Database puts Black Locust right between Shagbark Hickory and Bitternut Hickory, as well as its modulus of rupture and elasticity.

 

[davidwyby]

Hi, new guy from the PNW, now in SoCal. Ended up here researching felling wedge bangers and splitters. Now I have 3 bangers and a few splitters here or on the way. Doh! I wasn’t gonna get into axes like saws…

Question, is the Falci Maul the same as the Rinaldi? They look it, just ordered one. My dad had a removable handle pickaxe when I was a kid…have a lot of difficult to split eucalyptus and pine.

- oh, another…does the 6lb council split better than the 5? The 5 just gets stuck, fiskars x27 works better, but I don’t “like” it…

Thanks

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Rinaldi has a harder heat treatment and usually better out-of-the-box cheek geometry than Falci, though Falci's axes aren't bad. Some of their models are actually made in Slovenia by Tovarna Kos (if it has a very rounded shape to the corners upon receipt it's probably by them) and some are made by Rinaldi under contract, while some are made by Falci themselves (usually with a lot of coarse finish grinding all over the head.)