Fading popularity of traditional knives

Ya, it did take a wide turn. It went from the traditional knife's place in the market place, to super steels vs carbon, to traditionals vs moderns, to knives as weapons. This is where I bow out of the conversation, knives as weapons is the modern folders realm.

There are definitely some twists in the path the conversation took, but they all seem (at least tangentially) relevant to the topic of whether or not "traditional knives are dying out in our modern world," as the OP put it. If the market is dominated by modern folders, the continuing viability of traditional knives hinges on what traditionals can offer that moderns don't.

I keep going back to the last point JohnDF made above: "knives as weapons is the modern folders realm."

This might be the main reason I believe the market for traditional folders will never fade completely. If you want a knife that is without question a tool and not a weapon, a small-ish slipjoint is probably the best way to go.
 
I wonder where the real market lies in traditional pocket knives, high end like GEC or low end like Rough Rider. I see more about the very high end but we are in our own bubble here. Meanwhile the big box stores seem to make a killing selling chinese bucks and old timers (what a shame). I think knives like this hurt the traditional market. For example, all the people that think slipjoint steel is automatically junk, well thats true about an old timers 7cr alphabet soup steel, but good 1095 carbon can be excellent.
As far as Rough Rider goes, I actually like them. That doesnt mean that theyre excempt from the discussion. They are good for what they are, but they are still low end. I do give them a pass though, since they are better than they have any right to be and they arent in big box stores flooding the market for non knife people.
 
we are in our own bubble here. Meanwhile the big box stores seem to make a killing selling chinese bucks and old timers (what a shame). I think knives like this hurt the traditional market. For example, all the people that think slipjoint steel is automatically junk, well thats true about an old timers 7cr alphabet soup steel, but good 1095 carbon can be excellent.
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Wish Buck would contract for 12c27 in it's Chinese line instead of 420j2. Buck might even get some market share in slipjoints from the "unwashed masses" because of the name recognition.
 
Wish Buck would contract for 12c27 in it's Chinese line instead of 420j2. Buck might even get some market share in slipjoints from the "unwashed masses" because of the name recognition.

Not to mention that the performance would improve drastically. 14C28 would be even better. We know that Kershaw seems to be able to make inexpensive knives using it ... Maybe Buck doesn't want the Chinese made folders to out perform the US made folders. I'm serious. Companies do things like this. It usually ends up biting them on the ass in the long run, but they do it anyway.
 
I wonder where the real market lies in traditional pocket knives, high end like GEC or low end like Rough Rider.

I think the volume sales are at the low end, where they've always been. Gas stations, hardware stores, Walmart, farm supplies, etc. Where the most profit lies, I have no idea.
 
I think the volume sales are at the low end, where they've always been. Gas stations, hardware stores, Walmart, farm supplies, etc. Where the most profit lies, I have no idea.
Yeah once gas stations start peddling Case instead of "knives" made of melted tin cans and spray painted plastic, then there will be some real hope lol. I wont hold my breath though :(
 
If they start to make frame lock knives with that level of cutting ability, I would go back again.
But I don't see that coming any time soon.

I don't see it coming ever. The problem is that you need a certain amount of surface area for the lock bar to engage securely and to leave room for some wear before the lock becomes loose. That means that the tang has to be thick. I suppose someone could use thick stock and grind the blade thin, but that costs time, money, material, and belts in a market that sees thicker blades as better somehow. If you're OK with back locks, I know of a couple that might work for you. PM me if you want more specifics, we're in the wrong place and we're way off topic.
 
There are some modern knives that can really cut, but most cant compete with traditionals. Huge, heavy folding prybars are the norm. Its a shame because I really like some moderns. The few that are made to really cut can be incredible! I have a Benchmade Presidio Ultra that I love because its got a deep hollow grind on the blade, which I dont see much in modern knives, and it can cut like few knives can. Just one example. So they arent all bad obviously, and they have their place.
I do wish the average joe would wisen up though. Usually when I see people around here using a knife its a gas station disposable piece of junk or, for the discerning average joe, a Gerber piece of junk lol. A good slipjoint would serve them so much better! Or if they need a knife for hard work, they could get an old TL-29 and have something reliable. Id trust a good slipjoint more than any gas station "knife" ever made. The last one I saw by the way, was painted from the gas station, with pot leaves.. classy....... lol also, a good way to get harassed by cops lol
So, it begs the question, why would people buy this crap???? It boggles the mind. My cousin was showing off his newest gas station knife for work (the typical spray painted 'merican flag karambit, half serrated, made of melted matchbox cars) to me one day and I just had to smile and nod. I couldnt bring myself to tell him what I really thought, he was just so excited lol. He asked if I had a knife, and I showed the Benchmade I mentioned earlier in this post. He said it was a "gay butterfly" knife lol. Hes older than me, around 50, and a handyman. You would think he would be firmly in the traditional market by demographics, but no. And theres thousands more like him.
 
I bought a case cv stockman a while back at the local camping/outdoor store very cheap on clearance. They no longer carry these knives. I can’t help but wonder if they don’t carry them because of the carbon steel.

I’m 40 years old, and any knife I had growing up was stainless. So, anyone in my age group or younger that’s not into knives may not know what carbon steel is. Imagine going to the store to get a knife to bring camping. You use it and throw it in with your camping stuff. Next time you go camping you pull it out and it’s all rusty. That could be a bad experience that retailers want to avoid.

I mostly use carbon steel now because I prefer it, but I think there are a lot of people out there that just buy a knife to use and don’t pay any attention to steel. Perhaps retailers are catering to that with less carbon steel and more stainless just to avoid problems/disappointment.
 
I bought a case cv stockman a while back at the local camping/outdoor store very cheap on clearance. They no longer carry these knives. I can’t help but wonder if they don’t carry them because of the carbon steel.

I’m 40 years old, and any knife I had growing up was stainless. So, anyone in my age group or younger that’s not into knives may not know what carbon steel is. Imagine going to the store to get a knife to bring camping. You use it and throw it in with your camping stuff. Next time you go camping you pull it out and it’s all rusty. That could be a bad experience that retailers want to avoid.

I mostly use carbon steel now because I prefer it, but I think there are a lot of people out there that just buy a knife to use and don’t pay any attention to steel. Perhaps retailers are catering to that with less carbon steel and more stainless just to avoid problems/disappointment.
I remember reading an online review at some point where a buyer complained about a Case sodbuster Jr which they were returning because it had rusted on them.
There was an included picture, and wouldn't you know the blade actually just had some patina on it.
According to them it was no good. ( Pretty sure the review got taken down )
I then clicked to see their other reviews and there was a later one for a Gerber paraframe which they say they got after returning a " piece if garbage " that rusted on them, it was supposedly a way better knife for not " rusting ".

It would seem you're right and many don't even have a clue what carbon steel is.
I didn't know as a kid, when my 34OT turned black ( i remember hand sanitizer doing it ) I thought it was rusty and I took sandpaper too it which allowed actual rust to form within a week.
 
It would seem you're right and many don't even have a clue what carbon steel is.

I think this is correct, I've come across knife dealers who don't know what carbon steel is! :eek: Another factor though is that carbon steel knives would be difficult for non-specialist retail outlets to display. Even if they're kept in a case, potential customers will want to handle them at some point, but the staff would then have to polish them to stop the steel becoming stained or even rusting. Easier to stock stainless in a gas station :rolleyes:
 
I thought we were talking about traditional patterns. Carbon steel knives have been a niche market for a long time now. For good reason. High quality stainless is nearly as good and doesn't need maintenance. Now if we could just get traditional makers to start using the stuff ... until then, it's 1095 for me.
 
I wonder where the real market lies in traditional pocket knives, high end like GEC or low end like Rough Rider. I see more about the very high end but we are in our own bubble here. Meanwhile the big box stores seem to make a killing selling chinese bucks and old timers (what a shame). I think knives like this hurt the traditional market. For example, all the people that think slipjoint steel is automatically junk, well thats true about an old timers 7cr alphabet soup steel, but good 1095 carbon can be excellent.
As far as Rough Rider goes, I actually like them. That doesnt mean that theyre excempt from the discussion. They are good for what they are, but they are still low end. I do give them a pass though, since they are better than they have any right to be and they arent in big box stores flooding the market for non knife people.

Same bubble exists for 'modern' knives as well. I would bet more jarbenzas are sold than cheap slipjoints by several orders of magnitude, and Rough Rider (to name a brand) are not included in that. I'd say Rough Rider, while priced lower than all the other brands we brag on here, are still mainly for people who collect knives more than just use them.
The vast majority of people who use knives, abuse knives. Even if you gave them a premium knife they would tear it up from abuse just like the $5 knife they buy at the Kwik-E-Mart, or the Chinese Buck from Wally World. Don't think so? Give the next guy you see with a no name imported POS a real nice knife, you'll see. A top shelf knife might sustain the abuse a little longer, but in the end the edges will chip when used to pry and roll when used on something too hard, and the blade will get scratched up when stuck in the dirt, and any knife will get beat up or broken when it's thrown at a stump, or worse. They wouldn't know or care what the steel is in their knives. If they did they would probably end up here :). You have to remember that the majority of people sharpen knives with something like this
3919877-21.jpg

or this
oster-electric-can-openers-electric-can-opener-knife-sharpener-used-image-oster-electric-wine-opener-how-to-use.jpg

And that's if they ever do sharpen them at all.


So my money is on the 'real market', if measured in units sold (or profit I would imagine), being the low end. The very low end.
But who wants to pedal that garbage?
 
So my money is on the 'real market', if measured in units sold (or profit I would imagine), being the low end. The very low end.
But who wants to pedal that garbage?

You're more right than you know.

Who wants to peddle that garbage? The sales people for the rest of the human race who don't give a shite about knives but need one for whatever.

Look, we're the weird ones and the less than 1% of the worlds populace at large. We're the tiny fraction of the society that is obsessed with knives, and have raised an inanimate object to cult worship item status. We obsess over the knife like it was some kind of porn, and spend much more money on them than they are really worth. Is there anyone here who really thinks a 3.99 gas station special won't cut a piece of twine or open a package? Like the Bic pen that will sign a check just as well as a high cost pen? In reality, there is actually very little need of a knife in modern urban life in the 21st century. And people who really do need a knife because of their job, just use in most cases a replaceable blade utility knife. In the last ten years, I haven't seen one single contractor who worked on our kitchen remodel, bathroom remodel, or other work use anything but a Husky, Stanley, Milwaukee or Super Knife replaceable blade utility knife. All the stock clerks at the stores I go to carry a replaceable blade utility knife in a belt holster.

We can go on and on about steel, but the Joe Average knife user just doesn't care. If it cuts he's happy. If doesn't, then he'll either strop it on the sidewalk or chuck it in the trash can and buy another 3.99 gas station special. It's easier.

It's just like the car enthusiasts. They can't understand how someone could drive around in some plain jane Toyota when a Porsche is way better. The truth is they don't care. Few drivers are car nuts, they just want something to pick up the kids from school and take them to the soccer game on Saturday, and doesn't break down a lot. Same with knives. If the 3.99 gas station special works, the buyer is happy. And the truth is, the cheap no name stainless steel Chinese knife will work pretty well because the serrations will saw through most stuff he'll need to cut, just like the cheap serrated paring knives in the kitchen utility isle in the grocery store will work just fine on bread, vegetables and fruit. And the cheap serrated steak knives in most restaurants cut the steak because the serrations make even cheap steel viable. Aside from obsessed knife nuts wanting to show off their cult worship item of the day by using it at the table when theres a very functional steak knife there. But wheres the self glory in that?

When I was stationed in Europe, I was at Aviano Air base for some TDY with the engineers. I'd get home to my off base apartment in time to see all these Italian ladies getting ready to make dinner for the family. First thing they'd do is go out front and strop the old dark stained carbon steel kitchen knife on the stone steps. Some were some very old knives with worn down blades. Nothing fancy, just a cheap thin carbon steel blade butcher pattern and a couple wood slabs riveted on for a handle.

When the knife got too worn down to function, it got trashed and they spent a few lira and bought another one. If you mentioned spending a lot of money on a knife, they'd have thought you crazy. It wasn't on their radar or operation procedures. Their way had worked for them, their mothers, their grandmothers and all the way back to the Middle Ages. And their working husbands carry as cheap a knife as they can get by with of the same reason. Opinels Douk-Douks were designed to be cheap disposable work knives. Not cult worship items like some have made them and all knives.

The ugly truth is, aside from us obsessed knife addicts, most the world gets by very nice with cheap 3.99 gas station wonders because it doesn't matter. The cheap steel is still harder than most of what you go to cut. String, cardboard, meat, whatever. And if you want talk self defense, a lot of people have been killed by a piece of license plate material sharpened up on the cement floor of a cell, and some tape wrapped around the back end, and shoved in where it counts. A gas station knife is more than adequate to hurt someone very badly, as is a Stanley 99 for 6.99 down at Home Depot. It's only the knife snobs that think a knife has to cost a certain amount and certain xyz123 steel to be a real knife.

If Mark Hamon's character ever shows up with a Stanley 99, Home Depot will sell out by sunset the next day.
 
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You're more right than you know.

Who wants to peddle that garbage? The sales people for the rest of the human race who don't give a shite about knives but need one for whatever.

Look, we're the weird ones and the less than 1% of the worlds populace at large. We're the tiny fraction of the society that is obsessed with knives, and have raised an inanimate object to cult worship item status. We obsess over the knife like it was some kind of porn, and spend much more money on them than they are really worth. Is there anyone here who really thinks a 3.99 gas station special won't cut a piece of twine or open a package? Like the Bic pen that willing a cheap just as well as a high cost pen? In reality, there is actually very little need of a knife in modern urban life in the 21st century. And people who really do need a knife because of their job, just use in most cases a replaceable blade utility knife. In the last ten years, I haven't seen one single contractor who worked on our kitchen remodel, bathroom remodel, or other work use anything but a Husky, Stanley, Milwaukee or Super Knife replaceable blade utility knife. All the stock clerks at the stores I go to carry a replaceable blade utility knife in a belt holster.

We can go on and on about steel, but the Joe Average knife user just doesn't care. If it cuts he's happy. If doesn't, then he'll either strop it on the sidewalk or chuck it in the trash can and buy another 3.99 gas station special. It's easier.

It's just like the car enthusiasts. They can't understand how someone could drive around in some plain Jane Toyota when a Porsche is way better. The truth is they don't care. Few drivers are car nuts, they just want something to pick up the kids from school and take them to the soccer game on Saturday, and doesn't break down a lot. Same with knives. If the 3.99 gas station special works, the buyer is happy. And the truth is, the cheap no name stainless steel Chinese knife will work pretty well because the serrations will saw through most stuff he'll need to cut, just like the cheap serrated paring knives in the kitchen utility isle in the grocery store will work just fine on bread, vegetables and fruit. And the cheap serrated steak knives in most restaurants cut the steak because the serrations make even cheap steel viable. Aside from obsessed knife nuts wanting to show off their cult worship item of the day by using it at the table when theres a very functional steak knife there. But wheres the self glory in that?

When I was stationed in Europe, I was at Aviano Air base for some TDY with the engineers. I'd get home to my off base apartment in time to see all these Italian ladies getting ready to make dinner for the family. First thing they'd do is go out front and strop the old dark stained carbon steel kitchen knife on the stone steps. Some were some very old knives with worn down blades. Nothing fancy, just a cheap thin carbon steel blade butcher pattern and a couple wood slabs riveted on for a handle.

When the knife got too worn down to function, it got trashed and they spent a few lira and bought another one. If you mentioned spending a lot of money on a knife, they'd have thought you crazy. It wasn't on their radar or operation procedures. Their way had worked for them, their mothers, their grandmothers and all the way back to the Middle Ages. And their working husbands carry as cheap a knife as they can get by with of the same reason. Opinels Douk-Douks were designed to be cheap disposable work knives. Not cult worship items like some have made them and all knives.

The ugly truth is, aside from us obsessed knife addicts, most the world gets by very nice with cheap 3.99 gas station wonders because it doesn't matter. The cheap steel is still harder than most of what you go to cut. String, cardboard, meat, whatever. And if you want talk self defense, more people have been killed by a piece of license plate material sharpened up on the cement floor of a cell, and some tape wrapped apron the back end, and shoved in where it counts. A gas station knife is more than adequate to hurt someone very badly, as is a Stanley 99 for 6.99 down at Home Depot. It's only the knife snobs that think a knife has to cost a certain amount and certain xyz123 steel to be a real knife.

If Mark Hamon's character ever shows up with a Stanley 99, Home Depot will sell out by sunset the next day.
Whole lotta truth in there.
 
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