Fading popularity of traditional knives

You're more right than you know.

Who wants to peddle that garbage? The sales people for the rest of the human race who don't give a shite about knives but need one for whatever.

Look, we're the weird ones and the less than 1% of the worlds populace at large. We're the tiny fraction of the society that is obsessed with knives, and have raised an inanimate object to cult worship item status. We obsess over the knife like it was some kind of porn, and spend much more money on them than they are really worth. Is there anyone here who really thinks a 3.99 gas station special won't cut a piece of twine or open a package? Like the Bic pen that will sign a check just as well as a high cost pen? In reality, there is actually very little need of a knife in modern urban life in the 21st century. And people who really do need a knife because of their job, just use in most cases a replaceable blade utility knife. In the last ten years, I haven't seen one single contractor who worked on our kitchen remodel, bathroom remodel, or other work use anything but a Husky, Stanley, Milwaukee or Super Knife replaceable blade utility knife. All the stock clerks at the stores I go to carry a replaceable blade utility knife in a belt holster.

We can go on and on about steel, but the Joe Average knife user just doesn't care. If it cuts he's happy. If doesn't, then he'll either strop it on the sidewalk or chuck it in the trash can and buy another 3.99 gas station special. It's easier.

It's just like the car enthusiasts. They can't understand how someone could drive around in some plain jane Toyota when a Porsche is way better. The truth is they don't care. Few drivers are car nuts, they just want something to pick up the kids from school and take them to the soccer game on Saturday, and doesn't break down a lot. Same with knives. If the 3.99 gas station special works, the buyer is happy. And the truth is, the cheap no name stainless steel Chinese knife will work pretty well because the serrations will saw through most stuff he'll need to cut, just like the cheap serrated paring knives in the kitchen utility isle in the grocery store will work just fine on bread, vegetables and fruit. And the cheap serrated steak knives in most restaurants cut the steak because the serrations make even cheap steel viable. Aside from obsessed knife nuts wanting to show off their cult worship item of the day by using it at the table when theres a very functional steak knife there. But wheres the self glory in that?

When I was stationed in Europe, I was at Aviano Air base for some TDY with the engineers. I'd get home to my off base apartment in time to see all these Italian ladies getting ready to make dinner for the family. First thing they'd do is go out front and strop the old dark stained carbon steel kitchen knife on the stone steps. Some were some very old knives with worn down blades. Nothing fancy, just a cheap thin carbon steel blade butcher pattern and a couple wood slabs riveted on for a handle.

When the knife got too worn down to function, it got trashed and they spent a few lira and bought another one. If you mentioned spending a lot of money on a knife, they'd have thought you crazy. It wasn't on their radar or operation procedures. Their way had worked for them, their mothers, their grandmothers and all the way back to the Middle Ages. And their working husbands carry as cheap a knife as they can get by with of the same reason. Opinels Douk-Douks were designed to be cheap disposable work knives. Not cult worship items like some have made them and all knives.

The ugly truth is, aside from us obsessed knife addicts, most the world gets by very nice with cheap 3.99 gas station wonders because it doesn't matter. The cheap steel is still harder than most of what you go to cut. String, cardboard, meat, whatever. And if you want talk self defense, a lot of people have been killed by a piece of license plate material sharpened up on the cement floor of a cell, and some tape wrapped around the back end, and shoved in where it counts. A gas station knife is more than adequate to hurt someone very badly, as is a Stanley 99 for 6.99 down at Home Depot. It's only the knife snobs that think a knife has to cost a certain amount and certain xyz123 steel to be a real knife.

If Mark Hamon's character ever shows up with a Stanley 99, Home Depot will sell out by sunset the next day.

And what's most available, for the least money per cutting power, for those people, is a modern. We'll call those folks the unwashed masses and they buy probably half or more of knives sold.

I will mention an advantage of a modern. You get more knife for your money. A modern knife in mid range steel of decent quality can be had for less than a comparable Slipjoint. Actually, a mid range slip joint in decent steel of decent quality for a decent price is a little hard to find.
 
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If u show boated a peanut to any one u would get complements on a fine looking knife! Lol!

And some laughter from others... I think the point that someone made that it comes down to "preference not performance" is more right than wrong. Preference is the individual's perceived functional value of the tool to fit the intended use, but it also includes the aesthetic values and personalities of the individual.

For me a larger blade (3+ inches) that is easily deployed works best for the majority of things that I do but it doesn't do everything well. My needs include quick deployment, a sturdy blade with good ergonomics, and very good edge retention. Sharpening time/difficulty is not important to me. And I believe form should follow function although I like cool looking knives too.

Other have different priorities.
 
Ya, it did take a wide turn. It went from the traditional knife's place in the market place, to super steels vs carbon, to traditionals vs moderns, to knives as weapons. This is where I bow out of the conversation, knives as weapons is the modern folders realm.

Some folks look at knives a weapons first, personally its at least secondary to all other knife functions. If I wanted a knife to be a weapon first I would choose something like a Karambit.
 
A GEC knife made me go over to the other side.
It just cuts incredibly better than any of my modern folders.
I don't feel like forcing a wedge into cardboard.

If they start to make frame lock knives with that level of cutting ability, I would go back again.
But I don't see that coming any time soon.

I don't know if you've looked around but I've got two inexpensive American Kershaws with very thin slicer blades. They exist. And lets face it, any kind of lock that works is better than no lock. JMHO
 
Thanks, that's our current #1 choice. Somewhere outside of the blue zone of Austin.
Yeah, stay away from Austin. They've outlawed plastic bags, the homeless population is out of control (not like San Francisco, though!), and I went to a Starbucks there last year (dummy me, but they do have good coffee; always just order coffee, black--nothing added) with no separate restrooms for men and women. The hill country to the west of Austin is great. I like most of my home state. Especially San Antonio.
 
Yeah, stay away from Austin. They've outlawed plastic bags, the homeless population is out of control (not like San Francisco, though!), and I went to a Starbucks there last year (dummy me, but they do have good coffee; always just order coffee, black--nothing added) with no separate restrooms for men and women. The hill country to the west of Austin is great. I like most of my home state. Especially San Antonio.

Thanks for the advice but my wife will have to go to work in Austin once a week for a couple years before she retires too. We are looking 20-30 minutes outside Austin.

Looking forward to getting my first suppressor. Bwaaaahaahaha.
 
The ceo of BladeHQ is not a knife person. I'm sure lots of people there are knife enthusiasts, but I don't get the feeling that it's truly part of the culture. Plus it was definitely founded on modern knives and not traditionals.

I don't think that video is a good indicator of the general market.

My name is Mark and I am the CEO of Blade HQ. I would classify myself as a knife guy, but certainly, I don't know as much as many of you. We hire all sorts of people to fill all kinds of positions, but I would say those who are not into knives are in the minority. However, many of our employees carry lots of different knives, and on any given day I might have one of up to 30 different knives in my pocket. So it kind of depends on the day.

It's definitely true that we started this company selling modern folders, but we actually have tried to get to know the traditional market as well. I personally love GEC knives and find them to be some of the most attractive knives on the market today.
 
What do you think about fixed blades in this discussion? That hasnt been discussed much.

Love them. Then again, I like knives of all sorts.

There was a broad, sweeping generalization earlier in this thread that had me shaking my head.

Guns and martial arts rule self defense, a skilled person in either or both will make a knife useless.

Depends on the knife I suppose. Even with a cocked and loaded 1911 already in my hand, I would still hate to face someone carrying a proper bowie.

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The older I get (I'm 42) the more I find traditional knives appealing. In fact, I recent lost an auction on a lot of 16 very nice Fight'n Roosters that would have been a very nice start to a traditional collection.
 
I bought a case cv stockman a while back at the local camping/outdoor store very cheap on clearance. They no longer carry these knives. I can’t help but wonder if they don’t carry them because of the carbon steel.

I’m 40 years old, and any knife I had growing up was stainless. So, anyone in my age group or younger that’s not into knives may not know what carbon steel is. Imagine going to the store to get a knife to bring camping. You use it and throw it in with your camping stuff. Next time you go camping you pull it out and it’s all rusty. That could be a bad experience that retailers want to avoid.

I mostly use carbon steel now because I prefer it, but I think there are a lot of people out there that just buy a knife to use and don’t pay any attention to steel. Perhaps retailers are catering to that with less carbon steel and more stainless just to avoid problems/disappointment.
I was at the Zippo Case museum in Bradford a week ago Friday. A senior gentleman with a cane asked the young sales assistant why some of his Case knives had developed large black spots on them. I explained the stainless vs carbon steel blades and the sales assistant also rhymed in with the same explanation. He said he was a collector and had many knives (I think he said over 40) but apparently he was caught off guard by Cases's CV versions and was very frustrated on how they had aged.

So even some of the very old guys prefer stainless. It does take away some of the worries of just dropping the knife in a drawer and walking away for an extended time period.

Oh how we love our GEC stainless.

,,,Mike in Canada
 
I was at the Zippo Case museum in Bradford a week ago Friday. A senior gentleman with a cane asked the young sales assistant why some of his Case knives had developed large black spots on them. I explained the stainless vs carbon steel blades and the sales assistant also rhymed in with the same explanation. He said he was a collector and had many knives (I think he said over 40) but apparently he was caught off guard by Cases's CV versions and was very frustrated on how they had aged.

So even some of the very old guys prefer stainless. It does take away some of the worries of just dropping the knife in a drawer and walking away for an extended time period.

Oh how we love our GEC stainless.

,,,Mike in Canada
I suspect this senior gentleman didn't have carbon knives when he was young. My first scout knife (about 1970) discolored, but I didn't think anything of it. Just didn't want to see rust. Lots of pocketknives and fixed blades were carbon back then, and cut pretty well.
 
I don't see it coming ever. The problem is that you need a certain amount of surface area for the lock bar to engage securely and to leave room for some wear before the lock becomes loose. That means that the tang has to be thick. I suppose someone could use thick stock and grind the blade thin, but that costs time, money, material, and belts in a market that sees thicker blades as better somehow.

I agree 80%.
Since I saw Factor Bits, Bestech BT1705A, and Rike Hummingbird, I know that they can make thin blade (<0.1") frame lock knives at $100~$150.
I don't know how good they really are though (one review said the lock up is 100%).


There are some modern knives that can really cut, but most cant compete with traditionals. Huge, heavy folding prybars are the norm. Its a shame because I really like some moderns. The few that are made to really cut can be incredible! I have a Benchmade Presidio Ultra that I love because its got a deep hollow grind on the blade, which I dont see much in modern knives, and it can cut like few knives can. Just one example. So they arent all bad obviously, and they have their place.

The only (frame/liner lock) knife I have, which can compete with traditionals, is Boker Exskelibur I.
But, as you said, it is rare to see this type of knife in the current market, sadly.
 
Well, I must observe that the old gent with the cane being dumbfounded by carbon steel developing rust spots must be a total novice to the knife collecting habit....:rolleyes: Probably somebody taking up new hobbies to fill up time..;) I like stainless a lot and would certainly enjoy seeing more modern steels available on Traditional patterns, carbon has its virtues but it is not some article of faith.:D

Lot of talk here about gas station knives, here in my part of Europe, petrol (gas) stations are becoming a rarity, nearly all are automated pumps with no shop (or toilets damnit!) so that part of retailing may well soon disappear in the US too. Don't tell me you still have people filling your tanks and checking the oil/water/air for you?:D Paradise lost.

I'm disturbed to read about knives as weapons here in Traditionals, fixed blades certainly might be but I don't associate old time knives with weaponry somehow. A lot of the recent anti knife prejudice-global I'm afraid - may stem from the look of some Moderns and glib talk about self defence. It seems as if the English language itself has changed in that the word 'carrying a knife' seems to equate with violence and criminal intentions in many peoples' minds, this is the media's doing but is is greatly disturbing for all knife fans great & small, Ancient & Modern:thumbsup:

Started carrying the CRKT Ripple again today, it's a thin, light knife with a very tolerable slicing blade not unlike many slip joints but in a modern Chinese steel. Nor is it big and it has a small clip, useful you say and assisted opening, not bad. Not quite...:D I'd forgotten that it's unpleasant to sit down with it clipped in your trouser pocket:eek: I keep it extreme left in the pocket to prevent accidental opening, a terrifying prospect:eek: The clip is small but very heavy sprung so putting it on and off is not so easy..:rolleyes: and as another poster mentioned, you could scratch up your car pretty nastily too without noticing... So it's returned to the desk top as ornament and plaything:D
 
My name is Mark and I am the CEO of Blade HQ. I would classify myself as a knife guy, but certainly, I don't know as much as many of you. We hire all sorts of people to fill all kinds of positions, but I would say those who are not into knives are in the minority. However, many of our employees carry lots of different knives, and on any given day I might have one of up to 30 different knives in my pocket. So it kind of depends on the day.

It's definitely true that we started this company selling modern folders, but we actually have tried to get to know the traditional market as well. I personally love GEC knives and find them to be some of the most attractive knives on the market today.
Thanks for weighing in Mark, this is a nice surprise!
 
The traditional knife hobby seems to draw some striking parallels to one of my other hobbies which is bourbon. Bourbon had been in decline for years and there was a glut of it on the market, lots of good stuff to be had for very reasonable prices. Enter hipsters, whom seeing craft beer as now too mainstream have moved into bourbon and suddenly it’s the “new” cool thing. The market is booming creating shortages due to low aging stocks from the previous glut and huge demand and now crazy secondary prices. Now let’s look at the traditional market, it too has been in decline for years and now there seems to be a bit of resurgence, the shortages of GECs and inflated secondary markets strongly mirror the bourbon market. Are hipsters to blame? I believe so, they ruin everything but you can draw your own conclusions. However, I see a silver lining to both hobbies, the market will (and has in the case of bourbon) take off trying to keep up with this new demand. Eventually it will become too mainstream and the bottom will drop out and we will once again be in a glut of fantastic product at great prices. Unfortunately, there will be some collateral damage and we will likely lose some great companies in the process.

Anyways, that was my long winded way of saying I believe traditionals are on a short term (in the grand scheme of things) upswing and the market will scramble to keep up. And we, as true collectors, will benefit when this swing trends down. I think we are seeing this with CSC rising from the ashes and I don’t think we’ve seen the last of Queen/S&M.
 
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