Fair or not

[10after10]

smuiradise I think it's only fair that you know that L longbow started this thread.

 

[AndreLinoge]

"....from the maker...." and "....from the factory..." mean very specific things to some folks.
I would never assume a 'custom' anything came from a factory in the knife world. Also, I see 'maker' and the word means absolutely nothing to me re custom vs production.

We live and operate in this word centric environment, but the words used have no standard.

For instance, the 'custom' knives that people buy (that they didnt order) off a maker's table at a show that are all the same model, same cnc file even, with different colors and finishes... Not custom knives to me. Nobody had a say in anything about those knives before they bought them, they are a standard pattern for the maker, and they are small batch production knives. Period. There are people that would argue that all day, simply because of the social connotation of the word 'custom' in their circles and their desire to elevate themselves in any way possible in those circles: they wouldn't be caught DEAD with a mere PRODUCTION knife, so they will call that example given a custom knife to protect their ego.
Words, man.. they dumb. Be sure of whether or not your definition of those trigger words mates up with the folks thar writ em before you make any decision based on the assumed meaning of a word.

 

[smuiradise]

Hi guys, seller here. I do my best to be accurate and honest in my sales threads and while I don’t feel I misrepresented the knife at all, I do understand how the phrase “from the maker” could have caused some confusion and for that I apologize to the buyer. I appreciate all the feedback in the thread.

 

[JJHollowman]

"Predigree" IS confusing. Nobody needs to know where I bought it, who from, or what I paid unless I decide to include that info. What if a knife has been through 6 sellers but is still perfect? Telling a buyer that is a good way to jinx a sale, for no good reason.

 

[longbow]

So reading through the posts here and realizing I created a hornets nest of a situation for myself and how I purchased the knife. But the more I think about my situation I think the origin of the knife, like the pedigree should have been included. I mean the knife has a COA, which I assume means certificate of authenticity, but might be wrong on that. So I ask myself if it has a certificate of authenticity, its authentic to what? It ain't a Berg, its a WE production version. Also the maker states it is a WE production model on his web site. Major retailers in the knife game most often state that a copy of a popular model is a copy in the advertising for that particular item and of course it is usually stamped in manufacturing.

I see most sellers/traders here on the forums and makers too, describe the products in as fine of detail as possible as to overall condition and any use etc. the item may have seen and usually ownership history if known. Anyways as the end customer in the transaction and the person who has the final say in the product and transaction I think WE should have been mentioned. Or production version of the popular Iron Pup folder. Its a slippery slope here. I mean could I sell this knife and list it as a Berg folder some where else? Obviously not here! There is no indication anywhere on the knife that it is a Chinese production knife at least that I can see. Am I being dishonest in doing so? I can't believe the seller didn't realize he didn't mention WE in his ad to sell the knife. As for a bargain I thought I was getting, I thought 225 bucks was a good bit of money for a small folder especially being the second owner. So there ya go

 

[craytab]

So reading through the posts here and realizing I created a hornets nest of a situation for myself and how I purchased the knife. But the more I think about my situation I think the origin of the knife, like the pedigree should have been included. I mean the knife has a COA, which I assume means certificate of authenticity, but might be wrong on that. So I ask myself if it has a certificate of authenticity, its authentic to what? It ain't a Berg, its a WE production version. Also the maker states it is a WE production model on his web site. Major retailers in the knife game most often state that a copy of a popular model is a copy in the advertising for that particular item and of course it is usually stamped in manufacturing.

I see most sellers/traders here on the forums and makers too, describe the products in as fine of detail as possible as to overall condition and any use etc. the item may have seen and usually ownership history if known. Anyways as the end customer in the transaction and the person who has the final say in the product and transaction I think WE should have been mentioned. Or production version of the popular Iron Pup folder. Its a slippery slope here. I mean could I sell this knife and list it as a Berg folder some where else? Obviously not here! There is no indication anywhere on the knife that it is a Chinese production knife at least that I can see. Am I being dishonest in doing so? I can't believe the seller didn't realize he didn't mention WE in his ad to sell the knife. As for a bargain I thought I was getting, I thought 225 bucks was a good bit of money for a small folder especially being the second owner. So there ya go

Still not getting it.

You thought you were buying a custom knife in the production section?

5 seconds and you could have brought up the manufacturer website. We is highlighted in yellow as the maker.

Time to give this a rest.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

So reading through the posts here and realizing I created a hornets nest of a situation for myself and how I purchased the knife. But the more I think about my situation I think the origin of the knife, like the pedigree should have been included. I mean the knife has a COA, which I assume means certificate of authenticity, but might be wrong on that. So I ask myself if it has a certificate of authenticity, its authentic to what? It ain't a Berg, its a WE production version. Also the maker states it is a WE production model on his web site. Major retailers in the knife game most often state that a copy of a popular model is a copy in the advertising for that particular item and of course it is usually stamped in manufacturing.

I see most sellers/traders here on the forums and makers too, describe the products in as fine of detail as possible as to overall condition and any use etc. the item may have seen and usually ownership history if known. Anyways as the end customer in the transaction and the person who has the final say in the product and transaction I think WE should have been mentioned. Or production version of the popular Iron Pup folder. Its a slippery slope here. I mean could I sell this knife and list it as a Berg folder some where else? Obviously not here! There is no indication anywhere on the knife that it is a Chinese production knife at least that I can see. Am I being dishonest in doing so? I can't believe the seller didn't realize he didn't mention WE in his ad to sell the knife. As for a bargain I thought I was getting, I thought 225 bucks was a good bit of money for a small folder especially being the second owner. So there ya go

You have been here since 1999 and have at more than 70 transaction under your belt, yet don't realize that $225 is a very rare price for a custom folder or that a knife listed in the production for sale sub forum is likely a production-come on now.

Granted the mid techs are muddying things up a bit much like regrinds, but in this case you should not have had a problem or at least asked ?'s. All the signs were there that this was a production even if not specifically pointed out in the ad. Time to admit your fault., no big loss and do better in the future.

So, other than it not being a custom at a steal, How do you like the knife?

 

[10after10]

I see most sellers/traders here on the forums and makers too, describe the products in as fine of detail as possible as to overall condition and any use etc. the item may have seen and usually ownership history if known.

"Most"? That's debatable. And I definitely don't usually see ownership history disclosed, whether known or not. I've seen many many posts here that list the knife and a price.....and that's it. But, that's getting off the subject. Again, did you see or know that the knife was listed in Production Folders??

5 seconds and you could have brought up the manufacturer website. We is highlighted in yellow as the maker.

Time to give this a rest.

Literally five seconds.

You said you don't Google everything you buy, well that's on you when you are buying any used or preowned product on any forum in a transaction between two individuals.

So, other than it not being a custom at a steal, How do you like the knife?

"Happy as a pig in poop" until a couple of weeks after purchasing that he discovered it was not a custom. See original post.

 

[u812]

This is just me, but when I am shopping the Exchange, I generally have a good idea of what I am looking for. If something does catch my eye, I research it if I’m not familiar with it. If it’s gone by the time I’m done, so be it.

The knife was listed in the correct forum and doesn’t seem mis-represented to me. I’m not familiar with the maker/brand and might be missing something?

^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^
With all the production,midtechs and customs from old and new makers I really have to research stuff these days. If the knife is the one from the above thread I do not see anything misleading in it. It is one that I would have had to research. Great looking blade though.

 

[10after10]

Provenance, not pedigree.

 

[u812]

from maker or from factory could mean totally different things depending on the company that made it. Spyderco,Benchmade, and many others from the maker or from the factory is exactly the same thing. That could get more confusing if you are talking about a company that does have productions and customs from the same place such as Hinderer,Emerson,Microtech and I am sure several others. Even then maker and factory could mean the same. More accurate to use the words custom or production in the description. Still with all that said research and asking the seller a couple questions can easily clear all that up.

 

[longbow]

I have said I should have checked it out a bit more cause frankly as stated I didn't research it all just saw it, liked it and bought it. I see many sellers/traders going to extremes to describe a knife, use, non use, marks, where it came from, owner ship possession etc.etc. I actually didn't think it wasn't a handmade by Berg. I ain't kiddin when I say that either. It just didn't cross my mind it wasn't. I am also not to familiar with his products and honestly had never heard of him. Now I have and good on y'all for that.

I have been on a fixed blade kick for the past year or so especially knives with stag handles. So haven't been researching folders and such nor keeping up on what is what. I've seen handmade folders listed in the prod. sub forum before. I also agree this is beating a dead friggin horse and in hind sight I shouldn't have started the thread like I did nor the debate cause apparently many of you get twisted up about what is what and whom should have read what and when etc. ME INCLUDED! In this case you are all probably correct, buyer be aware of what you are getting and such.

Now how do I like the knife, truthfully it is a decent folder, especially for a flipper. A wee bit small but I usually mate it with a small fixed blade. The only gripes I have is it wasn't listed as a WE knife as we all know, and the blade keeps wandering off center when flipped towards the non lock side. It is a pain to keep adjusting it but it is what it is. The pivot adjustment keeps loosening but will remedy when I get frustrated with tightening it.

Probably time to shut this thread down and thanks for all the input. Like I said debate is good and this didn't come to mud slinging and name calling.

Provenance is the correct term too.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

The pivot adjustment keeps loosening but will remedy when I get frustrated with tightening it.

a little Teflon tape on the pivot screw should remedy that

 

[u812]

Blue locktite. The only knives I do not use it on are Sebenzas.

 

[10after10]

I've read through all three pages of this thread again, and frankly, I don't see any "mud slinging" or "name calling". Only folks stating their opinion on this particular subject, mostly in a respectful manner. Pointedly, but respectfully. To me, still implying smuiradise did anything intentionally to mislead is not cool.

As for a bargain I thought I was getting, I thought 225 bucks was a good bit of money for a small folder especially being the second owner. So there ya go

Have you seen the current asking prices for a Spyderco Leafstorm? A small, discontinued production folder.

 

[longbow]

Don't own Spyderco knives and probably won't. Never said anything about name calling etc. I also contacted the seller and he knows how I feel and we agreed to disagree and I also stated that intent imho is 99% of anything and I believe he had no intent to make any one think they weren't getting what they were buying. That I believe. So I think trying to imply that I did other wise "is not cool". So I say again probably time to shut this down or not. Doesn't matter at this point and I will be more careful when purchasing off the forums in the future, my lesson has been learned.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I think a seller is responsible for disclosing information of the knife ... it's use or non use ... it's condition HONESTLY ... what it comes with if anything ie. the box and orginal paperwork etc ... which it seems the seller did ...

but I also believe a buyer should know the product they are buying at the very least enough to know the model and if it is a production or custom .... and if I'm understanding correctly the buyer bought the knife from the production for sale subforum and not the customs for sale sunbforum?

if that is the case then the buyer needs to learn the lesson here and learn to research knives you are interested in if you aren't familiar with it.

now I am a bit old school in a deal isn't done until both parties are happy ... but in this case I would say the buyer should be responsible for any shipping charges or PP fees the seller payed out and to return the knife for a refund ... if the seller is willing to do that.

And the buyer a lesson learned at a small monetary cost. Just my two cents worth. Hope it works out.

JJ

 

[u812]

I've read through all three pages of this thread again, and frankly, I don't see any "mud slinging" or "name calling". Only folks stating their opinion on this particular subject, mostly in a respectful manner. Pointedly, but respectfully. To me, still implying smuiradise did anything intentionally to mislead is not cool.



Have you seen the current asking prices for a Spyderco Leafstorm? A small, discontinued production folder.

Prices in the knife world has gotten really inflated IMO. Seems many productions are selling for as much as midtechs and customs lately. If the link to this sale is the right one I would not have thought 225.00 would have been anywhere near right for a custom from the maker. There is a production knife I am wanting right now but IMO the price is 50% more than it should be so I am holding off.

 

[Andy the Aussie]

accurate descriptions of a knife for sale are of course important, a must even, just as important is the other half of the deal, the purchaser MUST also familiarise themselves with the product being purchased to ensure that 1) the description IS accurate and 2) they know what they are getting. If, for example, I wish to list a $20SAK for $200 and someone assumes this is a good price and snaps it up, who is in the wrong, the seller accurately describing the knife and adding the price they want for it or the person mistaking this for "a deal" and grabbing it up...lots pf variables there I know. In this case it is clear that the seller correctly described and priced the knife and the buyer bought it based on that description making some assumptions of their own in the process. No fault of the seller in this instance.

The poll, as noted, in this case is somewhat confusing as the correct answer is yes and in the case of this matter it would appear they did.