Fasting, Starvation, & Survival

It realy is amazing how tough is the human body and the things we can accomplish. Same time under some condition our bodys can break like a twig. Alot of it has to do with skils and luck. Evolute Thats is an amazing thing you done under the best of conditions..

Sasha
 
Of course, I did this in the warm Summer, and I also did it when I didn't need to do all of the physical exertion involved with wilderness survival.

And there is the rub...

Food is not generally an immediate priority, but it is indeed important. Eat when you can.

While observing calorie restricted students in survival training programs, I have noticed that some people's reactions are much more dramatic and negative than others. One of the most suprising is the APATHY some people fall into after missing a few meals... they become worthless. This is probably a blood sugar issue.
 
Horse said:
And there is the rub...

Food is not generally an immediate priority, but it is indeed important. Eat when you can.

While observing calorie restricted students in survival training programs, I have noticed that some people's reactions are much more dramatic and negative than others. One of the most suprising is the APATHY some people fall into after missing a few meals... they become worthless. This is probably a blood sugar issue.
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I can really attest to this. I'm not a diabetic or anything (as far as I know) but if I'm working hard and dont have anything to eat I can feel bloodsugar depleting, I get lethargic and apathy sets it, it makes every action a struggle. I can still drive my body to work through it, but I cant will my brain to stay sharp.
 
I don't have any experience fasting. However, I have spent a few nights in the out of doors. A few years ago, a friend of mine and I went elk hunting in Colorado. Over 5 days I ate no less than 3500 calories per day and lost 12 lbs, and I was at 5% body fat before the trip. Activity level has a lot to do with dietary requirements.

That friend of mine gets cranky and irritable when he hasn't eaten in a few hours. We worked together and I could always tell when it was time for lunch by his mood.
 
Evolute said:
(for reasons I won't explain, here, so don't ask), I went for a little over two months almost entirely without food.
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Sorry - didn't mean to pry, I missed that in the first post - I should read more slowly and carefully.

Evolute said:
Of course, I did this in the warm Summer, and I also did it when I didn't need to do all of the physical exertion involved with wilderness survival.
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While I agree with you wholeheartedly that starvation is an excellent survival strategy (indeed we are probably very good at it given the evolutionary experiences of our ancestors following large game herds and periodically starving), one of the keys to successful starvation (besides, as KGD pointed out, some minimal intake of carbs) is a fire and a way to collect fuel (knife, saw, axe). If your environment is sucking calories out of you from physical exertion or low temperatures faster than you can replace it, then eventually the deficit will catch up to you. I've always believed fire allowed our ancestors to colonize the planet because they could spend weeks and months starving around a campfire. If they had been without the ability to access BTUs by burning wood then they would have eventually succumbed and never migrated from the equatorial regions. Entropy is entropy - the calories to support life have to come from somewhere whether it's a fire or food.

Anyways, glad you made it out to the other side of your experience. I'm sure you're stronger for it :thumbup:
 
I am a big guy about 25 pounds over weight and 280 and 6 feet. I have been as low as 170 when I was homeless and living on the street and i found after about the third day hunger is not painful at all. Really the first day is the hardest because we are so trained to eat when we feel the slightest pang. I don't think it is as much hunger as habit. For example try to not flush the toilet. It is habit and harder than you imagine.

I have to reduce my calories without letting my body kick in that starvation reduced energy cycle if I want to ose weight and that I find is harder than fasting because
you are always hungry and never (hopefully) past the stage where it is bothersome.

I also found after about 3 days of sleep everything gets really harsh and jarring. Light is brighter but good food with lots of carbs really has a much bigger energy boost than when you have had enough sleep.

I don't eat processed or junk foods but i do eat a lot of cream ,butter and sugar. As well as meat especially beef and chicken and wild game. I have reduced my meat and increased my veggies and complex carbs but I am so addicted to sugar and lipids(fat)
that i have to wean myself down.

I have also found it easier to control my eating when I get motre excersize which seems counter intuitive.
 
"While I agree with you wholeheartedly that starvation is an excellent survival strategy "

??????
 
I'm amazed at how many people here have fasted for extended periods. The longest I've done is about 30 hours. That was a bit unpleasant, but not too bad. I was just sitting around the house though. It is hard to imagine doing my daily routine now without eating normally. Thanks for the interesting thread all.
 
Damn Evolute,

Thanks for sharing the knowledge of what the human body can do.

I guess my body would survive a little longer than you in the wild since I'm about 10-15 lbs over what I should be :o. I'm 5'8" and about 180lbs. I'm supposed to be about 150~170.

I don't believe I could willingly starve myself that long, but it's good to know that I should be able to sustain myself with my fat reserves :D. The longest I've gone without food is probably when I go fishing all day or in high school when playing xbox ate up all of my time (pun intended). Like the other guys said, if you keep busy you don't notice that you are hungry, or your body gets used to it.
 
Evolute said:
We all need food to survive.

Over this Summer (for reasons I won't explain, here, so don't ask), I went for a little over two months almost entirely without food. For more than five weeks, I ate nothing at all. For several more weeks, I ate an average of less than 100 calories per day.
...

One thing I've learned from this, from an emergency wilderness survival perspective: I've always considered fishing/hunting/trapping gear to be relatively unimportant for short term survival situations, but now I think it has no importance, whatsoever (except for secondary uses, such as using fishing line to repair clothes).
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My first guess was going to be Ranger School, but then you said you didn't exert yourself much. Suffice to say that tens of thousands of people have had similar experiences (combat, Ranger, SF, Sere and various spiritual or health related reasons) and survived. Millions is probably closer to the truth. In fact, for much of the world, this is their daily existence. Food comes sometimes, who knows when.

To the Quarterpounder Scarfing Masses who think they will die within a few days if they don't find a drivethough or a powerbar tree, you are probably preaching to deaf ears.

Water is a survival priority. Food, isn't. I'll get some when I can. In this way, I think those of you who've never been in the military are really at a disadvantage. You simply haven't pushed yourselves beyond the limits of discomfort in the past in order to see that you can do far, far more than you think you can. Feeling hungry is simply a stimulus. A never quit attitude is more important than the power bars you guys stuff in every pocket.
 
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nemoaz said:
Water is a survival priority. Food, isn't.
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Food is a survival priority. Below water, but a priority nonetheless.

nemoaz said:
In this way, I think those of you who've never been in the military are really at a disadvantage. You simply haven't pushed yourselves beyond the limits of discomfort in the past in order to see that you can do far, far more than you think you can.
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I don't agree with that. There are far more careers/experiences than just the military that test the endurance of the human body and mind.

nemoaz said:
Feeling hungry is simply a stimulus. A never quit attitude is more important than the power bars you guys stuff in every pocket.
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Mentality is everything. Thinking like a SURVIVOR rather than a VICTIM can mean the difference between life and death. Keeping up morale of yourself and those with you is a priority in a survival situation.

As I stated before, to disregard Evolute's experience is to do yourself a disservice. Any and all education gained from another's experience is valuable and can help if someone finds themselves in a survival situation, as well as in day to day life. It can be used as a helpful confidence builder.

Preparedness is also a valuable trait in a survival situation. The "tough guy" attitude above or the "I was in the military so I don't need to plan ahead" can get you killed. I'd rather be prepared with food of some sort than think like that and wish i had something to eat when I really needed it.
 
Again, Pete is right on.

A few points of clarification about the conversation, so far:

1) Extrapolating from how hungry you feel after 5 or 10 hours without food to the experience of extended fasting/starvation is not sound thinking; that's not the way it is.

2) While I was certainly not engaged in the kinds of activities required for emergency wilderness survival, keep in mind that I did continue to perform my job (nature photographer) during this period, which most would probably consider moderately strenuous... frequent semi-primitive camping, hiking at least several miles per day in wild terrain, carrying a heavy load of camera gear, etc.

3) In regard to the mental effects: it is hard to separate how I was mentally affected by starving from how I was mentally affected by sleep deprivation during the same time. I definitely became deranged. Nonetheless, on some level, this does not seem to have mentally impaired my functioning much at all during that time. I continued to perform my job as nature photographer, and the quality of my photography was, to my great surprise, no weaker at all than my photography under more ordinary circumstances.
 
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Pete1977 said:
Mentality is everything. Thinking like a SURVIVOR rather than a VICTIM can mean the difference between life and death. Keeping up morale of yourself and those with you is a priority in a survival situation.
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Agreed completely. Mindset is first and foremost.

Preparedness is also a valuable trait in a survival situation. The "tough guy" attitude above or the "I was in the military so I don't need to plan ahead" can get you killed. I'd rather be prepared with food of some sort than think like that and wish i had something to eat when I really needed it.
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That isn't AT ALL what I said. I spend a lot of time in the field even today and carry a good deal of equipment. Most things that are really important, are carried in multiples, for instance I usually have 3 or 4 compasses and a GPS, multiple methods of fire, including a few flares when it gets really cold here in Upper Pen of Michigan (falling through the ice is a serious possibility at times), spare gloves, socks, hat etc almost anytime I'm in the field. I do carry comfort food, but I KNOW it is comfort food.

I see guys who think they know what their doing with little survival kits that include enough fishing supplies to equip a dozen men yet no space blanket (or bivvy bag/poncho liner, blanket etc), no poncho/tarp/garbage bag, no canteen, or no methods of water purification beyond starting a fire with a flint and boiling water (out of a wooden bowl, turtle shell, hat, hole in the dirt?). Little fishing kits look cool, but fishing or foraging for food isn't nearly as important as multiple ways to make fire, shelter and water.

I hate to rely on hollywood, but how many of you would have been trying to trap a squirrel instead of sitting by that ready-made signal fire when the only search plane flew over like in the movie The Edge? Did it even register in your mind that they were committing a potentially fatal mistake? It was the worst mistake the made IMO.

Food isn't a priority for weeks and don't you forget it, soldiers or survivors.
 
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Job-related stress over the course of several months and an inevitable job change last month caused me to have stress-induced irratable bowel syndrome. I started out at 168 lbs and dropped to 148, at which I have "leveled off" and am holding quite easily. I am 5'11". The IBS still plagues me, but not nearly to the extent it did. Stress can be a magical weight-loss tool. So can be cutting one's beer intake, but that's another thread...

Professor.
 
nemoaz said:
Agreed completely. Mindset is first and foremost...

I do carry comfort food, but I KNOW it is comfort food...

...but fishing or foraging for food isn't nearly as important as multiple ways to make fire, shelter and water.

I hate to rely on hollywood, but how many of you would have been trying to trap a squirrel instead of sitting by that ready-made signal fire when the only search plane flew over like in the movie The Edge? Did it even register in your mind that they were committing a potentially fatal mistake? It was the worst mistake the made IMO.

Food isn't a priority for weeks and don't you forget it, soldiers or survivors.
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Aside from a meal increasing morale, food gives you strength. In certain situations you may need that strength to get to safety, instead of waiting for someone to find you.

I don't totally disagree with your points and they are valid ones to make. I think that you are correct in the statement that there are other priorities in a survival situation beside finding food. Shelter (including fire) and water are greater priorities but food should not be considered weeks later.

In your example from "The Edge" while it's been a while since I've seen the movie, per the example, if they had had food, they would not have needed to trap an animal, and thereby would have been able to remain at the signal fire.


nemoaz said:
That isn't AT ALL what I said.
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My comment was in regards to this comment of yours:

nemoaz said:
I think those of you who've never been in the military are really at a disadvantage. You simply haven't pushed yourselves beyond the limits of discomfort in the past...
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That's a pretty blanket statement to make and completely inaccurate. I don't agree that in order to know your limits you need to have been in the military. Broad statements and singular mindsets like that are what gets people killed in survival situations.

People buying into an idea like that can end up second guessing themselves and their training or knowlege and can possibly make a dangerous situation potentially more-so. That is the same as buying all the tactical hype gear that is advertised as what the military uses or operators or whatever the catch phrase is today. To borrow a cliche its not the tools, its the ability to use them.
 
I haven't read all the posts in this thread so sorry if this has been said already but...
I my science teacher told me recently about an experiment that was done, said that people (I think he said they used mice for the experiment?) were healthier and had more energy when they ate only 1/3 of what they should.
very interesting.
It's a shame I eat like a freaking cow...
:D
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930436

The Minnesota Starvation Experiment, as it was later known, was a grueling study meant to gain insight into the physical and psychologic effects of semistarvation and the problem of refeeding civilians who had been starved during the war. During the experiment, the participants were subjected to semistarvation in which most lost >25% of their weight, and many experienced anemia, fatigue, apathy, extreme weakness, irritability, neurological deficits, and lower extremity edema.
 
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