Feds ban Assisted openers and Flick knives

[Critter]

I got the same impression because they are repealing a case where they determined that having a detent disqualified the knife from being a switchblade since it was discouraging opening from inertia.

Is the real reason for why they are doing this and why they are doing it now known? And this question is specifically for Mr. Ritter.

Nobody is sure why this occurred except that responsibility for this issue was recently transferred from one section of Customs that traditionally has dealt with the issue to another section. Beyond that, anything else is total speculation and we are not going tgo waste time or effort on that, because it doesn't help matters. If we turn up some factual answers to those questions, we will certianly pass it along and adjust any response as necessary.

It doesn't matter how or why at this juncture. That is irrelevant at the moment. There is only one question that matters right now, what do we do about it? Knife Rights, along with AKTI and the major manufacturers, is working on the answer to that critical question. We are working with experts in the rulkemaking process to ensure we get this right. We will communicate to you as soon as we have formulated a response, coordinated with the others, that will have the best chance of success.

Again, please don't go off and write Customs, or your Senetor or Congressman. Please have pataince and allow us to help you do that most effectively. This is way too important to screw up.

(Please note that I will be offline most of today. Life goes on even in the midst of a crisis, we can't just stop everything esle )

 

[Anrkst6973]

I disagree..Even knives like Spydies or CS's big 50's "switchblade looking" ones altho not spring assisted are designed to be one handed openers. they are single edged but their legal to posses status or send over state lines is now left in the hands of DHS or some Customs person who can deem them illeagel or not suitable for any legitimate purpose and thus confiscate them. I would hate to send 200 or 300 dollars to a company and then have my goods snagged by some weniee who says they are contraband. in which case the company has no reason to refund my money and my knives go to the incinerator or in some customs guys pocket! This needs to be fought fellows and overturned or struck down. otherwise we will suffer and the knife companys will suffer and those bent on evil doings will just go on having "switches" and big pig stickers to poke us with because they are criminals and dont obey laws anyway!

 

[p_mcmanis]

If we turn up some factual answers to those questions, we will certianly pass it along and adjust any response as necessary.

Thats all Im asking for.

I realize that its not the most important question to be answered right now but I respectfully disagree that its not relevant. I am not looking to point any fingers, just to understand fully what is going on.

 

[5.56]

5.56, I don't think you are right(wish you were). I read the whole thing and they are looking to include inertia opening as a part of it.

I interpreted their definition of "inertia" to be separate from "human manipulation" or flicking. Their defeinition of "inertia" involves some sort of spring assist.

Read the underlined portions.

CUSTOMS BULLETIN AND DECISIONS, VOL. 43, NO. 21, MAY 22, 2009

We therefore find that knives with spring-assisted opening mechanisms
that require minimal ‘‘human manipulation’’ in order to instantly spring the
blades to the fully open and locked position cannot be considered to have a
primary utilitarian purpose; such articles function as prohibited switchblade
knives as defined by the relevant statute and regulations.
We note that other than a bald assertion that the knives at issue are for a
primary utilitarian purpose (you stated that the knife is of standard construction
and has a single-edged, utilitarian blade’’), no evidence substantiating
that claim was presented. The knife at issue can be instantly opened
into the fully locked and ready position with one hand, simply by pushing on
the thumb tab on the blade. Although the knife is marketed as a ‘‘release assist’’
model, it nevertheless opens via human manipulation and inertia. See
Taylor, supra. It is based upon this analysis and these factual observations
that we conclude that the knife at issue is a switchblade prohibited from importation
into the United States.

 

[spidyman]

So for now its only on importation/transportation. I looks like BM, Buck, ZT, Kershaw might get out of this unscathed as all of their AO's are produced in the states, no imporatation necessary.

1. DHS does not regulate interstate commerce
2. This is a proposal, not yet Law
3. DHS does NOT make Law
4. There is clear case law for at leat 10 years in many jurisdictions and courts that would have to be overturned before DHS could legall enforce such a proposition
5. Public oposition is great- making it known to the general public is the first key, second is getting it to the right leagalees in a quick and effective manner to squash it.

Its a loop hole that has been closing for years, the real issuse is that people need to lobby their congress person to repeal the switchblade act, as it is unconstitutional- but is something that most have an 'it doen't affect me' attitude.

Like every one has been pleading in the industry DO NOt overreact, there is still alot of gray area and unanswered question that need answers before we can respond. A large unified reaction is best versus individual pooly written and mis-guided letters. This is something that as a COMMUNITY we need to stomp on with both feet in a unified and universal language.

 

[jkarp_53]

So for now its only on importation/transportation. I looks like BM, Buck, ZT, Kershaw might get out of this unscathed as all of their AO's are produced in the states, no imporatation necessary.

1. DHS does not regulate interstate commerce
2. This is a proposal, not yet Law
3. DHS does NOT make Law
4. There is clear case law for at leat 10 years in many jurisdictions and courts that would have to be overturned before DHS could legall enforce such a proposition
5. Public oposition is great- making it known to the general public is the first key, second is getting it to the right leagalees in a quick and effective manner to squash it.

Its a loop hole that has been closing for years, the real issuse is that people need to lobby their congress person to repeal the switchblade act, as it is unconstitutional- but is something that most have an 'it doen't affect me' attitude.

Like every one has been pleading in the industry DO NOt overreact, there is still alot of gray area and unanswered question that need answers before we can respond. A large unified reaction is best versus individual pooly written and mis-guided letters. This is something that as a COMMUNITY we need to stomp on with both feet in a unified and universal language.

Well said Brother. Thanks...!

 

[SpyderNoir_JHA]

I interpreted their definition of "inertia" to be separate from "human manipulation" or flicking. Their defeinition of "inertia" involves some sort of spring assist.

Read the underlined portions.

That was my initial hope, as well. Unfortunately, I think that the reasoning espoused by CBP requires only a small step to reach the conclusion that even non spring-assisted knives that may be opened using inertia are prohibited switchblades. If you are able to locate the ruling NY H81084, you will notice that CBP identifies eighteen knives as switchblades, even though only two of them have springs.

 

[pppiggg]

Our voice and knife rights should be heard and respected. If fed outlaw the assisted opening knives today, someday our liner lock or any knives with some sort of one hand opening mechanism will also deem as switchblades soon. This is just ridiculous.

 

[oli]

NEW RULING / REVERSAL 4/30/09

We therefore conclude, in consideration of the authorities and sources Switchblade Knife Act and implementing regulations, that the knives with spring-and release- assisted opening mechanisms, that such knives are described and prohibited
by 15 U.S.C. § 1241(b)(2) and 19 CFR Part 12.95(a)(1).

.

Authorities AND Sources???? Are they simply refering to the Act or some other "referee" that they do not want to disclose as a "sources"?

 

[Caffeinepirate]

It would be nice if the NRA took up our cause on this . . . those guys would easily kill this proposition with their lobbying juggernaut. It's in their interest to fight this, because tightening up knife laws might wet their appetite for restricting firearms.

 

[Samael]

The NRA is frequently asked to get involved with knife issues, as well as gun issues in other countries. It's their considered opinion that the gun fight in America is a full-time job. Can't really argue with that.

 

[Josh K]

It would be nice if the NRA took up our cause on this . . . those guys would easily kill this proposition with their lobbying juggernaut. It's in their interest to fight this, because tightening up knife laws might wet their appetite for restricting firearms.

The NRA is frequently asked to get involved with knife issues, as well as gun issues in other countries. It's their considered opinion that the gun fight in America is a full-time job. Can't really argue with that.

I'm with Samael on this. :thumbup:

Now an organization similar to the NRA, that lobbied for not only knife and gun rights, but common sense in general, might be what we need.

 

[stabman]

Im just telling people to chill out.

Good advice.:thumbup:
But you might want to try it yourself.
I don't like it if this does go through, as it would cut off the supply of any new cool American knives for me.
PLUS, Canada sometimes models it's laws on what the States does, and that would suck for us.:grumpy:

 

[nate3993]

it's so sad. people I talk to say, "ah, it'll never happen"
bull-it's happening right in front of our eyes

 

[davide]

I'm with Samael on this. :thumbup:

Now an organization similar to the NRA, that lobbied for not only knife and gun rights, but common sense in general, might be what we need.

Maybe try contacting the American Hunters and Shooters Association. They bill themselves as an alternative to the NRA, and lobby for gun rights from the perspective of sportsshooters and hunters. They support some aspects of gun control, which sets them apart from the NRA and--*possibly*--would mean that a Democratic administration would be more willing to listen to them.

But this current decision sounds like it is being made by civil servants in the Customs Department. For all we know they could have been selected by Bush.

 

[Josh K]

Maybe try contacting the American Hunters and Shooters Association. They bill themselves as an alternative to the NRA, and lobby for gun rights from the perspective of sportsshooters and hunters. They support some aspects of gun control, which sets them apart from the NRA and--*possibly*--would mean that a Democratic administration would be more willing to listen to them.

But this current decision sounds like it is being made by civil servants in the Customs Department. For all we know they could have been selected by Bush.

Not just from a perspective of use, but a perspective of this is our right, and in order to impede upon those rights you have to (1) prove that it's necessary, and (2) after you impede on those rights you have to show that the predicted result (typically a decrease in violence or harm) actually occurred.

 

[davide]

Not just from a perspective of use, but a perspective of this is our right, and in order to impede upon those rights you have to (1) prove that it's necessary, and (2) after you impede on those rights you have to show that the predicted result (typically a decrease in violence or harm) actually occurred.

Ah, I now I see what you mean. That's actually similar to the argument that the AHSA just raised about the assault weapons ban: http://www.huntersandshooters.org/node/1480

I guess I've steered this off-topic enough. They may be worth contacting about this as knives obviously play a huge roll in hunting and fishing.

 

[mp510]

I interpreted their definition of "inertia" to be separate from "human manipulation" or flicking. Their defeinition of "inertia" involves some sort of spring assist.

Read the underlined portions.

Continuing on your point, the other term that seams to limit this to AO's (at least in intent) is the term "minimal". While I believe that the verbiage leaves room for (mis)interpretation that could be used against non-AO one hand opening knives, those naturally require significantly more "human manipulation" to open, than an AO where the blade need only be moved a fraction of an inch before the mechanism takes over.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

... (2) after you impede on those rights you have to show that the predicted result (typically a decrease in violence or harm) actually occurred.

IF it saves just ONE CHILD ...
Why do they "have" to show anything?

According to the wording, they aren't doing anything really new, only going by what they see as the original meaning of the law.

 

[Josh K]

IF it saves just ONE CHILD ...

I hate that excuse. It's a weak argument used by those who don't have anything else to stand on. That argument is just like using a human shield, and worse yet, a child as that shield. :thumbdn: