Feds ban Assisted openers and Flick knives

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Esav Benyamin said:
Here we go again. For the benefit of those who only post but do not read: we have a Political Arena for political discussion. Work up a legitimate political topic and take it there. Do not post political discussions in Whine & Cheese. Do not under any circumstances beat on each other here. More infractions on the way for those who don't read!
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I read the whole thread, please tell me how this isn't political? Um the whole topic is political, move the thread or close it.

Hmm, a discussion board full of knife knuts and someone posts a heated "political" topic and you expect no one to speak about it. Please use a little common sense...

I'm not bashing people for their political views, I'm stating an opinion, I really see no need for your *hostility.
 
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AKnife said:
I read the whole thread, please tell me how this isn't political? Um the whole topic is political, move the thread or close it.

Hmm, a discussion board full of knife knuts and someone posts a heated "political" topic and you expect no one to speak about it. Please use a little common sense...

I'm not bashing people for their political views, I'm stating an opinion, I really see no need for your hospitality.
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There is a forum here called "Political" where political discussions belong. Reading the rules and FAQs is always a good idea before you start complaining to the mods about policy. :thumbup:
 
I believe mean hostility, not hospitality. I believe you should post any disagreement with my moderating in Service & Support. I believe you should read and think carefully about the instructions two supermoderators have posted in this thread before sounding off.

We do not move threads to Political Arena unless they meet the Political Arena criteria. No thread that's gone on at this length and so contentiously will meet those criteria.

This topic belongs in Knife Laws. It is about changes in the interpretation of the laws that affect us. Our first responsibility is to learn what those changes are and then discuss what we can do about them.

Sniping at other people's politics is not responsive and does not belong here.
 
This isn't good. It does look like they are attempting to expand coverage to all one-handed opening knives.

I wonder who is the "pusher" for this change in policy is. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum.
 
Esav, I do wish this remained in the general section as most members do not read the law section and this has the possiblity to effect almost all folders. Oh well. Please follow the thread as it goes on and WRITE to the correct government reps when Doug provides the info !!!! Thanks all !!!
 
Esav Benyamin said:
I believe mean hostility, not hospitality. I believe you should post any disagreement with my moderating in Service & Support. I believe you should read and think carefully about the instructions two supermoderators have posted in this thread before sounding off.

We do not move threads to Political Arena unless they meet the Political Arena criteria. No thread that's gone on at this length and so contentiously will meet those criteria.

This topic belongs in Knife Laws. It is about changes in the interpretation of the laws that affect us. Our first responsibility is to learn what those changes are and then discuss what we can do about them.

Sniping at other people's politics is not responsive and does not belong here.
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Yes I meant hostility, but I'm sorry if you didn't interpret my post as contributing to the "discussion" at hand. It's beyond me how "laws" aren't relating to politics, but I'll try and keep any thoughts of how this new information interferes with my "politics" out of the discussion.
 
My good friend had his SOG Visionary confiscated in NYC last week. This knife is completely unassisted, but has a thumbstud. The dick, er...cop that arbitrarily decided that the knife was "too easy to open" forcefully relieved my friend of the only knife that he owned; purchased specifically b/c it was not an AO for when he needed to go into NYC.
 
Unfortunately, your friend wasn't up on NYC law enforcement. The officer was doing what he was told. Practically speaking, any locking folder will get you the same treatment. Any part of any knife visible or printing will get you the same treatment. At least your friend wasn't arrested.

I won't take any knife into NYC now except a non-locking SAK or my Spydie UKPK.
 
Here you go, 67 pages later.

What I interpreted was they are after AO's only, they only mentioned "flickable" knives when referring to NYC legislature. At this time it does not appear they are after all one handers. But it is still a huge blow to the knife industry and our rights.

Again, this is my interpretation, YMMV

CUSTOMS BULLETIN AND DECISIONS, VOL. 43, NO. 21, MAY 22, 2009

We therefore find that knives with spring-assisted opening mechanisms
that require minimal ‘‘human manipulation’’ in order to instantly spring the
blades to the fully open and locked position cannot be considered to have a
primary utilitarian purpose; such articles function as prohibited switchblade
knives as defined by the relevant statute and regulations.
We note that other than a bald assertion that the knives at issue are for a
primary utilitarian purpose (you stated that the knife is of standard construction
and has a single-edged, utilitarian blade’’), no evidence substantiating
that claim was presented. The knife at issue can be instantly opened
into the fully locked and ready position with one hand, simply by pushing on
the thumb tab on the blade. Although the knife is marketed as a ‘‘release assist’’
model, it nevertheless opens via human manipulation and inertia. See
Taylor, supra. It is based upon this analysis and these factual observations
that we conclude that the knife at issue is a switchblade prohibited from importation
into the United States.
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AKnife said:
Yes I meant hostility, but I'm sorry if you didn't interpret my post as contributing to the "discussion" at hand. It's beyond me how "laws" aren't relating to politics, but I'll try and keep any thoughts of how this new information interferes with my "politics" out of the discussion.
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It's because it's much easier to discuss hot-button issues like this if you make sure all political party offiliations are checked at the door. Otherwise, it devolves into a party vs. party fight rather than an intelligent discussion.

Essav is trying to keep the peace, and the discussion going, please don't read it as confrontational!


Personally, I'm pretty socially liberal, and my politics aren't aligned with a lot of folks on here. However, it really upsets me to see something like this passed on a Federal level.

At the risk of a slippery slope fallacy, this is a very bad direction to be going in. ALL 1-hand opening knives can be flicked open, from the cheap folding boxcutters you buy at hardware stores to the venerable Sebenza.

It's very disconcerting to see something that was specifically designed around the current laws be suddenly banned as a dangerous weapon.

The real looming future threat, as far as I'm concerned, is that damn plastic clamshell "theft-proof" packaging everything comes in nowadays. Not to mention boxes, mail, packets of food, pieces of string...
 
I taught myself to open almost any folder one handed with or without a thumbstud. I can do it with Buck 110's/112's,CS Voyagers or almost any knife of any size. I can open them with the handle in my hand and not by holding the blade and flicking the handle downward as eairlier suggested. I can do it with more speed and a lot quieter than most could do with a assisted opener or even an auto knife. That being said the way I'm reading the "new interpetation"of the 1958 law is that ALMOST any knife that has a thumbstud (most folders),pocket clip (most folders) or AO spring (the kershaw's) or knives that even look like the swichblades of the 50's(Cold Steel has several that have thumb plates on the spine) are under threat of being banned(noting that almost all knives are made elsewhere and imported) and that interstate sale(or transport) is also being considered for prohibitition..Which I take to mean I could'nt order a knife from CS in California because it would be illegal to ship it here. AND that owning and or carrying of same would now be a subject of Federal Law and not local or State authority. Do I have this right? IF SO then this is an issue that ALL of us must be united on..putting ALL issues of different political opinions and other BS aside! I have carried and used knives since I was 5(and I'm 40 now)..carried them to work,to the store,to church and to school..If I thought for 1 lousy second that my 3,4 or 5 inch folder was a threat to the legal and law abiding I would put them away..but I'm not about to stop carrying my voyager or a 110 without a REAL DAMN GOOD REASON!
 
It's funny - I'm going to the UK in a few months and figured I'd bring my Leatherman Wave since I usually bring it on trips. But I remembered that they have crazy knife laws and decided to check it it was legal, which it isn't due to its locking blade. It was just a few days ago that I checked, and I was thinking how glad I was to live in a country that didn't restrict its citizens with arbitrary laws.

Is a 3 inch pocket knife more dangerous than a 34 inch baseball bat? What about a 5 iron? Should we assume that these objects will be used as weapons too, just because they can be?

Furthermore, am I any less likely to stab somebody if I don't get to flick the knife open? "Nah, this guy won't even be intimidated when I use two hands to open my knife, so I won't even bother to shank him." What the hell?
 
kberg said:
It's funny - I'm going to the UK in a few months and figured I'd bring my Leatherman Wave since I usually bring it on trips. But I remembered that they have crazy knife laws and decided to check it it was legal, which it isn't due to its locking blade.
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It is perfectly legal, apart from possession in public without a valid excuse.
 
5.56, I don't think you are right(wish you were). I read the whole thing and they are looking to include inertia opening as a part of it.
Raskolinov, if you friend lost his knife with getting a summons or being arrested then it would seem the cop pocketed it, which makes him guilty of theft if he did not voucher it.
 
5.56, thanks for the reasoned analysis. I'm sitting here drinking coffee and smoking cigarettes at the airport in Atlanta, and that's better news than the initial reports led me to believe. :thumbup:
 
It is perfectly legal, apart from possession in public without a valid excuse.
Even if I'm not in the UK...Who gets to determine what does or does not constitute a "reasonable excuse"? Supposing as one earlier poster put it: I've got a fish tangled in line in one hand and need to cut him loose or a partially destroyed fan belt I'm working on and my off hand is holding back the tensioner pully? Do these not come under "reasonable application"? for you fireman and EMT types does keeping direct pressure on an wound and getting a seatbelt cut loose BEFORE this car burns us both up classify as "reasonable application"? You see where I'm going?..This law which isnt even really a law(Not having passed before Congress,the Senate and the President for signing) has no basis in fact.
 
tom19176 said:
5.56, I don't think you are right(wish you were). I read the whole thing and they are looking to include inertia opening as a part of it.
Raskolinov, if you friend lost his knife with getting a summons or being arrested then it would seem the cop pocketed it, which makes him guilty of theft if he did not voucher it.
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I got the impression that my buddy didn't want to press the issue for fear of steps being taken beyond confiscation (a possibility that Esav pointed out above).


Getting back to the core topic again, though - is it likely that we'll be seeing a decrease in availability and/or an increase in price on knives that may soon be deemed illegal for interstate transport? The effect of ammunition cost/availability after the events of last November are quite fresh in my mind.
 
Anrkst6973 said:
That being said the way I'm reading the "new interpetation"of the 1958 law is that ALMOST any knife that has a thumbstud (most folders),pocket clip (most folders) or AO spring (the kershaw's) or knives that even look like the swichblades of the 50's(Cold Steel has several that have thumb plates on the spine) are under threat of being banned
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If you read my first post youll see that this is not a new interpretation. And if you go through and read all those previous cases you start to get the impression that customs has some pretty impressive legal gymnastics. There isnt anything new here actually, what they are doing is suggesting that they will repeal a bunch of previous decisions where they established a precident that a/o knives are not switchblades. What this means is we are likely to see customs seize any folding knives that cross state borders if this decision goes through (see mr. ritter's post) so they can start weeding out models they dont like.

AND that owning and or carrying of same would now be a subject of Federal Law and not local or State authority. Do I have this right?
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Short answer no. Customs cant do anything about possession, all they can do is go after manufacturers who operate across state borders (all of them) or international borders (many of them) or people who transmit knives across state borders.

The long answer is that state and local law is often written in accordance to custom's view on knives and that could mean a ban although it would come at the state or local level.

tom said:
I read the whole thing and they are looking to include inertia opening as a part of it.
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I would have to disagree with this statement. I dont think they are focused on that at this moment. I think right now they really are focused on assisted openers. But the problem is that they are also removing a lot of decision that protected one handed knives. I will DEFINATELY agree with your concern on that level though, because we've seen australian customs seize knives and try to make this argument. And it is something that could happen down the line.

I seriously wonder when people are going to get that knives are tools and not weapons and if you want to murder someone with a knife you would get your biggest butcher knife out of your kitchen =/
 
I dont think that they are trying to deem all one handers illegal, I think they really are after A.O.'s only, however even if that is correct it gives local and state governments loopholes into doing just that, just like NY
 
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