Feedback Needed: Dark Ops Stratofighter (Actual Experience Only)

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yeah i usually put food on the table before i buy knives, a good practice imho.

if the knife meets all your expectations and ya are happy thats fine,

i dont think darkops is gonna ever have much of a collector following though, ie go up in value.
 
dpimpc said:
Way to slyly insult the guy for no reason other than you disagree with his personal reasoning; honestly who cares and who says stuff like this? Completely unecessary. :grumpy:
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What part was uneccessary?
Point out where I was not being factual.

Fact: the ads feature lies and nonsense.
Fact: the knives are blatant knockoffs of Extrema Ratio.

Bottom line: if the above does not dissuade someone from buying a bogus product, why would the opinions of people on an internet forum matter? Like I said, strange reasoning.

It is one thing to buy out of ignorance of the fact a product is a knockoff, but quite another to knowingly support a company that steals all their designs. If you like the design, why not buy a real one?
 
If you like the design, why not buy a real one?

Someone else is making copies of the DOK's:D Now thats funny.

Oh, you mean the ER's in that italisized above I suppose------well, here's a couple of reasons I had in choosing DOK over ER's product.

First some background. I've owned a few ER folders. Nice knives, built like tanks. I don't own them now, sold them a short time after purchasing them.

Why?

They are extremely slippery in the hands due to their design and materials. Easy to drop, and when wet even harder to control and not lose under hard use conditions. ER would not address the issue people had/have in that regard even though Frank Miller begged them to make design changes, they stand pat on their product and don't care what the buyers want from them.

The DOK's solved that problem, and much needed upgrade over the design of the ER.

The DOK also has a larger pivot pin thats stronger by it's design. The ER is strong in design, the DOK is stronger in this area. An upgrade that certainly is welcome when one buys a knife like either of them for the strengths and ruggedness.

The ER makes use of a thumb rest while the blade is opened only, thereby putting pressure on the lock, and that pressure is felt over a smaller surface [ the blades width ] of the thumb. Consequently, the force which can be applied without discomfort is less than optimally possible. This thumb rest is absent when the blade is in the closed position.

The DOK's thumb rest is designed into the handle itself, not the opened blade. That means the thumb can exert force and has a restting place for the thumb even when the blade is closed, and can consequently also exert more force over a wider/larger surface [ the width of the handle, and not the blades width like the ER design ] thereby creating less fatigue and discomfort in doing so.

The glass breaker at the end of the ER's handle is not optimized for that role. There are better designs for that function in many other knives.

The glass breaker on the DOK is optimized to exert pinpoint force by it's design as others are. Both work in their intended roles, one works better with less effort, that being the DOK design.

The DOK can withstand the forces of 185 pounds of my weight both laterally stressing the pivot and on the locking mechanism. It's strong, very strong in design and materials. If it were not, it would not be able to withstand those pressures applied thusly.

The advertising has nothing to do with the strengths of the knife. I didn't buy the ER's or the DOK's for their advertising campaigns and propagandizing literature. I bought both brands due to their size, strengths in materials and design and just plain how rugged these types of folders are. The most important reason would likely be that they were lockbacks. That lock design is known for strength and longevity over hard use.

Brownie
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
What part was uneccessary?
Point out where I was not being factual.

Fact: the ads feature lies and nonsense.
Fact: the knives are blatant knockoffs of Extrema Ratio.

Bottom line: if the above does not dissuade someone from buying a bogus product, why would the opinions of people on an internet forum matter? Like I said, strange reasoning.

It is one thing to buy out of ignorance of the fact a product is a knockoff, but quite another to knowingly support a company that steals all their designs. If you like the design, why not buy a real one?
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Where did I ever say you were anything but factual? I simply didn't appreciate your interjection in which you chose to judge his reasoning with an insulting tone. Who cares why anyone buys any knife as long as their not stealing? In any case, none of this adds anything to the discussion at hand, so if you wish to continue, please pm instead.
 
Taking food out of may families mouth is an expresion. I work hard for my money and I expect of the comapnies that I give money to. My family is fed quite well as I do all the cooking (my wife is a mean baker). I am not putting you down for buying a DO or for collecting knives you dont use much. But what I am saying is this, Opionions were asked for and I thought I'd point out mine. I think that the ZT line and the Ruckus, Retribution, ect... all fill the big sturdy folder market well and would get my recomendation over DO. Also even if I do buy a knife for collecting purposes and never plan to cut with it I want blade geometry that can cut well and a well finished product. Over all it is craftsmanship that draws me to knives and the companies that get my money. I would agree with brownie that the lock back is a very sturdy design by nature. I would say though that the above mentioned folders all use very strong locks either due to design or are well designed to minimize any weakness within the lock (thick steel liners in the ZT200 for instance).
 
Seems a lot of people hate The brand without ever testing one. At least brownie did test it and sees it for what it is rather than what is said about it. I just can't look at mine and see where its not what he's found out.
 
Jill, I understand you point of view, but many of us dont have money to buy a knife that doesnt impress us in person. If I bought every knife that I had intrest in I would be divorced and broke (as if they aernt the same thing). Many people come here so they dont have to buy a knife to get an opinion about it. Please dont think you should be hurt over peoples opinions of a company. If you like your DO, then to hell with the rest of us. There are planty of people on here that wont buy/use liner locks, frame lock, axis locks, fake axis locks, tanto points, this steel that steel ect, ect, ect. Still when it comes time to people asking question if we feel that there $200 would buy them a bigger slice of hapiness elsewhere, we tend to say so. I dont hate any brand that I am aware of, but that doesnt mean I have to like it. I can tell alot from a hands on with a folder and it is usually all I need besides knowing what materials are used before deciding on a knife. Just because I am not impressed with there knife doesnt mean it wont work as a knife, or that its not thick enough to stand on (if you need a piton carry one imo, this is a stupid test for a knife). All I ever said is that they lifted there designs, could easily use a better nonproprietary steel and that the fit and finish doesnt warrant the price. If that to you means I hate them, im not shure where to go from there. I never said they cut poorly or that they broke under use as I do not have one and stated so. I think there are probably brands you dislike that others would deffend rabidly (ever been to striders forums?). All in all I come here for the diversity of opinions as well as getting advice from the best in the business.
 
brownie0486 said:
If you like the design, why not buy a real one?

Someone else is making copies of the DOK's:D Now thats funny.

Oh, you mean the ER's in that italisized above I suppose------well, here's a couple of reasons I had in choosing DOK over ER's product.

First some background. I've owned a few ER folders. Nice knives, built like tanks. I don't own them now, sold them a short time after purchasing them.

Why?

They are extremely slippery in the hands due to their design and materials. Easy to drop, and when wet even harder to control and not lose under hard use conditions. ER would not address the issue people had/have in that regard even though Frank Miller begged them to make design changes, they stand pat on their product and don't care what the buyers want from them.

The DOK's solved that problem, and much needed upgrade over the design of the ER.

The DOK also has a larger pivot pin thats stronger by it's design. The ER is strong in design, the DOK is stronger in this area. An upgrade that certainly is welcome when one buys a knife like either of them for the strengths and ruggedness.

The ER makes use of a thumb rest while the blade is opened only, thereby putting pressure on the lock, and that pressure is felt over a smaller surface [ the blades width ] of the thumb. Consequently, the force which can be applied without discomfort is less than optimally possible. This thumb rest is absent when the blade is in the closed position.

The DOK's thumb rest is designed into the handle itself, not the opened blade. That means the thumb can exert force and has a restting place for the thumb even when the blade is closed, and can consequently also exert more force over a wider/larger surface [ the width of the handle, and not the blades width like the ER design ] thereby creating less fatigue and discomfort in doing so.

The glass breaker at the end of the ER's handle is not optimized for that role. There are better designs for that function in many other knives.

The glass breaker on the DOK is optimized to exert pinpoint force by it's design as others are. Both work in their intended roles, one works better with less effort, that being the DOK design.

The DOK can withstand the forces of 185 pounds of my weight both laterally stressing the pivot and on the locking mechanism. It's strong, very strong in design and materials. If it were not, it would not be able to withstand those pressures applied thusly.

The advertising has nothing to do with the strengths of the knife. I didn't buy the ER's or the DOK's for their advertising campaigns and propagandizing literature. I bought both brands due to their size, strengths in materials and design and just plain how rugged these types of folders are. The most important reason would likely be that they were lockbacks. That lock design is known for strength and longevity over hard use.

Brownie
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You are not addressing the issue at hand. How do you justify Dork Op's stealing all their designs? It doesn't matter to you? You are talking like a Dork-Ops PR man, dancing around their complete lack of ethics. Seems to me that you are friends with the thief, but that doesn't make it right.

dpimpc said:
Where did I ever say you were anything but factual? I simply didn't appreciate your interjection in which you chose to judge his reasoning with an insulting tone.
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I really don't care what you appreciate.
I am disgusted by Dork-Ops' theft of designs. If people choose to ignore the facts, or just have low standards, I will continue to point the facts out. A lot of people focus only on the stupid ads and lies, but the whole company is a farce. They are making knockoffs of someone else's designs without permission. All the Brownie-shilling in the world doesn't change the facts.
 
You are not addressing the issue at hand.

Actually, I'm addressing the issue at hand from the OP's original question of " Feedback Needed: Dark Ops Stratofighter (Actual Experience Only) "

You on the other hand are NOT addressing the ISSUE of the OP's question. It might benefit you to pay more attention to the questions asked, and stick to posting factual information whyich benefits those who are asking instead of posting opinions in a non relevant way.

You are talking like a Dork-Ops PR man, dancing around their complete lack of ethics.

I answered the OP's question with facts from actually owning and testing the knifes attributes or weaknesses. Thats not being a PR man, but reporting the facts found through the testing process.

Dancing around? Seems thats what you are doing with your uneducated opinionated poste here. Stick to the original question asked and you apparently wouldn't have anything to add as you haven't tested one of the DOK knives [ and if you have, you haven't posted that review anywhere ], nor do you prpbably own one. Anything you post is an opinion, and baseless in facts at that.

I know you can't help yourself, when I was your age, I thought I knew everything as well. Over time, one learns to temper baseless opinions and stick to that which he can intelligently discuss.:rolleyes:

Brownie
 
brownie0486 said:
You are not addressing the issue at hand.

Actually, I'm addressing the issue at hand from the OP's original question of " Feedback Needed: Dark Ops Stratofighter (Actual Experience Only) "

You on the other hand are NOT addressing the ISSUE of the OP's question. It might benefit you to pay more attention to the questions asked, and stick to posting factual information whyich benefits those who are asking instead of posting opinions in a non relevant way.

You are talking like a Dork-Ops PR man, dancing around their complete lack of ethics.

I answered the OP's question with facts from actually owning and testing the knifes attributes or weaknesses. Thats not being a PR man, but reporting the facts found through the testing process.

Dancing around? Seems thats what you are doing with your uneducated opinionated poste here. Stick to the original question asked and you apparently wouldn't have anything to add as you haven't tested one of the DOK knives [ and if you have, you haven't posted that review anywhere ], nor do you prpbably own one. Anything you post is an opinion, and baseless in facts at that.

I know you can't help yourself, when I was your age, I thought I knew everything as well. Over time, one learns to temper baseless opinions and stick to that which he can intelligently discuss.:rolleyes:

Brownie
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you were not responding to the original poster. You were responding to me- as you quoted me (attempted to, in any case).

Your shilling for Dork Ops falls well short of answering me. You attempt to call into question my credibility based on my age, instead of answering me? Yet I am not the one lacking. You are knowingly consorting with thieves. (your friend Frank Miller, the thief)

You claim that everything I say is just opinion, so I would have to assume that you are blind. The knives are obviously copies of the ER designs. To not acknowledge that fact, one would have to be stupid or a liar.

After all, the only point I have made about these knives (the very point you are trying your best to avoid addressing) is that they are Stolen Intellectual property. . . The designs are stolen from Extrema Ratio.

You are dancing around the subject. So far you have not intelligently discussed anything, unless shilling your buddy Frank's knock-off blades passes for intelligent discussion. Why would anyone wish to own a knife from an unethical company that steals designs?
 
I think the problem here is some people care that the design is a knock-off, others don't.

For Rat, because it is a stolen design, the knife is inferior and should not be promoted. On top of this, there ad's are lies and only add to the bad qualities of this company.

For brownie, a knife is a knife. He is more interested in the actual performance of the knife. It performs well and has alot of good "upgrades" over the original ER design. The fact that the design was stolen is somewhat muted because the DO models address alot of areas the original ER models suffered in.

Feel free to correct me...I'm sure you will. But this is just what I see, and see it quite often I do. There are alot of knock-offs floating around, and people usually have one of these 2 opinions.
 
Some things can be legally patented others can't. When SpyderCo started to put clips on knives and holes in the blade they could not patent the clip. While the DO and ER look somewhat alike there's quite a few major differences. I don't think Frank Miller could get away with making these knives if there was patent infringement. The patent laws are there for a purpose. I've never heard of a design of a knifes looks being a feature that can be patented. Harley tried to sue the Japanese companies over the sound a V-twin motor makes and lost. If Mr. Miller can make this similar design in the USA and legally get away with it more power to him. Looking at the knife in question I know all the argument that its not a well made heavy piece, thoughtfully improved over anything that may have inspired it is baseless.
 
Ignorance does not invalidate reality.
Why not look up Industrial Design Rights and Intellectual property rights.

Frank Miller used to be the sole US distributer of ER knives. He copied their designs. He is a thief. These are facts.
 
I hope things have improved since this:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364405

darkopslockreplacement6lg.jpg
 
I have a Schrade knife that you can't tell from a Buck 110 at all without checking the blade. I don't care if Frank Miller is a thief that's between him and whomever he stole from. By the way that picture looks like the locking tab is being posed above the notch. There is nothing touching at all, I see space between the metal. So DO shipped a knife out with a blade that not only had poor lockup, but its blade had NO LOCKUP?(looking at my knife and the picture shows the one in the pictures locking bar to be way above the handle can't believe DO shipped it with that much sticking up, also can't believe they put it together with NO lockup) I don't believe these knifes are at all anything like some here are trying to show then to be. What Frank Miller did does not concern me. Its between him and ER. I have a full sized DO and its not poorly made, nor does it suffer from poor lockup. Its not nearly as "cheesy" looking as ER, IMO. (with their smooth metal handles and no finger grooves) BTW shouldn't Extreme Ratio be suing Dark Ops and stopping them from making these copies? I can't hardly believe they don't know about them. There must be a reason they aren't. Could it be they can't? And I also don't care if they stop them and win a bunch of money. Just like I really don't care that I own a forbidden knife that was made by a sneaky "thief". Its just a knife my well being doesn't depend on it.
 
Just like I really don't care that I own a forbidden knife that was made by a sneaky "thief".
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cool, maybe you should buy some of those stolen knives off of Vlad is Israel too, really good prices after all.
 
If Miller did something he can be fined and stopped from producing these DO knives, I had nothing to do with it. I also knew nothing about ER knives when I ordered it. I just think if ER has a case they should pursue it. I don't feel like the workmanship of the knife I have is in question. I have the Buck 110 knockoff made by Schrade as well. Its so close there's NO difference. What went on between those two companies about that doesn't concern me. Why should I worry about ER and DO?
 
DaveH said:
cool, maybe you should buy some of those stolen knives off of Vlad is Israel too, really good prices after all.
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No thanks I don't order knives from somebody I don't know in Israel. This Do knife was ordered from a USA dealer that is still stocking DO knives. It was not a stolen knife. I also read about what Vlad said about all the honest people declaring these "good price knives" they obtained from him at a mere 40bucks so as to get by cheap on tax. I pay my end of the deal when I buy. Like I said the DO knives are being made out to be junk by people that have a problem with how the knives came about. My point is they aren't junk and if ER can and has a case to sue that has nothing to do with me. No more than the 110 Buck knockoff I own does.
 
AH, got ya so stealing is OK if someone in the USA does it. Good to know. :rolleyes:
 
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