Feedback Needed: Dark Ops Stratofighter (Actual Experience Only)

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You still have not addressed the subject of stolen designs

Thats because the subject of what was or was not stolen is between the ER and DOK attys, if they were to find themselves on opposing sides in some tort action in the future.

As that has not happened in reality in over 18 months, and assuredly the attys for ER have looked at the subject closely, I'd be willing to guess that they could not find the teeth to make the same claims you are here in a court of law about theft of design or infractions of any kind of any product produced under the ER name by DOK and/or Frank Miller.

You seem bent on pulling me into some game of opposing opinions on the subject in an open forum which will resolve nothing relative the subject at hand other than to satisfy your apparent wants and desires to continue in this vane.

No thank you.

If you are lead to the conclusion that I'm either retarded or skirting the issues by the above and previous explanations, it leads me to my own beliefs about yourself which I feel are unnecessary to discuss publicly on this forum.

Brownie
 
Thats because the subject of what was or was not stolen is between the ER and DOK attys
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Anybody with eyes and a brain can see they where ripped off. Saying it's OK to support thievery because it's someone elses problem shows significant lack of moral character.
 
DaveH said:
Anybody with eyes and a brain can see they where ripped off. Saying it's OK to support thievery because it's someone elses problem shows significant lack of moral character.
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Not to mention the fact that the company Miller ripped off is based out of Italy which is, the last time I checked, not part of the USA and therefore, to my understanding, it would be much more difficult, if not impossible, for ER to pursue any litigation against DO or Frank Miller himself.
 
As far as aesthetics, I like the cleaner lines of the AR over the Stratofighter. I don't see what the infatuation is with Dark Ops knives, their blades don't have any elegant lines and look chunky.

The DO folder looks like a walking advertisement. Could they fit any more text on the blade?

IMGP0732.jpg


Their over-the-top marketing (which can be likened to Cold Steel's marketing - another company with which I'll never do business) also leaves something to be desired. Busse Combat and Strider Knives both sell incredibly well to the military without any "bloodspray" or "deanimation" in their advertising. True operators already know how a tool like a knife can be used without having to be spoon-fed it.
 
I like the cleaner lines of the AR over the Stratofighter

Hence the reason we see a multitude of variations on a theme from as many companies who make knives.

Not to mention the fact that the company Miller ripped off is based out of Italy which is, the last time I checked, not part of the USA and therefore, to my understanding, it would be much more difficult, if not impossible, for ER to pursue any litigation against DO or Frank Miller himself.

Your understanding may or may not be relevant to this discussion. ER has representatives in the US and so could easily pursue this suposed issue with some form of infringement everyone seems want to discuss without the benefit of the backstory or knowledge of Millers interests.

Anybody with eyes and a brain can see they where ripped off. Saying it's OK to support thievery because it's someone elses problem shows significant lack of moral character.

Let me know when you buy your next straight blade of any kind. I'll gladly introduce you to another company that made one very similiar to it first, and probably a long time ago at that. Of course, I'll also have to remind you that owning that knife shows some form of lacking moral character on your part as well.:D

Brownie
 
roughedges said:
Not to mention the fact that the company Miller ripped off is based out of Italy which is, the last time I checked, not part of the USA and therefore, to my understanding, it would be much more difficult, if not impossible, for ER to pursue any litigation against DO or Frank Miller himself.
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Most likely just prohibitively expensive to do so.

So in the end Brownie has proved himself a shill for a scummy company. His post above confirms my suspicions. How much you getting paid for your endorsement, brownie? Cash, or just free knives?

Jill Jackson:
Rationalizing thievery in rambling "stream of consciousness" posts just proves you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
So in the end Brownie has proved himself a shill for a scummy company

More baseless opinions from you sir. Doesn't really surprise me though.

I reviewed and tested a folder, I reported the results of the testing of that knife. Facts fully supported by the accompanying pictorial evidence in that review.

I answered the OP's question initially, and any subsequent posts were in direct response to others who decided to troll the thread [ like you ] and post irrelevant opinions to the OP's request.

It's to be expected on open forums as another suggested a page ago. You have baseless opinions on the knife in question, nothing to add of substance addressing the OP's question and continue to show your willingness to make opinionated and speculative statements at this point about not only the knife in question but now on a personal level with other posters here.

A 28 year old graphics designer whose apparently lacking in some social skills is of no consequence to myself in the final analysis though.

Brownie
 
Why you wasting money on production stuff?

I don't know why you guys just don't step up to the plate and buy a custom made knife........everyone knows that custom is better.....you buncha sissies!:p

Also, what's the better folding knife to use if your choice is, Dark Ops, Strider or Chris Reeve production?
































:D
 
Brownie, from your review, it looks like you have a Serial Number on the knife... I don't think I have one on mine

I had DOK put that serial number on the one I ordered when I heard Frank was starting his own line. That number is my initials and my PI investigastive number issued on the license I held for 28 years. They normally do not come serial numbered.

I supported Frank when he represented ER in the US here on this site. Reviewed a few ER folders once I had them shipped to me for him and ER then.

Brownie
 
brownie0486 said:
Brownie, from your review, it looks like you have a Serial Number on the knife... I don't think I have one on mine

I had DOK put that serial number on the one I ordered when I heard Frank was starting his own line. That number is my initials and my PI investigastive number issued on the license I held for 28 years. They normally do not come serial numbered.

I supported Frank when he represented ER in the US here on this site. Reviewed a few ER folders once I had them shipped to me for him and ER then.

Brownie
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Thank you Sir! By the way, I forgot to mention that you have written an excellent review about this knife! Keep up the good work!:thumbup:
 
The Intellectual Property concept on the forums is a pretty high standard that totally ignores knife making history and actual legal results from the bench.

The first lockback was Roman as far as we know. Clip points have been around for centuries, aluminum slab handles since before the Swiss Army issue, black blades since the 70's (who was the first, Benchmade?)

Claiming IP is being violated is a farce when you look at the details.

Rat, I've done it defending Strider, it looks like Brownie is doing a lot less shilling than you.

RWS, obviously Strider. Why ask? :D
 
I guess at my young age I have yet to reach a point where I lose all ethical standards and consort with thieves. :jerkit:

Brownie, Pathetically attacking me with your uncanny ability to read a profile doesn't excuse you from answering a simple question: Are you paid with cash or with knives for your endorsement?

tirod3 said:
The Intellectual Property concept on the forums is a pretty high standard that totally ignores knife making history and actual legal results from the bench.

The first lockback was Roman as far as we know. Clip points have been around for centuries, aluminum slab handles since before the Swiss Army issue, black blades since the 70's (who was the first, Benchmade?)

Claiming IP is being violated is a farce when you look at the details.

Rat, I've done it defending Strider, it looks like Brownie is doing a lot less shilling than you.
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We are not talking functionality. We are talking Design. The only farce is people trying to rationalize thievery and ignoring the glaring evidence. Have you bothered to compare the DO designs with ER? They are obviously copies.

Brownie is the only one shilling here, I would suggest you look up what that word means.
 
Brownie, Pathetically attacking me with your uncanny ability to read a profile doesn't excuse you from answering a simple question: Are you paid with cash or with knives for your endorsement?

I didn't answer you because thats MY perogative to ignore such nonsensical questions. I'm fairly confident most readers here are intelligent enough to determine who has been attacking who here.

:jerkit: Right back at ya sir.:jerkit:

Have you bothered to compare the DO designs with ER? They are obviously copies.

I gave several differences in designs between the two folders earlier. The question has already been answered, apparently not to your personal satisfaction, but then I didn't expect anything less from you here. I could make some disparaging comments about your comperehension skills or perhaps your reading skills, but I won't do that here as it serves no purpose and trolls the thread even further than you have taken it already:rolleyes:


Brownie
 
Whether you support mfg's who obviously take someone elses design, make a few changes for it to be legal, and then put it on the market ala' DO, CS, or Boker (I recall some of their latest knives are obvious clones), is a personal decision.

I think the fact that they are copying someone elses knife should be brought up in these threads, because (I hope) most of us would not purchase such a knife. As was stated previously in another post, why buy these especially considering the number of great knives on the market that did not copy someone elses design?

There are some who make their decisions based on the "it must be right because it is legal" principle, and then there are those of us who try to live by the Golden Rule. Many of us care a whole lot about this distinction, and obviously (and unfortunately IMO) some folks don't. IMO what DO has done may satisfy the former, but falls well short of the latter.
 
There are some who make their decisions based on the "it must be right because it is legal" principle, and then there are those of us who try to live by the Golden Rule. Many of us care a whole lot about this distinction, and obviously (and unfortunately IMO) some folks don't

Then there are still others who buy a product based on it's strengths and design upgrades over some other products that preceded it which the buyer felt lacking in some way.

Brownie
 
brownie0486 said:
There are some who make their decisions based on the "it must be right because it is legal" principle, and then there are those of us who try to live by the Golden Rule. Many of us care a whole lot about this distinction, and obviously (and unfortunately IMO) some folks don't

Then there are still others who buy a product based on it's strengths and design upgrades over some other products that preceded it which the buyer felt lacking in some way.

Brownie
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You forgot at the end:

"and don't care that the originator of the original design has been taken advantage of."
 
Simple Question.

Not when it's prefaced with this it isn't----:rolleyes:

So in the end Brownie has proved himself a shill for a scummy company. His post above confirms my suspicions.

You forgot at the end:

"and don't care that the originator of the original design has been taken advantage of."

Lets see, James Black and Resin Bowie were copied with design changes and upgrades by Sheffield in England who shipped their knives to the US for sale specifically to take advantage of a product that came before theirs. They didn't run into internet forums where people annonymously can state opinions as facts however.

Seems copying a design and making upgrades and changes to the original specifications started a long time ago, lest we forget folks.

I may have to call Rob Patton, whose straight I carry everyday and explain I can no longer carry his knife as they are just copies of that which had come before his interpretations.--:( ----------but somehow I doubt thats going to happen anytime soon if at all either.:rolleyes:

Brownie
 
Rat why don't you get on your soap box about the copy of the Buck 110, Schrade made for years? They didn't even bother to change it AT ALL. How much money you think was made by Schrade in that exact copy. No I might not know (or really care) about all the legal issues on copying a product closely. But I do see what you Rat and others are doing when you say the DO knifes are crap. You just don't like it that Frank Miller is making a knife similar to Extreme Ratio. Anyone can see the reason that picture of the lockup on the DO is only showing the front is because someone's thumb is holding the tab above the locking notch. There's no way that knife was put together and shipped with zero lockup and the locking bar sticking up above the handle. I bought a DO knife before I ever knew anything about ER or this forum. Its just another knife in my collection. I will probably not buy anymore of that style because I feel its all I need of that type of knife. My point is not with what Frank Miller did but with all you people that seem to hate him making these knives similar to ER, saying the knives are so crappy when that's an outright lie. If ER can and wants to do something about him breaking a patent law or copyright law it won't bother me. I merely own a knife.
 
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