Feedback on my Tanto design

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Damneddesigns said:
So if someone designed this kind of knife with no specific functionality that 7 out of 10 consumers like and will buy vs a functional knife that is decent aesthetically that 3 out of 10 like, they should produce the more functional one because that’s making life better for 3 people and the other 7 don’t know what they’re doing buying this kinda design? At the end of the day the consumer dictates the demand of a product. Of course it’s not possible to please 100% of the population. Of course the idea to design and sell knives is a business decision to make money. Im not sure a knife maker that creates a functional designs is doing God’s work (enhancing people’s lives) at the cost of their own income.
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No, that's not what I'm saying. You present knives A and B, with knife A being aesthetically pleasing but functionally lacking that 7/10 in your target market will buy, and B being functionally superior but only 3/10 would buy. The thing is, with minor aesthetic tweaking that minimally impacts function (or not at all, even) you could make knife B as pleasing to the eye as A. This is what I'm getting at. Function serves as the foundation on which the aesthetics are veneered. So when you can make a knife that looks nice but doesn't perform great vs. a knife that looks AND performs great, do the latter. The latter is just trickier because it requires you to know more about how the tool functions, while knife A only required you to know what looks cool. :)
 
Blues Bender said:
Start a thread here on your designs. If they’re not knife related, we have a community subforum that I’m sure M marcinek would love to participate in and tell you the success and flaws in your designs.
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Don’t know why the links to the work images aren’t showing. Post was over a year ago, and the server they’re on may have changed. But there’s hand drawn stuff that the links still work, have at it. I’ve got a thick skin, and I’ve made a good living off my talents...

My work starts a few posts from the top
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/anyone-paint.1604778/

Damneddesigns said:
Just out of curiosity and don’t get me wrong please. You’re a designer for 20 years? and know a lot about and are passionate about knives I assume? Why haven’t you designed a knife? Do you think the perfect knife exists and you can’t possibly improve on or just didn’t bother?
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First, just for some background info on me....
I’m not a product designer by trade. I mainly design trade show exhibits, corporate lobbies and showrooms, and product display solutions. All of which rely heavily on how people use and interact with the overall design. But my team does get involved a lot with product development, both internally, and for clients. We will also take on design projects beyond our normal scope, usually as part of a larger project for an existing client. We have the stance that good designers can design pretty much anything, regardless of their specialty or discipline.

That said, while I haven’t designed one professionally (we’ve never had someone ask) I actually have designed a knife for myself, and had a local smith produce it. It‘s a 4” fixed blade, designed to be a general purpose outdoors knife.

I wouldn’t say I know a lot about knives specifically, or as nearly as passionate about them as some here. I’m a tool user, who appreciates the aesthetic of knives, and happen to be a designer as well.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a perfect knife. There are knives that are close to perfect for their intended function. There are knives that are perfect for certain users. But there is no one perfect knife. The better an object gets to doing one task, the worse it gets at doing some other task. This is why we design to function first.

W.R.T track record of designers, I don’t know how that’s a valid point. Are you saying A reputed designer who has a highly functional knife could’ve designed this knife for example and it would be ok because they have other knives that were good? How does that negate all the points about functionality since it has no relation to another knife? Do buyers buy something the maker has applied their style to only to use their older more functional models?
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I think you may have misunderstood my point. A designer with a long standing reputation, is given more leeway from the public, by default, to explore and push the envelope of the design. Think of it like artists or musicians. If Eric Clapton released a new album today, people would by it without even listening to one song first. He’s a known talent, people know his sound, and know the guitar work and production will be spot on, even if the songs themselves aren’t all that great. My cousin plays guitar in a decent local band. If he released a record, people are going to critique it a lot more, gonna wanna hear a few singles, and maybe borrow the CD from a friend before going out and buying it.

That’s where you’re at. Ken Onion could release a really bizarre blade tomorrow, and people will buy it. Even if it looks weird, he’s a known quantity, who has a passion for his craft. Even if he decided to do a purely art knife, it would most likely have some elements of functionality built into it. Even if it turns out to be a dud, people are willing to take that chance based on past reputation alone. You on the other hand, do not the track record behind you, so people will naturally want to know what your design parameters are for its intended use of it doesn’t immediately jump out at them, and, fair or not, be much more critical.

Damneddesigns said:
So if someone designed this kind of knife with no specific functionality that 7 out of 10 consumers like and will buy vs a functional knife that is decent aesthetically that 3 out of 10 like, they should produce the more functional one because that’s making life better for 3 people and the other 7 don’t know what they’re doing buying this kinda design? At the end of the day the consumer dictates the demand of a product. Of course it’s not possible to please 100% of the population. Of course the idea to design and sell knives is a business decision to make money. Im not sure a knife maker that creates a functional designs is doing God’s work (enhancing people’s lives) at the cost of their own income.
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The primary function of design is to improve and create. The primary function of business is to make money. Putting the two together is what allows creatives to make ends meet.

I think this is where the perceived disconnect is between you and some of the members on this forum. You obviously have a design or engineering background of some sort (I’m assuming, as you’re using SolidWorks).

You keep sounding as if your knife is just a product. This is fine, and perfectly acceptable, from a design and business standpoint. You appear, at least, to just be producing an object to sell, regardless of it having a design purpose or not. If I’m wrong, please forgive me. Unfortunately, you’re posting for opinions to a group of people who have a vested interest in knives, and their use as functional tools. This is why I originally asked who your intended audience for your knife is. If you’re selling to non-knife people, who just want to buy a fancy knife to show off while sipping lattes (and again, that’s fine) it’s function, and your track record, aren’t going to really matter much. If your target audience is to serious knife enthusiasts, all of that does matter. Unfortunately, there really isn’t a whole lot of cross-over between the two.

Damneddesigns said:
View attachment 1191622
This was the original design from 5 months ago
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This blade looks much better, IMHO
 
Im gone for a couple hours...lol...wow...
Im gonna try to keep this short and sweet.

I strive to respect everyone’s opinion, that’s why I can agree with both Quiet Quiet and M marcinek , two of our great, yet a little abrasive members :) They both make valid points. Both sides are equally ok to take.

Damneddesigns Damneddesigns which do you prefer? “Just do whatever floats your boat because it will sell?” Or “Ok, you asked for feedback, so I will offer it with no candy coating.” Or a little bit of both?

FortyTwoBlades FortyTwoBlades and J jaseman have actually taken time to explain some very good concepts to you. And these dont just apply to knives, they apply to all aspects of business. I would re-read 42blades posts here, there is a lot of useful information.

My question is this...Is your goal to be a designer of knives for the “bubble period” of knife collecting? Or is your goal to make quality knives and still be around after the bubble pops?
Im just trying to gage how much time and effort i am willing to devote to this thread and your success.

Most of us here want to see new knife makers succeed! More options for us to buy!

Edit to add: Oh! And then there is ScooterG ScooterG ...love his posts. Lol. :)
 
jaseman said:
- snip-

You keep sounding as if your knife is just a product. This is fine, and perfectly acceptable, from a design and business standpoint. You appear, at least, to just be producing an object to sell, regardless of it having a design purpose or not.
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Since no one answered when I asked a general question, I'll ask you directly as you once again bring it up. The above passage of your lengthy post is confusing. "You keep sounding as if your knife is just a product, which is TOTALLY FINE....you appear to be just be producing an object to sell" as you then infer that clearly this is wrong, or that there should be some driving passion behind this guy's design.

So, which is it? Because in one breath, you state that a person just wanting to design knives for sale, for the purposes of making money is "fine", and then you use language like "you appear to just be" as though that's not fine. So, is it fine, or not fine? So many makers in the knife game today are making knives just to make money. Period. Full stop. Don't talk to me about passion, or love, or "THEEEEYYYY do it for the real fans!" They're continuing to churn out knives to make money. Money FIRST. Any passion they have or might have once had takes a back seat to that. So, is that wrong? Or no? Help me understand. After all, I gotta tell you, I really don't understand the repeated lecture to this guy. Is it because he's new? Is it because he asked for opinions on his arty S35vn art knife that he designed hoping to cash in on some of that sweet, sweet WE/Kizer/Reate loot? Speaking of which, a majority of the knives THOSE guys are producing (which a ton of people here seem to love*) are complete nonsense, designed by people we'll never meet or even hear from. Hell, most of ZT's knives are the same way. They're made here, by designers we know and love, so they can "get their designs into the hands of more people" Translation: make more money. To me? That's perfectly ok.

All I'm asking for here is a little consistency. If it's now an issue (stated in an inferring, underhanded way) that guys are designing knives just to make money, then Damneddesigns Damneddesigns here is definitely near the back of THAT line. So, I guess we should start taking some of these other guys to task, eh?



* People who say that they don't like Chinese knives are SINOPHOBES OMG!
 
Quiet Quiet

Im not sure if im included in your posted question, but no, there is nothing wrong with making a knife for money, which is the ultimate goal of a knifemaker/designer. To make a living.
I was just saying that some knifemakers who have done really well started off making a knife in their spare time that fullfilled a purpose they needed one for. Then other people liked it and wanted one and BOOM! Great knife turned into great knifemaker making money.
The title of this thread is “feedback on my tanto design” and I think that is what the OP has gotten (with occasional sidetrack but this is normal). All kinds of different feedback.
I never said i dont like Chinese knives, just that Im tired of them all looking alike. :/
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Quiet Quiet

Im not sure if im included in your posted question, but no, there is nothing wrong with making a knife for money, which is the ultimate goal of a knifemaker/designer. To make a living.
I was just saying that some knifemakers who have done really well started off making a knife in their spare time that fullfilled a purpose they needed one for. Then other people liked it and wanted one and BOOM! Great knife turned into great knifemaker making money.
The title of this thread is “feedback on my tanto design” and I think that is what the OP has gotten (with occasional sidetrack but this is normal). All kinds of different feedback.
I never said i dont like Chinese knives, just that Im tired of them all looking alike. :/
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Oh, I wasn't saying you had said that. Hell, I said that. LOL

My point is, with everyone babbling about "It's got to have a purpose!" I have to say, if that's the chief criticism? That means this knife is just fine. A knife's main purpose is to what? Cut things. The knife pictured in that guy's drawing appears to have a sharp edge. A folding knife with a sharp edge. I daresay it's got all the "purpose" it needs, wouldn't you agree? Not every knife needs to be pigeonholed, after all (which has been my whole point).

But, ya know what? Hell, maybe Damneddesigns Damneddesigns here can help himself pass the sniff check with a few folks here. He can erase that image of dirty capitalism from himself. He can show he's a REAL pro. How? Simple! He can just do what other makers do all the time: fabricate a complete farce of a story to sell a product. Here's an example: "This 3 inch bladed folding knife is exactly what you need for tactical sentry removal, it's just like the knife that SEALs carry for that purpose!"

Guy would sell a million tanto folding Ti flipper knives then!!

LOL
 
Quiet said:
Oh, I wasn't saying you had said that. Hell, I said that. LOL

My point is, with everyone babbling about "It's got to have a purpose!" I have to say, if that's the chief criticism? That means this knife is just fine. A knife's main purpose is to what? Cut things. The knife pictured in that guy's drawing appears to have a sharp edge. A folding knife with a sharp edge. I daresay it's got all the "purpose" it needs, wouldn't you agree? Not every knife needs to be pigeonholed, after all (which has been my whole point).

But, ya know what? Hell, maybe Damneddesigns Damneddesigns here can help himself pass the sniff check with a few folks here. He can erase that image of dirty capitalism from himself. He can show he's a REAL pro. How? Simple! He can just do what other makers do all the time: fabricate a complete farce of a story to sell a product. Here's an example: "This 3 inch bladed folding knife is exactly what you need for tactical sentry removal, it's just like the knife that SEALs carry for that purpose!"

Guy would sell a million tanto folding Ti flipper knives then!!

LOL
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Lol. Its true. This tanto will sell. Speaking for myself, i asked about what his intended purpose was for his knife in order to provide meaningful feedback. Thats where the confusion set in...if it has no purpose then “it looks sharp, good job.”
If there isnt a purpose...then the thread could be renamed to “would you buy this tanto?” :)
I think maybe this threads main goal was to gauge who like the design. I could be wrong though, wouldnt be the first time. ;)
 
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I can design chair with one leg , it will be a little tricky to use it..... BUT maybe it can even becomes a hit :D People would buy it just because it will be tricky to use it :)
 
Quite frankly...if we can get an answer to this question... Damneddesigns Damneddesigns “Is your goal to be a designer of knives for the “bubble period” of knife collecting? Or is your goal to make purpose driven quality knives and still be around after the bubble pops?”, then this thread can get back on track. :)

Edit to add:Maybe you havent really thought about the goal if your business yet, other than to make a few bucks and have fun...and thats ok. But generally, to be successful over the long haul...its something to think about. And the guys/gals here can help out a great deal with that. :)
 
Also, if you are looking to be in this for the long haul, check out these few makers for purpose driven ideas lead to either long time sales, or innovative ideas. These are a couple examples.

Purpose: Excellent cutting tool with great tolerances meant to work and be easily taken down and sharpened - CRK Sebenza
Purpose: Innovative idea no tool breakdown with tight tolerances and good looks - Snecx Tan ISF-20
Purpose: Best flipping action, and a usable blade with great ergos and good tolerances - Shirogorov F-series
Purpose: Flipper that is customizable from the manufacturer with good tolerances - Olamic 247

These guys all went through a period of “working out the kinks” or “adding slight changes to an already great knife.
Hope this helps.
 
Quiet said:
Since no one answered when I asked a general question, I'll ask you directly as you once again bring it up. The above passage of your lengthy post is confusing. "You keep sounding as if your knife is just a product, which is TOTALLY FINE....you appear to be just be producing an object to sell" as you then infer that clearly this is wrong, or that there should be some driving passion behind this guy's design.

So, which is it? Because in one breath, you state that a person just wanting to design knives for sale, for the purposes of making money is "fine", and then you use language like "you appear to just be" as though that's not fine. So, is it fine, or not fine? So many makers in the knife game today are making knives just to make money. Period. Full stop. Don't talk to me about passion, or love, or "THEEEEYYYY do it for the real fans!" They're continuing to churn out knives to make money. Money FIRST. Any passion they have or might have once had takes a back seat to that. So, is that wrong? Or no? Help me understand. After all, I gotta tell you, I really don't understand the repeated lecture to this guy. Is it because he's new? Is it because he asked for opinions on his arty S35vn art knife that he designed hoping to cash in on some of that sweet, sweet WE/Kizer/Reate loot? Speaking of which, a majority of the knives THOSE guys are producing (which a ton of people here seem to love*) are complete nonsense, designed by people we'll never meet or even hear from. Hell, most of ZT's knives are the same way. They're made here, by designers we know and love, so they can "get their designs into the hands of more people" Translation: make more money. To me? That's perfectly ok.

All I'm asking for here is a little consistency. If it's now an issue (stated in an inferring, underhanded way) that guys are designing knives just to make money, then Damneddesigns Damneddesigns here is definitely near the back of THAT line. So, I guess we should start taking some of these other guys to task, eh?



* People who say that they don't like Chinese knives are SINOPHOBES OMG!
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The way I look at is that I, and most of the members here do have a real passion for knives and we kind of expect the makers and designers to have that passion as well. (Or at least we like to be able to have the perception that they do. ;)) It may well be idealistic, but it is what it is.
When someone just comes out of the blue with no established reputation or any kind of "credentials" so to speak, it kind of goes against our expectations I suppose. ( I realize that he is not trying to sell us this knife right now, but that's the logical conclusion that you jump to in your mind.)

I personally also find it very difficult to have any enthusiasm for yet another "Made in China" flipper.

The whole purpose of a business is to make money, so obviously I have no problem with that, but that doesn't mean that it is perfectly fine no matter how it makes money. The OP's business plan is all perfectly legal, but in principle, I can't get behind it. And that is my issue and my opinion that no one else needs to agree with.
 
danbot said:
The way I look at is that I, and most of the members here do have a real passion for knives and we kind of expect the makers and designers to have that passion as well. (Or at least we like to be able to have the perception that they do. ;)) It may well be idealistic, but it is what it is.
When someone just comes out of the blue with no established reputation or any kind of "credentials" so to speak, it kind of goes against our expectations I suppose. ( I realize that he is not trying to sell us this knife right now, but that's the logical conclusion that you jump to in your mind.)

I personally also find it very difficult to have any enthusiasm for yet another "Made in China" flipper.

The whole purpose of a business is to make money, so obviously I have no problem with that, but that doesn't mean that it is perfectly fine no matter how it makes money. The OP's business plan is all perfectly legal, but in principle, I can't get behind it. And that is my issue and my opinion that no one else needs to agree with.
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Well, that's the issue I have with this whole thing. How much is enough passion? I mean, all the guy has to do is be like "I love knives, and wanted to design something cool", and then by this metric, that should answer everyone's "need" for this guy to like knives, no? Also, I'm with you on the Chinese flipper thing. I'm definitely not the target market, but I know plenty of people here will be. (shrug)

Anyway, I imagine the guy's gotten all the feedback he was looking for at this point.
 
Natlek said:
I can design chair with one leg , it will be a little tricky to use it..... BUT maybe it can even becomes a hit :D People would buy it just because it will be tricky to use it :)
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This is a traditional one-legged milking stool. They were strapped to the wearer and allowed them to rapidly stand and sit at different cows to perform the daily milking, and to pivot comfortably forward or backward as the circumstance required. Their own legs formed the other "legs" of the stool, making a stable but adaptable seating position. The spring allowed for a secure hold on the ground even at an angle, and acted as a shock absorber during sitting. ;) :D

7452cdc4583b91ad2853c4c85ec67e0b.jpg
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
Lol. Its true. This tanto will sell. Speaking for myself, i asked about what his intended purpose was for his knife in order to provide meaningful feedback. Thats where the confusion set in...if it has no purpose then “it looks sharp, good job.”
If there isnt a purpose...then the thread could be renamed to “would you buy this tanto?” :)
I think maybe this threads main goal was to gauge who like the design. I could be wrong though, wouldnt be the first time. ;)
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Yes. And this thread has also become about the nature of knife design.

To me knife design and great knife designers, even the most radical, are firmly rooted in an understanding what design features allow a knife to perform it's intended function. Like "What blade shape is most suited for a skinner and why?" "What balance is most suited for a fighter and why?" etc.

Like music. John Coltrane or Miles Davis, even when at their most radical cutting edge, did so through a deep deep understanding of music theory.

So it appears that some feel that an understanding of marketing suffices as great design.

Clones and tacticlols sell great.

So I will stick to "understanding function" rather than "marketing/branding."
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
This is a traditional one-legged milking stool. They were strapped to the wearer and allowed them to rapidly stand and sit at different cows to perform the daily milking, and to pivot comfortably forward or backward as the circumstance required. Their own legs formed the other "legs" of the stool, making a stable but adaptable seating position. The spring allowed for a secure hold on the ground even at an angle, and acted as a shock absorber during sitting. ;) :D

7452cdc4583b91ad2853c4c85ec67e0b.jpg
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Where's the logo?
 
marcinek said:
Yes. And this thread has also become about the nature of knife design.

To me knife design and great knife designers, even the most radical, are firmly rooted in an understanding what design features allow a knife to perform it's intended function. Like "What blade shape is most suited for a skinner and why?" "What balance is most suited for a fighter and why?" etc.

Like music. John Coltrane or Miles Davis, even when at their most radical cutting edge, did so through a deep deep understanding of music theory.

So it appears that some feel that an understanding of marketing suffices as great design.

Clones and tacticlols sell great.

So I will stick to "understanding function" rather than "marketing/branding."
Click to expand...

What does this discussion on music have to do with knives? Let’s stay on topic. This isn’t MusicForums.com. :)
 
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