Feedback on my Tanto design

Status
Not open for further replies.
Huh, suddenly the "experts" are silent. Odd.

Damneddesigns Damneddesigns You do you, man. I would recommend that you A. have a thick skin when posting here and B. take whichever criticism seems helpful to you, and absolutely disregard the rest. It's nonsense. No one posting here has any laurels to rest on, candidly speaking. AND? There are guys in the game today who are big names, the sorts of people that knife guys wait in line to get pictures with at shows like BLADE and the USN Gathering who have built successful companies around making knives that are silly, not practical, the most efficient, or the best cutters. None of those guys are posting in this thread, so don't worry about the negativity. They're too busy running successful companies. Many of them subcontract their designs out to Chinese makers today and people snap those up by the truckload. Do your thing, man. Welcome to Bladeforums.
 
Quiet said:
What about you, 42Blades? Plenty of knife makers in the various sections that could probably use a course from you two expert masters in what they should really be doing, right?
Click to expand...

They can do whatever they like, including ask for input. Input was asked for here, so I gave it. ;) To me it doesn't matter how famous a maker is, or how complex of designs they've made, or how much acclaim they've received. I believe that functional design is important, especially in tools, and that good knives should be more fun to use than they are to buy. People are going to make what they've going to make, regardless of what I think or say, but if someone genuinely wants input it's a subject I've put a lot of careful and analytical thought into, and I'm happy to help when asked.

I'm not an "expert master", whatever that means, and frankly your combative attitude is discouraging of serious discussion. The OP asked for input, and I took a decent amount of time out of my very busy schedule to provide what I consider constructive suggestions. But if you find genuine attempts to be helpful to someone actually asking for feedback to be off-putting, you're welcome to add me to your ignore list. It's no skin off my nose.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
They can do whatever they like, including ask for input. Input was asked for here, so I gave it. ;) To me it doesn't matter how famous a maker is, or how complex of designs they've made, or how much acclaim they've received. I believe that functional design is important, especially in tools, and that good knives should be more fun to use than they are to buy. People are going to make what they've going to make, regardless of what I think or say, but if someone genuinely wants input it's a subject I've put a lot of careful and analytical thought into, and I'm happy to help when asked.

I'm not an "expert master", whatever that means, and frankly your combative attitude is discouraging of serious discussion. The OP asked for input, and I took a decent amount of time out of my very busy schedule to provide what I consider constructive suggestions. But if you find genuine attempts to be helpful to someone actually asking for feedback to be off-putting, you're welcome to add me to your ignore list. It's no skin off my nose.
Click to expand...

Honestly? You're absolutely the last guy I'd ask for advice on what's clearly going to be a "flavor of the moment" EDC knife. If I need to know which truck leaf spring carbon steel machete is best, you'd absolutely be a trusted source for that information. I know this is crazy, but not everyone sees knives as hardcore tools that have to have an optimized design. Sometimes, it's ok to just design some silly nonsense that looks cool that happens to have a sharp edge on it.

You may call it combative, but frankly you and Marcinak have grievously missed the mark on this guy's design, calling into question:

- his design purpose
- the idea that his design has to have an iron-clad purpose (it doesn't, sorry)
- the idea that somehow he should go out, use a bunch of knives before daring to design something himself (he doesn't, sorry)
- the idea that this guy putting something together in CAD and deciding to sell it, somehow is an insult to "knife designers" (it isn't)

I mean, what am I missing? That's the issue I have with some of the discourse in this thread. This is a new guy with a low post count, where Marcinek immediately came in with his patronizing, condescending tone and your own posts keep talking about use optimization. There are plenty of big name makers who all have products with one or more of the design issues as pointed out here that sell very well. So, what's the big deal? We all know what this knife is.

If we only used things that were optimized for cutting, we'd all be using Opinels. Frankly I couldn't imagine a bigger nightmare.

P.S. 42, I don't have an issue with you specifically, I just think you're missing the mark on what this guy is wanting to do.
 
Last edited:
Quiet said:
Honestly? You're absolutely the last guy I'd ask for advice on what's clearly going to be a "flavor of the moment" EDC knife. If I need to know which truck leaf spring carbon steel machete is best, you'd absolutely be a trusted source for that information. I know this is crazy, but not everyone sees knives as hardcore tools that have to have an optimized design. Sometimes, it's ok to just design some silly nonsense that looks cool that happens to have a sharp edge on it.

You may call it combative, but frankly you and Marcinak have grievously missed the mark on this guy's design, calling into question:

- his design purpose
- the idea that his design has to have an iron-clad purpose (it doesn't, sorry)
- the idea that somehow he should go out, use a bunch of knives before daring to design something himself (he doesn't, sorry)
- the idea that this guy putting something together in CAD and deciding to sell it, somehow is an insult to "knife designers" (it isn't)

I mean, what am I missing? That's the issue I have with some of the discourse in this thread. This is a new guy with a low post count, where Marcinek immediately came in with his patronizing, condescending tone and your own posts keep talking about use optimization.

If we only used things that were optimized for cutting, we'd all be using Opinels. Frankly I couldn't imagine a bigger nightmare.
Click to expand...


I think you need to take a deep breath and calm down, buddy. It's possible to design tools that are both aesthetically pleasing and functionally optimized. I didn't say that aesthetic concerns should be ignored, only that aesthetic tweaks are best done after functional concerns are taken care of. Even broad-spectrum application knives can be optimized.

You're missing the point of everything I've put forward. I inquired about the intended context of use because you can't judge a design unless you know what target it's aiming to hit. If it's just to make something salable, then it's fine, which I already stated above. My remarks were all under the presumption that the OP actually wants to learn what makes a good knife, which they explicitly stated.

It seems your attitude is that I should just say "Looks great! Go make it!" which isn't the position I hold. All I'm saying is "ask why you're making a knife in the first place, set criteria, and judge the design by that". But if you want to take a totally myopic stance and just pretend that I'm saying inflammatory things, go ahead. I'm adding you to my ignore list and would suggest you do the same to me. I don't have time for people who make it their main goal to misunderstand my genuine attempts to help someone who was asking for constructive criticism.
 
“You missed my point!” while posting a response that shows you missed MY point. Nice.
 
Vitriolic peanut gallery aside, Damneddesigns Damneddesigns , I hope some of what I posted was helpful or informative. I think that with a bit of rumination on your intent for the piece you'll be able make any changes to it you feel it may need. The Deming Cycle of continuous improvement (shown below) is another useful tool for iterative design processes to try harnessing, as well. Aesthetically is looks fine. Whether or not it hits the mark performance-wise depends entirely on context. Even hammers come in near-infinite variations for a reason. They all hit stuff, but they each do it a little differently, and are tailored to specific ranges of prioritized use. So I'd use that as a guiding concept. :)

deming_cycle_image-resized-600.png
 
Sharp & Fiery said:
^ @ jaseman

This is exactly what i wanted to post, but i felt like it would be a waste of time, because i think OP has already wrote off my opinions.
Its a design meant to make money. Thats it. “How can i cash in on the current trend?”
Ill design a knife, and get it made in China for cheap to maximize profits.”
Thats my assumption and i could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I don’t necessarily think OP is designing a knife just to make money (I could be wrong though). He could be a designer of other things who thought it would be cool to design a knife as well. In fact, we don’t know much about his background at all.

My point was more that he needs to design based on his audience. If he’s designing it for knife people, he should design it as a knife first, and let the look evolve from that. Form follows function.

If he’s not designing for knife people, but for people who think knives are a fashion accessory, then design it as a fashion accessory. People can spend $200 on sunglasses... whether they buy Oakley’s or Gucci’s often depends on whether they want to be seen in them, or see through. The design function is different.

As a designer myself (not of knives) I’ve designed things I’m not familiar with, or passionate about. I will say, I always start with an idea of what purpose my design is serving. The OP doesn’t seem to have any purpose in design.

marcinek said:
I doubt you are wrong. Remember...



Like I said earlier...trivializes what knife designers do.
Click to expand...

I don’t think it trivializes what knife designers do. As I said, I’ve designed things I’m not always well versed in. But it also does not make him a knife designer. I was once asked to design a chair, but I am not a furniture designer... I will say however, that I took into account the purpose of the chair, how it was going to be used, and who was using it. I think that’s what’s missing here.

Quiet said:
Right? I just do not understand some of the garbage gatekeeping that goes on in here. Instead, it's "Let's hold the new guy to standards in a condescending way that we damn sure are not holding a bunch of longtime makers to."

Oh, right, because see, those guys made what they wanted to make and people are snapping them up. They didn't try to meet some silly specific criteria. I mean, do you think the Grimsmo guys had a huge task-specific point to their design? LOL Come on, now.
Click to expand...

I think the difference is, many of those other designers have proven track records of having made usable designs, or high quality products. They are bonafide, known knife designers. They’ve gotten the credibility to allow them to do what they want, in their style, and people will jump on it because of that background. Reputation, like it or not, goes a long way. I’ve been in my industry for over 20 years, and have earned reputation with my clients that allows me to do some unusual things because of my track record. And I can usually back it up with reasons on why I did something a certain way. Someone without my experience should expect to get asked about their design process when presenting an idea. There are no give-me’s.... you gotta earn your stripes.

And besides, OP asked for feedback - NOT validation - and that’s exactly what he’s been given.
 
jaseman said:
I don’t necessarily think OP is designing a knife just to make money (I could be wrong though). He could be a designer of other things who thought it would be cool to design a knife as well. In fact, we don’t know much about his background at all.

My point was more that he needs to design based on his audience. If he’s designing it for knife people, he should design it as a knife first, and let the look evolve from that. Form follows function.

If he’s not designing for knife people, but for people who think knives are a fashion accessory, then design it as a fashion accessory. People can spend $200 on sunglasses... whether they buy Oakley’s or Gucci’s often depends on whether they want to be seen in them, or see through. The design function is different.

As a designer myself (not of knives) I’ve designed things I’m not familiar with, or passionate about. I will say, I always start with an idea of what purpose my design is serving. The OP doesn’t seem to have any purpose in design.



I don’t think it trivializes what knife designers do. As I said, I’ve designed things I’m not always well versed in. But it also does not make him a knife designer. I was once asked to design a chair, but I am not a furniture designer... I will say however, that I took into account the purpose of the chair, how it was going to be used, and who was using it. I think that’s what’s missing here.



I think the difference is, many of those other designers have proven track records of having made usable designs, or high quality products. They are bonafide, known knife designers. They’ve gotten the credibility to allow them to do what they want, in their style, and people will jump on it because of that background. Reputation, like it or not, goes a long way. I’ve been in my industry for over 20 years, and have earned reputation with my clients that allows me to do some unusual things because of my track record. And I can usually back it up with reasons on why I did something a certain way. Someone without my experience should expect to get asked about their design process when presenting an idea. There are no give-me’s.... you gotta earn your stripes.

And besides, OP asked for feedback - NOT validation - and that’s exactly what he’s been given.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity and don’t get me wrong please. You’re a designer for 20 years? and know a lot about and are passionate about knives I assume? Why haven’t you designed a knife? Do you think the perfect knife exists and you can’t possibly improve on or just didn’t bother?

W.R.T track record of designers, I don’t know how that’s a valid point. Are you saying A reputed designer who has a highly functional knife could’ve designed this knife for example and it would be ok because they have other knives that were good? How does that negate all the points about functionality since it has no relation to another knife? Do buyers buy something the maker has applied their style to only to use their older more functional models?
 
Search the community forums. At one point someone posted asking about a career in art. I posted some of my past work there. Feel free to have at it.

I’ll even find it for you later tonight when I get home.
 
unwisefool said:
Lemme show you some of my technical drawings of your knife real quick.

View attachment 1191405

If you pulled back your scales to the red line, you could angle the plunge line to be more vertical which would do 2 things:

A) make the blade look longer
2} reduce cutting resistance at the back of the blade
iii) also make it easier to sharpen

I also might reduce the height of the harpoon bit on the top of the blade. It would make it fit better in a pocket and make the blade look sleeker and less chunky
Click to expand...

I also would think it might look interesting without the harpoon swedge on top.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
The question is whether or not you, as a maker, with your image attached to the goods you produce, wishes to design something that sells, or if you want to design something that provides the most functional enhancement to the lives of your customers as possible.
Click to expand...


So if someone designed this kind of knife with no specific functionality that 7 out of 10 consumers like and will buy vs a functional knife that is decent aesthetically that 3 out of 10 like, they should produce the more functional one because that’s making life better for 3 people and the other 7 don’t know what they’re doing buying this kinda design? At the end of the day the consumer dictates the demand of a product. Of course it’s not possible to please 100% of the population. Of course the idea to design and sell knives is a business decision to make money. Im not sure a knife maker that creates a functional designs is doing God’s work (enhancing people’s lives) at the cost of their own income.
 
Ok, gents, all lambast, pomp, and circumstance aside, can someone explain to me in simple terms what exactly is wrong with designing a knife simply to make money?

Before you answer, you should be aware that most big knife makers? (Pppssssttt...here's a secret: THEY ARE IN IT TO MAKE MONEY.) All of that "I knew that the world needed a knife, the perfect knife for...survival/camping/bushcraft/sentry-removal/etc. Doesn't matter, here's the fact of the matter: IT'S ALL MARKETING. It's a good story designed solely to sell knives.

And in my opinion? That's 100% ok, so people really need to stop with the insinuations that somehow this guy is less than legitimate, or attempting to cast aspersion on the reputation, morals, and dignity of the guy.

Man, I cannot believe I spent so much time today essentially defending this gent who wants to have knives made for sale in China. Hell, I don't like it, but even I can admit that that isn't wrong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top