Fiddleback Forge 1/8 or 3mm O-1 Tool Steel with Convex Grind,Photos & Discussion

[beliluk]

As always, great post and pictures Mist. Thank you.

 

[Mistwalker]

That pork chop looks mm mm good.

They were better when just out of the oven, but not a bad snack cold

As always, great post and pictures Mist. Thank you.

Thank you, I'm glad you liked the post!

 

[Mistwalker]

I have had a few of Andy's thinner blades, including a small knife in tapered 1/8 / 3mm. But this is the first "bushcraft" style working knife I have had in this steel thickness. With the abrasion on the edge at the tip when boring divot holes...

...and both the lateral abrasion of the edge and the stress of the twisting in the ring-and-break cutting method....

...I am really happy with the performance of the convex as a bushcraft knife so far, and with the edge retention. I think Andy has really dialed in his heat treat for a great mix of edge toughness and edge retention.

By the time the testing is done I may be wanting a tapered 1/8 / 3mm version for the summer, and a tapered 5/32 / 4mm version for the colder months



.

 

[Mistwalker]

Ok, mayhaps I need to find a scantily-clad pretty you lass as an assistant, or something to kick start a discussion on 1/8 convex in use...but since it is snowing with freezing rain and in the thirties here still, I don't foresee this happening any time soon. Sorry, but any pretty young lass that would work scantily-clad in these conditions would likely have a sanity level I would wish to avoid

So, anyone have any thoughts or questions on specific uses they would like the see the 1/8 convex put through? If you don't that's ok, it's warming up here a little now and more soon, so I'll just keep plugging away with my own thoughts and ideas. I just thought maybe I should ask. But be warned, be realistic, as though I may very well peel a few apples, there will be no hammering it through a 4x4 with a two-pound hammer, or digging through a 2x4 to test tip strength. I mean seriously, keep it to realistic uses of a knife of this size and design

 

[Chapel]

Great post, as others have said you are very generous with your time and knowledge. You set a great example in and out of the field. Very touching story of your childhood, what doesn't break us makes us stronger, though a trail angel or two along the way can make all the difference.

 

[Mistwalker]

Great post, as others have said you are very generous with your time and knowledge. You set a great example in and out of the field. Very touching story of your childhood, what doesn't break us makes us stronger, though a trail angel or two along the way can make all the difference.

Thank you. I spend a lot of time out in the woods with a camera for my work, I like to do some personal stuff when I take breaks, experiment, and share what I learn. I have learned much here from others sharing with me, including the two-stick hearth concept. I like to pay it forward. I did not really understand the first time I heard my friend Pete quote Nietzsche in that phrase, but I had a good grasp of it a decade later. And yes, there was more than one of those along the way.

 

[Sam Wilson]

I don't have any suggestions for tests/use of the 1/8" blade, but I will throw my .02 in. I think that is a great thickness for a blade that size, and in general, I much prefer thinner blades, because I want a knife to do what it's primarily designed to do: cut. I think it is unfortunate that so many people believe/have been told that they need a big thick blade. Especially in the realm of factory knives, where the edge thickness is generally thicker anyway, this almost always leads to less than optimal performance. I doubt I will ever understand the obsession with 1/4" thick blades, for all but the most abusive situations. I make large hollow handle "survival" type knives, and my large blades are typically right in the neighborhood of 7/32" or sometimes slightly less, if the customer wants. When you combine thinner stock with a thin edge, good edge geometry, and a quality steel/heat treat, you wind up with cutting performance that shocks many people, on large and small knives.

I applaud Andy @ Fiddleback, and other makers who use thinner stock and thinner edges for better performance. Absolutely nothing against others who prefer thicker steel/profiles, but for the vast majority of CUTTING applications, thinner stock/good edge geometry will change peoples' minds about what a knife is capable of. I wish more people would look at/use knives in the 1/8", 3/32" range. And another great thickness is 5/32". Knives with properly ground edges in those thicknesses and good steel can be used plenty hard, and will cut like lasers. And nice pics/writeup as always, Mist. Thanks for sharing.

Sam :thumbup:

 

[Mistwalker]

I don't have any suggestions for tests/use of the 1/8" blade, but I will throw my .02 in. I think that is a great thickness for a blade that size, and in general, I much prefer thinner blades, because I want a knife to do what it's primarily designed to do: cut. I think it is unfortunate that so many people believe/have been told that they need a big thick blade. Especially in the realm of factory knives, where the edge thickness is generally thicker anyway, this almost always leads to less than optimal performance. I doubt I will ever understand the obsession with 1/4" thick blades, for all but the most abusive situations. I make large hollow handle "survival" type knives, and my large blades are typically right in the neighborhood of 7/32" or sometimes slightly less, if the customer wants. When you combine thinner stock with a thin edge, good edge geometry, and a quality steel/heat treat, you wind up with cutting performance that shocks many people, on large and small knives.

I applaud Andy @ Fiddleback, and other makers who use thinner stock and thinner edges for better performance. Absolutely nothing against others who prefer thicker steel/profiles, but for the vast majority of CUTTING applications, thinner stock/good edge geometry will change peoples' minds about what a knife is capable of. I wish more people would look at/use knives in the 1/8", 3/32" range. And another great thickness is 5/32". Knives with properly ground edges in those thicknesses and good steel can be used plenty hard, and will cut like lasers. And nice pics/writeup as always, Mist. Thanks for sharing.

Sam :thumbup:

I'm not so much into the 1/4 inch stuff these days except in knives intended for very hard, very rough use. But I do still like 3/16 in some. Mainly I am sort of hung up on the 5/32 in this size of a knife, but I am really liking using this one a lot, and getting a better understanding of it.

 

[McVeyMac]

Hey Mist, I wish that there were quantifiable tests for sharpness, edge retention and cutting efficiency that our whole community agreed with. It would be interesting to take your knives through a day of bush crafting exercises and follow up with running it through the said tests; however, there are thousands of pages of discussions on these forums regarding these topics, and there appears to be no consensus on what these measurements are. So I vote for scantily clad women.

All kidding aside, field use and field maintenance of the edge are topics I am interested in. I have spent a great deal of time learning how to obtain and maintain a scary sharp V edge (and even convex edges) on knives using water stones. I am still getting a feel for 01 steel. For example, I sharpened the Recluse that I obtained from you to a pretty accute V cutting edge (probably 15 DPS or 30 D inclusive), and I found that I rolled the edge with moderate use. So I clearly went beyond the limits of this steel. I am now experimenting with it to see how accute I can take it, and still have a strong enough edge to withstand normal bush crafting duties. I carry a small 1,000 grit water stone to the field to maintain edges when going for extended periods. So my request would be to continue to test the knife in the field, teaching bush craft techniques like you do so well, then maintaining the edge in the field. Some sort of measurement of cutting ability both before and after sharpening I would find very informative.

This is a new steel to me, and the fact that it is convex ground has me at a bit of a loss as to how to thin the primary grind with repeated sharpening to maintain an efficient cutting geometry for the usable life of the knife. So I am experimenting with it. I love a scary sharp edge on a knife, but every steel has it's limits for a given application. I am searching for those limits with this steel.

 

[Mistwalker]

Hey Mist, I wish that there were quantifiable tests for sharpness, edge retention and cutting efficiency that our whole community agreed with. It would be interesting to take your knives through a day of bush crafting exercises and follow up with running it through the said tests; however, there are thousands of pages of discussions on these forums regarding these topics, and there appears to be no consensus on what these measurements are. So I vote for scantily clad women.

All kidding aside, field use and field maintenance of the edge are topics I am interested in. I have spent a great deal of time learning how to obtain and maintain a scary sharp V edge (and even convex edges) on knives using water stones. I am still getting a feel for 01 steel. For example, I sharpened the Recluse that I obtained from you to a pretty accute V cutting edge (probably 15 DPS or 30 D inclusive), and I found that I rolled the edge with moderate use. So I clearly went beyond the limits of this steel. I am now experimenting with it to see how accute I can take it, and still have a strong enough edge to withstand normal bush crafting duties. I carry a small 1,000 grit water stone to the field to maintain edges when going for extended periods. So my request would be to continue to test the knife in the field, teaching bush craft techniques like you do so well, then maintaining the edge in the field. Some sort of measurement of cutting ability both before and after sharpening I would find very informative.

This is a new steel to me, and the fact that it is convex ground has me at a bit of a loss as to how to thin the primary grind with repeated sharpening to maintain an efficient cutting geometry for the usable life of the knife. So I am experimenting with it. I love a scary sharp edge on a knife, but every steel has it's limits for a given application. I am searching for those limits with this steel.

Thanks for joining in Mac, this is a good set of thoughts, and one of the reasons Andy is quick to point out to choose a model that is in line with your intended tasks, rather than take a model out of its reasonable expectations of use. Toughness in general is one of the reasons I have been sort of hung up on the 5/32 and sort of late to the party on putting the 1/8 convex through serious paces in bushcraft. This KE Bushie is only one of a handful of knives I have had with acute of an edge, VASticks did the exact opposite of what I usually do, and that was also a major draw to it. I usually expand Andy's micro bevels into a larger V bevel, and VASticks sticks reduced the micro bevel to a convex edge. The ability to do either or, is exactly why Andy puts the micro bevel on his knives. Making them user friendly for both sides of the sharpening fence simultaneously. I love how this knife handles, and slices like a laser, but it will be a while yet before I decide which way I will go with it, when it comes time to sharpen.

Historically I have been drawn to the 5/32 to stay in Andy's parameters of edge geometry vs my style of knife use. The 5/32 Kephart is still as of yet my favorite of his bushcrafting designs, I am just spoiled to Andy's tapered tangs and find the full tang models very handle heavy now. These are pics of it new, and as you can see the micro-beveled edge was plenty sharp.

As time went by I expanded the micro bevel into a V edge, which was still plenty sharp enough for fine work.

But as you can see, I didn't go too acute with it, in order to keep the edge in a reasonable range of toughness for harder work

Tests show O-1 tool steel to be a good tough steel even in the RC ranges of 60-61 where it also has good edge retention. You just have to dial it in to your specific needs. If you are going to be doing a lot of game processing and meat prep, then a more acute angle, or finer convex edge may work better for you, just be keep in mind that if the edge is too fine the contact with bone may do damage. If fire prep and heavier bushcrafting like chopping will be done then a more obtuse angle or less thin convex edge will be a better way to go to endure the impacts. And if your tasks fall middle of the road in this, then so should the edge geometry in my opinion.

Considering the nature of the tests I am doing, I will likely adjust the edge on this one to be a little less keen in order to keep things within reason So far there is very little edge degradation even after the use in cutting the hard wood with lateral abrasion to the edge, bu I'll still want to make the edge a little bit less fine for general use in my tests over time.

 

[Joe Duder]

Hey Mist, I wish that there were quantifiable tests for sharpness, edge retention and cutting efficiency that our whole community agreed with. It would be interesting to take your knives through a day of bush crafting exercises and follow up with running it through the said tests; however, there are thousands of pages of discussions on these forums regarding these topics, and there appears to be no consensus on what these measurements are. So I vote for scantily clad women.

All kidding aside, field use and field maintenance of the edge are topics I am interested in. I have spent a great deal of time learning how to obtain and maintain a scary sharp V edge (and even convex edges) on knives using water stones. I am still getting a feel for 01 steel. For example, I sharpened the Recluse that I obtained from you to a pretty accute V cutting edge (probably 15 DPS or 30 D inclusive), and I found that I rolled the edge with moderate use. So I clearly went beyond the limits of this steel. I am now experimenting with it to see how accute I can take it, and still have a strong enough edge to withstand normal bush crafting duties. I carry a small 1,000 grit water stone to the field to maintain edges when going for extended periods. So my request would be to continue to test the knife in the field, teaching bush craft techniques like you do so well, then maintaining the edge in the field. Some sort of measurement of cutting ability both before and after sharpening I would find very informative.

This is a new steel to me, and the fact that it is convex ground has me at a bit of a loss as to how to thin the primary grind with repeated sharpening to maintain an efficient cutting geometry for the usable life of the knife. So I am experimenting with it. I love a scary sharp edge on a knife, but every steel has it's limits for a given application. I am searching for those limits with this steel.

Since you're experimenting, try zeroing out your micro bevel, basically turn it into a full convex. I've found that a full convex requires a lot less maintenance and is less likely to roll and chip. I've heard that the micro bevel is easier to touch up in the field, but I think they're about the same.

 

[Mistwalker]

Since you're experimenting, try zeroing out your micro bevel, basically turn it into a full convex. I've found that a full convex requires a lot less maintenance and is less likely to roll and chip. I've heard that the micro bevel is easier to touch up in the field, but I think they're about the same.

All things being equal, or at least relatively equal, convex is the tougher edge geometry. BUT a more more obtuse V grind will still be more durable that a very fine convex.

 

[Joe Duder]

I look at v edges as small scandis and a scandi edge (when doing the same tasks) will always roll/chip before a convex, in my opinion and experience.

 

[velosa]

I look at v edges as small scandis and a scandi edge (when doing the same tasks) will always roll/chip before a convex, in my opinion and experience.

Hey guys, good conversation here. Everyone knows I'm a scandi fan. The one reoccurring complaint/drawback of the scandi grind that I hear is that their edges are more easily rolled (compared to other grinds). Just out of curiosity, how many people out there have actually rolled a scandi edge? With normal use (food prep, game processing, camp chores, feather sticks, LIGHT battoning, I don't think I've ever come close. I'm just curious if this is hyperbole, or a pretty common occurrence.

 

[McVeyMac]

Hey guys, good conversation here. Everyone knows I'm a scandi fan. The one reoccurring complaint/drawback of the scandi grind that I hear is that their edges are more easily rolled (compared to other grinds). Just out of curiosity, how many people out there have actually rolled a scandi edge? With normal use (food prep, game processing, camp chores, feather sticks, LIGHT battening, I don't think I've ever come close. I'm just curious if this is hyperbole, or a pretty common occurrence.

Well Andy, now that I own a Scandi, I can test the hypothesis. I have not put it to the test myself, but thurin and I had a conversation about the Scandi Fiddleback. He said that he found that the edge was prone to rolling. His solution was to put a more obtuse microbevel on it, and communicated some satisfactory results.

 

[Joe Duder]

Just for the record- I'm a scandi fan.

 

[Mistwalker]

I look at v edges as small scandis and a scandi edge (when doing the same tasks) will always roll/chip before a convex, in my opinion and experience.

In essence, and to a certain degree yes. BUT, a thin fine edge, is a thin fine edge, is a thin fine edge...finely acute edges of any type are still more fragile than more obtuse edges.

 

[Brettski7]

Hey all,

I know this is not the correct thread for this question and I apologize. I am new to blade forums.

I was just wondering where Andy posts the new knives on Fridays. Is there one thread that continuosly gets updated or is there a new one that is started every Friday?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Mistwalker]

Hey all,

I know this is not the correct thread for this question and I apologize. I am new to blade forums.

I was just wondering where Andy posts the new knives on Fridays. Is there one thread that continuosly gets updated or is there a new one that is started every Friday?

Thanks for the help!

It's a new thread every time. Today's thread will be likely be titled "Fiddleback Friday 3/28/14"

 

[Brettski7]

Awesome, thanks!