Fighting for kicks

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i carry and use knives all the time.but i WILL NOT use a knife as a weapon unless it is a life threatening situation.i do not pull my knife out and act like im going to stab anyone (thats plain stoopid).as a matter of fact,when me and my brother decide to fight (almost always a mutual lets get it on friendly fight,sparring i guess) i ALWAYS take what ever knives i have on me off and put them up.that way i dont get carried away and neither does he.no one is hurt and all is good.

its funny,i went to work the other day and some guy was showing how fast his new (knock off) could be opened with a flick of a wrist,i walked away laughing,but managed to keep my mini task in my pocket.
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posted by not2sharp:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Fighting for kicks = short lived looser</font>
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amen.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kumdo:
Fuchikoma-

You carry a 34" sword concealed? I don't doubt that you CAN do this, just wondering about the legal ramifications. What city do you do this in?

And the practical applications... Are you carrying this for self defense?
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I did this last summer in Red Deer, Alberta; and no, it's not technically legal, though I'd sooner conceal it than scare a bunch of people as I walk through downtown with a sword. =P

As for the reason, a friend of mine and I were shooting some sword-fighting scenes for a video, and I had to take it to his house. I don't actually have a car, so I walked.

I have passed by police officers a few times with it, at which point, I just re-adjusted it and undid the clasp that held it to my leg so that it wasn't concealed anymore. I wasn't even stopped. (Probably just thought "Huh... guy with a sword... that's weird.")

a.) It's not concealed, brandished, double-edged, spring-deployed, opened by gravity, etc... So when it's not concealed, it's legal under Canadian law.

b.) Simple thinking: Who in their right mind would try to rob a bank or store or anything like that with a sword? It's not easy to run with concealed, and when not concealed, it stands out like... a guy with a sword.
 
Geez.......Those Canucks!!

The police officer probably thought that you were carrying the new Koho "Lemieux Returns" stick under your coat!!

It could happen!?!?!?!
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--The Raptor--
 
"Fighting is the sport of the dumb."

I am not trying to turn this into a flame war but I personally take offense to that statement. I have watched this thread and reluctantly held my tongue but I feel I have to put my 2 cents in now.

I am a professional mixed martial arts fighter (or what some people call "Ultimate Fighting"). Some of you may know what this is, some of you may know all the negative, biased, one-sided, uninformed and sensationalistic press we get in the media and some of you probably have no idea what I'm talking about. At any rate, I train in Atlanta with some of the best fighters in the Southeast on Team Omega. John Wehby, head wrestling coach at Georgia Tech and also an architect. He has a "fighting for kicks" record of about 15-4. He is far from "dumb". George Allen, Army reserve and nuclear medicine specialist at Scottish Rites in Atlanta. Has a record of 15-6. Also, far from "dumb". I am a computer graphics designer by day and I am also an accomplished musician of 26 years. I have a record of 9-1. I do not consider myself "dumb". Before you make statements like these, please have something to base them on. Do you know any fighters personally?
As far as sticking with the question at hand, I have never been in a knife fight. I carry a BM710 every day. I am a weapon, my knife is a tool. I would only use it as a weapon if my life totally depended on it. As a matter of fact, I have only been witness to one knife "fight" in my life. As a professional fighter we don't like to call "knife fights" fights at all. We refer to this type of thing as street violence, not fighting. Comparing a knife attack to fighting is about the same as comparing an automobile accident to fighting. Within the fight community, the term "fight" is associated with the terms "honor" and "duel". Street violence falls in the category of self defense in which you should have the biggest "self defense machine" you can get your hands on... Desert Eagle .44. Don't bring a knife or a black belt to a gun fight.
As far as knife fighting systems, I really do not put a lot of stock in them. The guys I have seen are pretty much a joke and I laugh violently every time I see pictures of guys in knife magazines in their little "open hand by my cheek" knife fighting stance. In order for a knife to work well as a weapon, it must be used as an extension of the body and that first requires that you know how to fight empty handed. Any idiot can use a knife against an unarmed man, even if the unarmed man is "trained in knife fighting". The best thing to do in any situation like this is to RUN. Don't be a hero. In a knife fight everyone gets cut up 99 times out of 100.

Sorry for ranting...
Cam
 
Orion,
I don't think whoever said that was refering to Martial Artists in a Dojo or Pros in the ring.
The impression I get from that statement is of the guy who likes to "git all likker'd up" and go down to the local dive to prove he's the toughest guy in the house by beating some poor hapless schmoe half to death.
The other thought that occurs to me is,
If you are in a fight, (street violence in your specialized parlance) you've made a mistake. You've done something wrong.
GENERALLY, this is true.
With forethought and a "Tactical mindset" (I hate that expresssion) 99.99 percent of all fights can be totally avoided.
It's that .01 percent that gets even the best of us though.

You have to remember, to those of us that do NOT make our living (or any part of it) in the ring, the word "fight" has a totally different meaning. It's not something we do every day.
I duel with live steel rapiers. I don't call it fighting because I'm not trying to kill or even DAMAGE my opponent.
Duel probably isn't the right word either, but it does not evoke the same mental image as "fight" does.

The one statement you make that I flat disagree with is where you say, "Any idiot cna use a knife against an unarmed man..."
Not exactly ANY idiot.
While it's not something I'd want to do, I feel that I could handle most people who were of a sort to attack an unarmed man with a knife.
Of course,
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There are ALWAYS exceptions.


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Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
 
Ken-

We've had guys come in the dojo... kali, escrima, arnis experts... looking to train. The subject always comes up with these guys. They all think they are trained to take a knife away from an inexperienced schmoe and escape unharmed. Here's the drill... we give one of our guys a magic marker and let them go at it. The kali guy looks like the Sistine Chapel when it's all said and done. Of course, he's going up against guys that are trained to FIGHT, not karate guys or traditional martial arts guys or unskilled retards. Nevertheless, if a man is unarmed and the opponent has a knife, the odds are against the unarmed man regardless of the skill of either man.
To explain my definition of "fight" a little more thoroughly... growing up it was always the same. Two guys had a beef at school and met at the softball field after school to settle it. No weapons, no buddies jumping in, no sneak attacks. It was a fight. Granted, I grew up in a small Southern town and not a big city where the attitude is different.... At any rate, a "fight" to me is an altercation where both parties are in agreement. Any instance where one party is not in agreement, such as a mugging, is not a fight but street violence. Granted it can and often does resemble a "fight", but the stakes are higher and there are way more variables.
I totally agree with you though... when you find yourself in a situation like that, you are more than likely someplace you should not be hanging out with people you should not be hanging out with doing something you probably should not be doing. I will avoid a street "fight" at all costs. I fight in the ring (and anyway, since I turned pro, I don't fight for free!!!
wink.gif
).
I have never done any sword work. I have a rather large sword collection (mostly wall hangers but I have a few semi-real katanas and a Del Tin rapier) and have always been interested in that type of stuff. There is just no where around here for good instruction or people to interact with on that level.

Peace-
Cam
 
Orion,

Let us know when you are going to be on the tube. At least we'll know who to cheer for.

N2S
 
General, I don't think you would have made it in my neighborhood. Where I live you can tell alot about the character of a man by how he reacts to a challenge. If he runs away, or is reluctant, or confident and steadfast speaks volumes. I have seen men stand up to someone they could'nt possibly beat, but they gained more respect by doing so than any amount of diplomacy could have earn. Of course everybody knows us Southern boys are inferior and lackluster.

BTW, getting shot by a thief for your wallet is not fighting, it's murder. And that is not what I'm talking about.

[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 01-10-2001).]
 
Thank You Orion!

I think you may well be the only one who has come close to understanding what I'm talking about. I have a four inch scar on my left shoulder; I wish I didn't! Fighting changes your prespective, that's all. I love this forum and I'm staying!

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Fear Is The Mind Killer
 
Orion, not all FMA folks are the same. Contrary to popular belief, not everybody traps or does fancy stuff. Just like not all BJJ, Sambo, Submission fighting folks are the same. Also, I do not recall anyone saying not to use the knife as an extension of the body.

Only have one question, how did your guys do against the FMA visitors?



[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 01-10-2001).]
 
not2sharp-

Hopefully in June. I am fighting for my second professional title (6th in all) in April and if I do good there I have a shot at WEF. It will be on PPV in Japan, Brazil and Canada and they are working on a deal for the US. Hopefully in the UFC by end of the year. I only have a year or two left to fight. I'm getting too old for this $hit! I have not been on live "TV" yet, but there have been official videos released of some of the events I've fought in. I have a tape with all my fights on it. If you'd like a copy I can mail you one.
If you are interested, my fight record is listed here

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Guild/5750/M/mchargue.html

You can go here and see pics and descriptions of a fight I had in June in Gainesville, GA. Scroll down a little and you'll see them... There are also pictures of my team mate John Wehby there, too. He won the P.R.O. (Pro Rank Organization) welterweight title that night. I will be fighting for their middleweight title in April (it's vacant at the moment).

http://news.adcombat.com/auxnewspages/BattleBrigade9.html

"At least we'll know who to cheer for."

Let me guess.... you'll be cheering for my opponent?!?!?!?

Smoke-

I realize that not all FMA, or any other MA stylists, are all the same. I have met many that I have the utmost respect for but our meetings were on a social level, not in the training hall (I try not to call it a dojo very much because I try to break away from traditional traps).
As far as the FMA guys against our guys... I think the longest one of them lasted was about 2 and a half minutes. That was empty handed and only rules were no biting/no eye gouging. We also did a reversal of the magic marker drill where the FMA guy had the "knife" and our guy was empty handed. They all started out the same... FMA guy getting rocked pretty good with leg kicks but once the guy caught on to the leg kicking game it was on the ground. FMA guys still got whipped but our guys would be pretty marked up. We don't train at all with weapons. We were only doing this marker drill for their benefit. Some of them had the potential to be very good but their egos get the best of them. They show up once or twice and we never see them again.

Peace-
Cam
 
Orion thanks. I hate it when the egos set in because then nobody learns from the experience.

To reciprocate, the only guys from other arts who stayed to train with my teacher were the folks who like to compete in sporting fights or who've went through other arts.

[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 01-10-2001).]
 
I've never heard of using a marker- a great idea. Normally we use rubber knives. It's not a matter of IF you get cut in these exercises, but how badly (occasionally someone will disable an attacker without getting "cut", but it's rare). When we train against knives, it isn't very pretty. Fancy takeaways just don't happen in realistic scenarios- I don't care how long you practice your techniques. Not that learning pre-set self-defense techniques are all bad. I think there is much value in any discipline and the individual techniques they have to offer.

Okay, here comes the rant....

Why is there so much egotism and scathing intolerance among martial artists (people who call themselves "fighters" are still martial artists, by definition). Everyone is talking about how inferior this or that is. The stories are all the same- "some guy from (fill in the blank) style came into my dojo/dojang/training hall and we beat the crap out of him and he ran away with his tail between his legs. MY style is far superior". Martial arts, self-defense, any kind of fighting training is about LEARNING. It's not about proving how tough you are. I don't get it.

Furthermore, a style cannot be judged by the quality of one (or many persons) within that style. Martial artist should be judged on their skill, character and discipline- regardless of what the sign above his/her training hall says.



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John Gonzalez
Exclusive Dealer
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works
 
Kumdo-

All Mustangs are Fords but not all Fords are Mustangs.
In that sense, you are correct... all fighters are martial artists but not all martial artists are fighters. Because of what martial arts has become since its bastardization in America (speaking primarily of arts of Asian origin), I prefer to be called a fighter and not lump myself in with the "martial artists".
Since this thread has wandered from the topic, I will email you my full retort.

Peace-
Cam
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Orion:
...Since this thread has wandered from the topic...</font>
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I agree. I do not see any useful purpose to continuing this thread anymore so I am closing it now. If you disagree and give me a good reason to reopen or move it to the tactical forums, email me

Paracelsus

 
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