Finally time to buy a grinder, BUT......need advice

I have a kmg and I built a nwg. I use both of them and the kmg is astronomically better than the nwg. I can't speak about any of the others that you have mentioned, but if it is between the kmg and the nwg, you should pony up for the kmg.

Step pulleys are similar to the gears on a ten speed bike. They aren't as good as a vfd, but you can control your belt speed somewhat. I have step pulleys on both of my grinders. They are much cheaper than a vfd. I also have 1 1/2 horse motors from grizzly, they were 220.00 a piece.
 
Sweet. I'm sure I will have more questions, but i am hoping I can just do something like that, to save some money. Unless for some reason, the VFD is crazy better and really worth the extra cash....

Thanks Ultrahesh, that sounds fantastic so far!
 
You need a 3 phase motor with VFD, a 1 phase with step pulleys. You can buy these from a different source than Beaumont (KMG). Most people say VFD's are crazy better. (probably due to efficiency rather than improving the quality of what you make). You will need a TEFC motor and the shaft will need to fit the pulley. I have bought 4 motors on Ebay (Baldor 3 phase 1.5-3HP) - avg price $95 with shipping (new), VFD's are $140 to about $400 for the high quality nema 4 enclosed. A VFD can't be the open style without a second enclosure or remote location - they don't like metal dust and particles (same as the motor). I guess what I am saying is that if you are thrifty and had the right setup a VFD w/motor could be as cheap as pulleys/w more expensive single phase motor.

Anyway, I am sure you will be happy with whatever route you take. Just trying to give you some of the basics.
 
Okay, cool. I am liking the idea of just getting a cheaper motor like the one described above, but do i need to look for a motor with a certain size shaft now? I am sure I can find a cheap motor on craigslist, but how about the shaft? I want to make sure I understand this right. The KMG says that it has a 3/4" drive shaft (keyed).....I am guessing I need to find a motor that would work with that size shaft?

I would rather stay away from VFD for now I guess, if I am looking at that kind of money. And, unless I NEED a VFD for some expensive reason, I don't see why the pulleys will work fine, I think?

Oh, and as far as staying cheap goes, for now, what would you recommend I need on the grinder, as far as wheel,platen,etc.
I was thinking just the platen attachment for now? But, do I need a wheel?
If i don't, i can just start making knives with the platen. But, what do you guys use your wheels for? Other than hollow grinding, that is.
And, i like the small wheel attachment too. So, really, i know I will need the platen, probably a wheel(10? 8?), and the small wheel attachment. But, I am trying to stay cheap for now, and as I make more knives and sell them, I will attain more parts as I need them. SO, what do you say about starting with minimum tool arms? I would like to hear what you think about it. I will start another thread if i need to, but i figured it was pretty relevant. Thanks guys.

dave
 
I made plenty of knives with just a platen. The great thing about the typical platen setups is that you can remove the platen face to give access to a slack belt for things like handle shaping.

The VFD is a nice feature as you can completely control your speed, and it's super fast to change speeds, but I'd say the step pulleys are the way to go if you're staying economical. You can do most everything you need with step pulleys, and you save a bit of money and time in setup. The one phase motors are pretty much plug and go. If you're running on 110V, 1.5hp is about your upper limit.

I'd say if you are going to go the KMG route (have one and love it), go for the flat platen. You can do everything you need to do to make a knife on the platen. The large wheels are handy for hogging steel (the rubber lets the belt get a better bite) and for hollow grinding, and some makers use them for handle shaping. Personally, I don't really use the wheel except to finish the spine and handle edges as I do mostly full flat grinds. Later on, you can pick up a small wheel attachment which is very nice for things like finger grooves, handle shaping, etc. However, for now, you can get by with a nice half round file and a dowel with sandpaper.

I also have a GIB, and it's a good unit, but it's a bit more trouble to source and order all the parts.

--nathan
 
Okay, great! That is kind of what i was looking for. Btw, to I need anything else like drive wheels or tracking wheels if I order this? http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/index.html
I know i will start reading about different motors, and maybe even be able to find a cheap one for free around my way, and of course the belt for the motor, and the 3 step pulleys. But, basically, what else will I NEED to start running the grinder? Thanks so far for all the help.

dave
 
The 3/4" pulley you will use on the KMG drive shaft, It will depend on your motor but 1.5 HP is typically 5/8" (like on KMG site) Do you have 110 or is 220 available? (I moved my 1.5hp motor to my disc grinder and got a 3 HP for my KMG - I imagine 2 hp is plenty but you will need 220 to run one). The 8" wheel would be nice for profiling your knife to shape. You don't need drive or tracking wheels, they come with it. Just a set of the correct pulleys, a TEFC 1 phase motor, an electrical cord and plug, an on/off switch, belt for pulley and metal plate or design for how you will mount the motor (I went w the KMG motor mount plate - but now I could make my own) Some people mount the motor on a hinge. David
 
Nathan, thanks! I will definitely get the platen package then, if I run out of cash for the wheel, but I'll know soon enough how that will work out.

David, I am currently only set up for power from my house, I believe is 110v. If all goes well, I will move into a small shop with 220, but there is no real way of knowing when that will happen, so my backyard will have to do for now haha. And thats great that the grinder already comes with the tracking and drive wheels. I figured I might need a wheel, so if funds allow I will pick up the package with the platen, and the 8" wheel.

Any idea where I can look at pulleys?
Nevermind, i just found them at USA Knifemaker...and I already have the extension cord! lol

And, I saw motors from 1hp, 1.5, and 2hp at harbor freight for decent price. But, are you saying I won't be able to find one with 3/4" shaft? I would like to know why it is better to have higher hp, like some of you with your 3hp monsters, what is the benefit? I assume I want the more the better, but not sure why. What is the best choice for 110v?
And, if it is somewhat easy to do, I will see about the hinge to move the grinder to horizontal, but i have not researched this enough yet, although I don't see what would be so hard about it. So far so good i think!

dave

And, I have to know......Why all the hype of a VFD? Is it that much better? doesn't matter for me though, I don't think I can afford one too soon, but just curious. Thanks again as usual.
 
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I LOVE my VFD. Total control of speed for precision grinding. And I'm a lazy SOB :D. A flip of the switch, a twist of the dial, and I'm going. The biggest bonus is the complete control over speed. You can get it done with step pulleys. You just don't have the adjustability. But heck, I ground a bunch of knives with nothing but a Grizzly grinder running balls-out at the speed of sound.

You'd be pushing it with anything more than 1.5 hp on 110V most likely. Bigger hp equals more power for hogging steel. When you start grinding larger knives such as bowies with lots of contact surface on the platen, you're going to start bogging your motor. I can slow down my 2hp motors if I push hard enough when doing heavy work. But, if you're pushing that hard, you're probably pushing harder than you need to. 1.5 is more than enough to get started with.

--nathan
 
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For me most of my tooling arms are 1 1/4" square bar (Bader) again I'm not suggesting
any one grinder. Theres always going to be more to want, I'm obviously a terrible tool
whore. The more you have won't make better stuff just possibly a bit faster. It has taken
me a lot of years to accumulate what I have. A platen and an 8" or 10" wheel would be
my first choices, with a variable reversing disc right up there.
Ken.
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Just get a 1.5 HP motor, Baldor and Leeson are the standards, But it needs to be TEFC or (TENV? I think) - ENCLOSED, so I doubt the Harbor Freight is a TEFC but it might be. Shaft size doesn't mater except it may make you search harder for your step pulley. Beaumont Metal can answer many of your questions also. I am just trying to get you to not make too many mistakes along the way because there are a lot of details to getting you up and running.
David
 
Okay guys, thanks. I am starting to get it now. More cool toys = faster, but not necessarily better. And, VFD, just turn on and go.
But then again, what does it take to change to different pulleys for different speeds? Im thinking just take off belt and pop back on desired pulley? That can't be that bad...
Yea, the HF motors definitely were not enclosed. Just curious now, so don't beat me up, what about making an enclosure for it, out of plastic, wood, or even metal? But then again, perhaps where the shaft meets the motor, dust might be able to still get in?

And, okay, I am now looking for a decent 1.5hp motor with 3/4" shaft......thanks for all the advice, and trying to make my life easier.
dave

Ken, man, thats a lot of cool toys....maybe one day!
 
You just need a TEFC motor. Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled. Some guys succesfully run an open motor by blowing the motor out with a compressor every once in awhile to clear the metal dust it's not ideal. The motor frame number dictates shaft size and other specs like center to center on bolt patterns. Google , motor frame chart, and you'll know what motors have what shafts. Example. A 56C motor will have a 5/8" shaft. You need a 56C for a GIB build. It also has 4 tapped screw holes on the face but a footed base is optional.
120v and an extension cord will limit you to 1.5hp max. Even then you might blow the circuit if you ate powering anything else on that circuit.
In simple terms, Think of electricity as water. A 1/2"x1' pipe will allow more water flow than a 1/2"x100' pipe due to friction. A similar thing occurs with electricity. If you want more water flow you need a bigger pipe. You'll need a bigger extension cord for longer draws of power.
Changing step pulleys is easy. 30 seconds. A VFD is 1 second...
My opinion AFTER reading all your posts etc is that you'd be best served with a ready made machine.
Look at Wilmont grinders too. Chris builds a GIB/EERF type grinder already built.
 
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5/8" is a more typical shaft size I think for the motor but I see USA is out of stock on the 5/8" pulley.
 
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Okay thanks for explaining.
I love those Wilmont grinders. In fact, I watched like 3 videos, before I realized they were WAY out of my price range lol!
So far, it seems all the this type of motor are 5/8 shaft. I guess I will see if USA is getting any more pulleys in, or Beaumont actually looks like they have the pulley too. Can i just put this pulley onto any used motor i find that is, lets say 1.5hp with a 5/8 shaft? And then the 3/4 pulley im assuming will just go right on to the grinder shaft...

this doesn't seem too bad. So far, I will decide on a grinder package, but other than that the hardest part is putting a pulley on the shafts of the motor and grinder? It just HAS to be harder than this.....am i missing something?

hahaha, i was just about to say while watching those Wilmont vids: maybe I should forget this expensive KMG thing, then i found the price tag.....oh silly me..
but hey, got a great easy way for the horizontal feature!

thanks
dave
 
Oh, and is there a "flipping platen" or something similar for the KMG? (like the GIB or Pheer has)
I like the idea of maybe being able to buy or make something with a platen, and a smaller and larger wheel. Any suggestions?
They have one on the KMG site, but it doesn't look like it has a platen.
Also, if i was to go with the platen package only, could I take off the platen to use as a Slack belt attachment?

I am just trying to think of ways to get versatility while keeping costs down if at all possible. If I can find a rotary attachment with platen, large wheel, and smallish wheel, i think that might cut out some cost. Just thinking really, i guess.:cool:

edit: of course, now i am also going to have to see about getting one of those buffing attachments Salem!
 
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I love my NWG, I would do it all again.

Next, I would get another machine - not sure which one, though. Here's what I have so far.

I've spent as much time building my NWG as I have making knives. Here are a few views of the grinder and some of the accessories.

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I love this thing. EA.
 
Wow Erik. Where to start.....First, could you estimate about how much money and time you have in that grinder? It looks sweet!
and, you sure got a lot of cool toys on that thing..:thumbup::D
Oh, and that stand is just crazy cool. Where the heck did you get that?
 
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