Finally time to buy a grinder, BUT......need advice

Hey Dave,

I imagine I have around $1500-$1700 in that grinder. The time would be really hard to estimate but it is a lot. I do not consider it a money saver, because of how much time I have in it. I enjoy building things so this was a good fit for me. I don't know you, but my recommendation would be a GIB or a KMG. If you lose interest, you could always sell those easily, and you won't have a lot of time invested. My next grinder will be plug and play with a VFD. The stand is a truck brake drum welded to a plate, drive shaft and another plate. My friend gave it to me and 2 others, so that was free. I added the motor mount. It makes a good space saver set up that way.

Good luck with whatever you do.
 
I bought the NWG Frame Kit thinking that I'd save the hassle of trying to fabricate something myself . In retrospect I would have got the GIB as I've spent enough time messing with it that I could've easily tapped all those holes but I figured I might screw it up so I bought something that just had to be assembled .The NWG is what it looks like a bunch of steel tubing put together , people who built their own may have not experienced the problems I have. The GIB design seems more solid to me and it's direct drive which saves a lot of alignment issues . I would've got a KMG if they were available in Canada, any kit grinder can cause a lot of problems depending on your skills in which I am lacking . . Things like holes tapped off of line, loose tolerances in holes drilled , things not square to begin with cause a lot of headaches when trying to line things up. I may have just gotten unlucky ,coupled with my inexperience with these things .

Like has been mentioned before it doesn't take much to cause a lot of time and pain in the ass troubleshooting to get proper alignment and tracking with a home built grinder , there are so many variables to consider to where the problem is coming from. Maybe people don't post threads about problems they've had since it's there own build . Some people can build great grinders that track perfect and run well and as Erik showed the NWG can be made into an awesome machine . I just wouldn't personally recommend it , at least not the frame kit from my experience if you expect just to throw it to together , tighten a few screws and have a perfectly running machine . I would get the KMG and add accessories as you get funds , the less time building or tweaking means more time to make knives . The headache of buying a grinder that doesn't run good and trying to fix it when you lack the skills can suck all the fun out of knifemaking . I have made knives with just files and then a Craftsman 2x42 but as soon as I got a 2x72 knifemaking has turned into grinder fixing .
 
Wow, Erik thats funny, considering I didn't even realize the stand was from a truck, and I used to be a truck mechanic...:eek:
Damn, thats alot of cash you got into that thing, but man, it is freaking awesome!....:thumbup:
BTW, what is that yellow material you are using for your tool rest? that looks cool!

Duffy, man, I am sorry to hear about your unfortunate experience with the NWG. It is a bit disheartening to hear that, but I appreciate you being up front with me, and I do hope you get things worked out quick. If I were you, personally I would beg someone who is great at these things, to come over and have a look at it. Maybe they would be able to straighten things out within a few minutes, as I have seen with other things and guys that really know what they are doing. Can't hurt.
It seems that the NWG definitely needs more work to get it right, than the others from what I have read so far. I actually love the look of the simple steel square tubing frame, but yea, I need to stick to something I won't have to worry too much about. I can definitely see pulling my hair out when i turn the grinder on, and it started shooting belts across the room or something. :rolleyes:

It seems a tiny bit more expensive, but I think I will go with the KMG setup with the flat platen for now, and like you guys said, add more as I go along. And, after reading that Duffy, I might even spring for the mounting plate for extra 115 bucks, and not worry about tapping a hole that is not perfect or something similar.
And, so far I haven't had too much luck locating a motor with 3/4 shaft, and 1.5 hp for the KMG setup, but I am still looking, and won't stop till I find one! I just rather not pay for a brand new one..When, I will probably upgrade to a VFD later on anyways. Just something used and cheap for now to run it from and extension cord from the house.
And, again, do the pulleys just mount to the shaft on the motor and the shaft on the grinder with a simple bolt? And, how do I line up the motor with the pulleys on grinder, so everything is perfect when the belt runs? Is there a special trick for this? Or do I just bolt down the grinder, and then move the motor into position with the belt laying on it, for a rough by eye position with a square? Although it could be that the baseplate has the holes, so maybe I answered that question already myself...Thanks again, I think I have most of what i need on my list.

dave
 
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So far, this is my current list:

KMG-PL package:http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/kmg-pl.html .........$750
4 step pulley for grinder, 3/4" shaft size: $36
4 step pulley for motor, 1/2" shaft size: $36
base plate for mounting: $115
link belt Fenner: $12

Total: $949

Still have to buy:
Motor: not yet found.....? I am trying to go used, cheap here....hopefully 100 bucks or less for temporary until i upgrade to VFD.
Switch? do i need one of some kind?
Belts, material, steel, etc.
Miscallaneous bolts, washers, whatever i need to make grinder run!
I already have tons of sandpaper, files.
still need quite a lot, but that is the fun part!
I am thinking, maybe if Beaumont lets me, change out the metal wheels on the platen for rubber contact wheels? Then I will have a 2" wheel too!??
Or again, maybe I can buy a rotary platen or flipping platen from somewhere else and forget the platen attachment from KMG? Since KMG rotary platen doesn't have a platen(it seems, just wheels).
I like the idea of a flipping platen with 2 different size wheels, but don't know if i should mix and match parts from different grinders......Does anyone else?
Or, even like I said, the platen with 2" rubber wheels, so I can use for grinding, platen, and slack belt if I take off the platen? that is, if I can do that with that one.
Please, any ideas are appreciated. Or is my best bet just use the platen with metal wheels, and buy more and more attachments with the KMG?(again, very expensive this way)

Please help remind me of anything else I will need to start grinding blades!
 
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Dave, I think you are going in the right direction

$100 for a 1 phase motor will be tough unless you get really lucky. I got a 1.5 and a 2 HP for $100 and $150, respectively on eBay, but I searched hard and did get lucky. The 1.5HP on the page JGguns listed may be the way to go. The 8" poly wheel at USA knifemaker is a little over $100 and it's very nice to have a contact wheel for hogging and other stuff. Beaumont will change wheels, call them. You only need one rubber contact wheel on your platen set up, on top. You don't want a rotary platen out of the gate, IMO.

You need a switch. Get one rated for motors, not lights. Search the subject and you should find plenty of info. You are going to buy a KMG, call them (Rob?) and I bet they will answer all of your questions.
 
Erik, that is just too cool! I really love that stand. Is the height adjustable on it? What do you mean by "motor mount" and where do I get one? What did you use for that adjustable rotatable tool rest/table and where do I get one of those too?
 
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Hey Phil, thank you.

I made the motor mount out of some plate, square tubing, a section of a SCUBA cylinder, a big bolt, etc and welded it up. You can't get one, but you could make one. I did find a 56c-face motor mount on ebay some time after that would have saved some time, but I would have still needed to mount it to the "arm" or "lever."

That adjustable tool rest is some phenolic bolted to a small cheapo drill press stand/table that I pulled the drill head off and cut down. It's bolted to a square tubing arm.

No adjustment on the stand height. Fortunately, it my friend made it at the right height for me. Sometimes I sit and sometimes I stand.

Take care.
 
Okay guys....I think this may work for a motor?
I went to Harbor Freight today, and this is what i found...First one is a 2 hp, rated for 115v, so I think I can use this, but not sure. What you think? The second, is a 1.5 hp for 115v, both NEMA 1 i believe, and I am considering building an enclosure for it myself.
First, 2 hp: 1725 rpm, but with a 7/8 shaft size. Didn't see that step pulley on USA knifemaker site.
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Second, 1.5 hp: 3450 rpm, with a 5/8 shafy
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Will this work with the KMG?
Will I need a longer shaft, or will this shaft be fine? And, will the pulleys from USA knifemaker work with this?
Again, i know I will need to make an enclosure for it, Im sure I will find a link of someone else that did it. Again, it is to keep costs down. I am sure I will upgrade to a VFD later. Thanks.
I will be ordering everything in the next day or two hopefully. And, tomorrow I will also call Beaumont. So far, how am I looking? If this motor is no good, I will keep looking!
Man, I am really excited about this!

dave
 
Shaft length will be fine. I have no idea if anyone has used an open motor with any success. I would guess the Harbor Freight motors will not have as much power as stated, and I don't believe you can get 2 HP off 115V if that is what you plan to use. McMaster-Carr may have the pulley you need. How about a motor repair place, ebay etc for a motor? You can search single phase. I know single phase are expensive because they are in more demand than 3 phase, particularly TEFC and TENV.

1750rpm motors are more typical for the KMG rather than 3450rpm. Just remembered you are doing pulleys, double check shaft length with KMG.
 
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A few years ago I went ahead and purchased my first grinder. I had enough saved up to get a KMG, with an extra tooling arm and some doodads. One thing that KMG has is astronomical customer service. Last summer my grinder started acting funny, almost like the belt was slipping. It wasn't, so I contacted Rob at KMG, he had me send the VFD in, they tested it for 5 days straight, couldn't find anything wrong with it, and STILL sent me a brand new VFD "just in case". It worked, and that little stunt earned my business for life methinks.
 
If your going to use a direct drive shaft sizes on the motor and pulley do not need to be the same. You can order love-joy couplings that are the appropriate sizes and they will still mesh together fine. Just make sure the mesh measurements are the same.
 
You are looking at the wrong motors. You don't want an "Open Drip Proof" enclosure. You want a "Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled" (TEFC) motor. Harbor Freight only sells one of those that I know, and it's the 1HP model I bought.

- Greg
 
Okay guys.....thanks so far and thanks for your patience with me. I was looking on FleaBay for some, and I saw some decent TEFC ones. I will try to post a link of one I am trying to decide on.......oh, the stress.....
 
d.weglarz13 said:
Okay guys.....thanks so far and thanks for your patience with me. I was looking on FleaBay for some, and I saw some decent TEFC ones. I will try to post a link of one I am trying to decide on.......oh, the stress.....
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I just found this thread trying to research all the same information you are. So, you're not alone. That was after finally figuring out ( I didn't figure anything out...not w/o gracious help from Kyley from ckc) that I'd be wasting my time and money for anything less than a 2x72 machine, as I had been looking at 1x42. It's a tough call. There really seems to be no comprimise, as most of what I have read from others is; you end up spending more down the road replacing cheaper grinders. I have to admit I'm disappointed regarding what you have to spend for a plug and play grinder w/ variable speed. Which makes the pheer grinders an interesting option. More research. ^ - All I know is; I've been through 3 or 4 hand files, and enough sand paper that Obama probably has people after me.

I was hoping to stay under 500.00, yeah... right. As I also need a drill press.

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the info and good advice, as well as yourself for starting the thread, saving me more time. (I think this is the 3rd knife forum in 3 days, my own fault, I was asking the wrong questions)

Best of luck to you, sir.
 
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Hey thanks Frank. Yea, you got it right. As you said, it takes a good amount of cash for any real grinder you plan on using to grind blades everyday, like I plan. Yup, the files and sandpaper have really been getting to me lately, and I need to finally get a serious grinder. So, I am looking to order this in the next day or two, but got a bit tied down with other things, especially building a new shop in the backyard for my worK! I will post some pics of the new shop when I get some time tomorrow. I just got to fill her up with tools and knives now!!! :D
Oh, and i am really getting jealous of everyone and their VFDs.....oh well, im sticking with staying cheaper for now!
Good luck Frank, and thanks to everyone else for everything so far. I will post with my final order hopefully tomorrow, and let you guys know what will be in the mail in the next couple days!!!(darn, probably Monday actually, forgot its the weekend :eek:....to wrapped up with this to think about anything else right now! :thumbup:

dave
 
d.weglarz13 said:
Hey thanks Frank. Yea, you got it right. As you said, it takes a good amount of cash for any real grinder you plan on using to grind blades everyday, like I plan. Yup, the files and sandpaper have really been getting to me lately, and I need to finally get a serious grinder. So, I am looking to order this in the next day or two, but got a bit tied down with other things, especially building a new shop in the backyard for my worK! I will post some pics of the new shop when I get some time tomorrow. I just got to fill her up with tools and knives now!!! :D
Oh, and i am really getting jealous of everyone and their VFDs.....oh well, im sticking with staying cheaper for now!
Good luck Frank, and thanks to everyone else for everything so far. I will post with my final order hopefully tomorrow, and let you guys know what will be in the mail in the next couple days!!!(darn, probably Monday actually, forgot its the weekend :eek:....to wrapped up with this to think about anything else right now! :thumbup:

dave
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Yeah, I think building a variable speed 2x72 is the way to go. There's different kits/plans out there, I'll have to find out which is the best way to go. I just haven't been able to find user feedback on Pheer grinders, which is also a homemade set up, or i may have pulled the trigger already. But, I'm glad I didn't rush out and buy junk while uninformed. I'm anxious to get going, and almost did just that. Best of luck, Dave.
 
KHDaily said:
I got a 2HP inverter duty motor here. Seems pretty good for a china motor. With the price I should be able to get most of my money back in scrap if it doesn't last that long. :D

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Motors/AC_Motors_-_General_Purpose_and_Inverter_Duty_(0.25_-_300HP)/AC_Motors-General_Purpose,_Rolled_Steel,_IronHorse_(0.33_-_2HP)/3-Phase_Motors,_56C_(0.33_-_2HP)/MTR-002-3BD36
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Old thread, I know, but that means hopefully you've had some time to test this motor out..

How is it holding up?
 
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