Finish changing from ball bearing pivot to bronze washer.

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Alan, you have your critics here not doubt. I have said before I applaud your persistence. I truely do not think you understand steel and their use in knives. Certainly not metallurgy and how it applies to cutlery A blade does not need to be a “super steel” to be good but it surely needs a proper heat treat to work. I can sharpen a piece of tin into a razor but that does not mean it will make a great knife. I hope this serves you well but you do perhaps need to accept there are a good number of people here who have offers you sound and reasonable advice (and some less forgiving) who know far far more than you average bunny about all things knife and the physics of such. Good luck on your endeavours.
 
Andy the Aussie said:
Alan, you have your critics here not doubt. I have said before I applaud your persistence. I truely do not think you understand steel and their use in knives. Certainly not metallurgy and how it applies to cutlery A blade does not need to be a “super steel” to be good but it surely needs a proper heat treat to work. I can sharpen a piece of tin into a razor but that does not mean it will make a great knife. I hope this serves you well but you do perhaps need to accept there are a good number of people here who have offers you sound and reasonable advice (and some less forgiving) who know far far more than you average bunny about all things knife and the physics of such. Good luck on your endeavours.
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It all depends on what is a knife serve for different individuals. Like I said many times, A knife is a survival tool and and self defense tool. Edge retention is of no importance to me. When I bought a knife, I shred paper to test the sharpness, then I NEVER use it to cut anything IF I can help it. It's only for one time use when it matters and my life depends on it.

This means blade not breaking is a lot more important. So I choose softer material like this one that is 58-59HRc. I don't want any harder than that. It's 8Cr, on the cheap side, but not the lowest like the 5 or 7.


I can think of a similar situation for cars. for performance, you can't beat a Ferrari, it runs circles around a cheap Toyota. BUT for someone that want reliability and safety, Toyota beats the Ferrari hands down. I am looking for safety and reliability, so I pick a Toyota. FYI, I was very into cars, I did a lot of research to say this. You buy a Ferrari, you better buy something like a Toyota as back up when the Ferrari breaks down......and it will.

To each their own, it's not I don't listen to people here. But I have been explaining my purpose for having a knife, it's very different from most people here. So their suggestions do not fit me. There got to be some people here that think like me. I know a few friends carrying a knife for self defense only. Most of us don't go to the wild that need a knife to do a lot of stuffs. We live in big cities where crime and car accident is more likely. So to each their own. I do practice with a plastic knife slashing and shanking on my heavy kicking bag at home. Nothing is worst thinking that carrying a knife will save you without practicing. I carry a walking cane everywhere I go....not for walking. I practice stick fight for 3yrs, I beat on the heavy kicking bag too to practice. It would be a big mistake carrying a weapon but not practicing it, thinking it can safe their lives.
 
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Danke42 said:
If you have a $13 life get a $13 knife.
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You read about the design of this knife in post #1 and #13? I stand by my analysis with physics.

Give me an example of an expensive knife that is superior than this one for what I want. I might consider. Money is NOT an issue as these are relative cheap stuffs even at $200 each, I just look at what is important for me. Honestly, I look at enough of expensive ones and are no where close.

I spent a lot of time watching knife disassembly videos on youtube to judge.
 
Danke42 said:
If you have a $13 life get a $13 knife.
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Look at this knife, over $200, this is the closest to what I want, tanto blade with thick blade all the way to the tip. strong liners, no weak point at the pivot, not using ball bearings. The Lever distance is OK.

BUT, look at the picture carefully. there is a gap in the wrong direction where the liner lock engage the tank like I drew. THIS IS BAD WORKMANSHIP, FOR A $200 KNIFE.

You still think paying more is better. I'd bet on my $13 knife any time of the day over this one.



Here is the video. The image is taken at time 16:31

 
TheOne45 said:
I didn't get that.
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I just happen to find a disassembly video of a very expensive knife that potentially fit what I want in the design in post #26. BUT you see the gap between the tank and the liner lock? It's not as bad if the gap is on the opposite end, but this end spells disaster.

Of my 30+ knives that none is close to that price, I yet to see such SCREW UP. They have no quality control. So much for an expensive knife. All my cheaper knives engage at that end of the liner from looking at the wear mark( I actually use marker on the liner, put back, open and close many times, then check the wear on the market to make sure the angle is correct). This is too obvious a problem they should have caught.
 
Alan,
I enjoy reading your posts. I learned a lot from your posts and I mean a lot.
Now all those things are much clearer to me and I will take your studies into account when buying a new knife.
Looks like I had something in my subconscious because I refused to buy expensive knives and I had no clue why. Now I know why.
Now I know, the distances are important... from stop pin to liner lock. I got it. The lever and perhaps antilever (not yet 100% sure about antilever). Like matter and antimatter. All to be in balance.
 
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TheOne45 said:
Alan,
I enjoy reading your posts. I learned a lot from your posts and I mean a lot.
Now all those things are much clearer to me and I will take your studies into account when buying a new knife.
Looks like I have something in my subconscious because I refused to buy expensive knives and I had no clue why. Now I know why.
Now I know, the distances are important... from stop pin to liner lock. I got it. The lever and perhaps antilever. Like matter and antimatter. All to be in balance.
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It's from blade stop to pivot center, and liner lock contacting point to the tank to pivot center. It's very simple physics as I put the link in post #1.

I don't mind paying more if I find something good. It's NOT that expensive even if it's $200+.

Another thing that goes against expensive knives as they use harder steel for edge retention, but that doesn't make the blade tougher( for prying, it can crack).

I have open mind, I just want to get the best FOR MY PURPOSE, I do not speak for anyone else here.

Thanks
 
alan0354 said:
Look at this knife, over $200, this is the closest to what I want, tanto blade with thick blade all the way to the tip. strong liners, no weak point at the pivot, not using ball bearings. The Lever distance is OK.

BUT, look at the picture carefully. there is a gap in the wrong direction where the liner lock engage the tank like I drew. THIS IS BAD WORKMANSHIP, FOR A $200 KNIFE.

You still think paying more is better. I'd bet on my $13 knife any time of the day over this one.



Here is the video. The image is taken at time 16:31

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That pic is of the knife half disassembled, no? Yup, there's going to be gaps when you do that.
 
craytab said:
That pic is of the knife half disassembled, no? Yup, there's going to be gaps when you do that.
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Look closely, blade on pivot, AND you can clearly see the stop pin hole is perfect alignment with the blade stop point.

This means the blade is in perfect alignment already. look at the gap at the bottom compare to the top. the top tank is touching the liner lock, BUT THE BOTTOM HAS A GAP. IT IS SO OBVIOUSLY OFF.

You think I don't take all these into consideration before I posted? Look carefully again,.
 
alan0354 said:
Yes, testing is a way, but one can look at the design to predict also. This is an article talking about LEVER action

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever

If you look at the internal picture in the 1st post, I specifically labelled "LINER LEVER DISTANCE". There is physics behind this as LEVER action where the longer the distance, the less stress it put onto the liner. If you look at a lot of knives, a lot of them has very short distance in the 0.3" range. This one is particularly long of 0.49". I am still working on how the angle with respect to the pivot affect the outcome, but in general, the stress on the liner lock is 1/2 when the distance is doubled. The longer the "LINER LEVER DISTANCE", the less stress is on the liner. Actually looking at the picture on this is one of the reason why I took the chance to buy the first one to see. You'd be surprised a lot of so called "SURVIVAL" knives with thick blade, heavy and tough looking have very short "LINER LEVER DISTANCE" LIKE 0.3" or less.



Look at this survival knife, heavy, looks tough in the picture. But when I opened it up, looke at the "LINER LEVER DISTANCE" is ONLY 0.34" vs My knife of 0.46". Another thing is from pivot to the blade stop pin is only 0.46" vs my knife of 0.6".

You can see the tough knife put a lot more stress on both the blade stop pin and the liner lock.(assume the pivot angle is same which it is close looking at the picture).

It's not just the cost of the knife or what it advertised to be. One has to really look at the design. I put my bet on my cheap little knife over this heavy tough looking knife even though the liner is slightly thicker ( 0.01").

From calculation 0.6/0.46=1.304 times on the blade stop pin. 0.46/0.34=1.353 times on the liner lock when comparing the two. So even the cheap knife is smaller and thinner, BY DESIGN, it has about 1.3 times advantage over the heavy tough knife.

Also notice on the heavy knife, there is a big hole right under the thumb flipper tap at the base of the blade? That really weaken the blade when comes to prying. Look at the little cheap knife, sure the blade is thinner, but there is no holes on the blade.

Another thing, the liner of the cheap little knife has no cutouts to reduce the weight, the big heavy knife has cutout. That weaken the liner also. So even the thickness of the cheap knife is 0.045" thick vs 0.055" of the heavy knife, I am not sure the heaver knife as advantage as the blade is 3.5" long, that put more stress than a 3" blade on everything. Again, this is LEVER action.
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Yeah, I get how levers work but until you test the liner lock and it's "lever distance" all you have here is educated speculation. I'd also wager tang and liner lock face contact area plays a roll. That nedfloss knife has very little.

Btw, if you want people to take you more seriously, don't use nedfloss knives as examples, they all suck. And your lever distance is listed as .49 in the pic but you quote .46. Gotta keep all that engineering accurate.

Put your theory to the test. Video it as proof. It's the only way.
 
alan0354 said:
Yes, it's all physics. simple physics at that learning in HS, simple LEVER action like I posted the link in post #1. Simple physics. You must have studied that in HS.
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I never studied lever action in high school. We weren't allowed to carry rifles.
I did study leverage, and I also learned that eyeball tests are not very accurate, unlike a lever action rifle.
 
Banging blades together to determine hardness levels.

Believing whatever the ad copy from a Chinese knife manufacturer says about the HRC.

Comparing the quality of one Chinese gas station knife to another Chinese gas station knife (a $13 Chinese liner lock and a Chinese Ned Foss knife).

Judging the lockup of an Emerson by a single pic of a mostly disassembled knife.

Thinking you know more than a guy who has been designing and making knives for law enforcement and military personnel for over 4 decades (Emerson).

Insisting that you would prefer to trust your fingers to a $13 liner lock when prying and stabbing.


This just get more and more absurd. But hey, it is amusing 🤣.


There was a time, not too long ago, when I would have tried to have a serious discussion with Alan about his views and misconceptions about knives, but I tried that already in another thread, as have many others, and it's clear that Alan is ALWAYS right (in his own mind), and that anyone who disagrees is wrong, because it's physics!, and he's an "engineer" :rolleyes:.

All you can do is just sit back, read, and laugh. Heck, they're not my fingers.
 
alan0354 said:
Look closely, blade on pivot, AND you can clearly see the stop pin hole is perfect alignment with the blade stop point.

This means the blade is in perfect alignment already. look at the gap at the bottom compare to the top. the top tank is touching the liner lock, BUT THE BOTTOM HAS A GAP. IT IS SO OBVIOUSLY OFF.

You think I don't take all these into consideration before I posted? Look carefully again,.
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I don't think you have enough knife experience to know that a disassembled knife ain't gonna line up. If the gap is there when assembled, then we have something noteworthy.

This is where you need to recognize, many people here have way more experience than you. How many knives you disassembled? I've got a few hundred under my belt, and others here have way more. I can tell you 100% that you cannot draw the conclusion you have from a screen shot on the internet.

Keep it humble my man.
 
alan0354 said:
for one time use when it matters and my life depends on it
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....sorry Alan this is where I believe you are badly mistaken....this is from someone who has seen more edged weapon encounters than your average bunny (no not as a protagonist). Yes your knife MAY be sharp enough for one cut.......what however (likely) may happen is that first or second or third cut is across a material that is going to roll the edge right off a garbage soft steel blade, something like a leather jacket, zipper, belt, watch...all things in areas you will be targeting in such an encounter..... all of a sudden you are left with an edge that can no longer effectively make the cuts YOU are requiring of it. Yes your life may depend on it, and you have stacked the odds more against yourself. I am not an Emerson fan boy but he does make a more than useful tool. Just now you are not comparing Ferrari to Toyota. You are comparing Mercedes to Yugo (at best).
 
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