Finnish/Earlier Scandi axes - Kirves

[littleknife]

A-and,the one and only...http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18083

Where would we all be without ye olde vikingsword...Much tiresome militaria,taken VERY seriously,et c.,..but,some interesting things,and from fairly committed,serious people.Again,more Dutch altarpiece info...

And an interesting axe in post #6.Dating seemingly 15th c.,but given it's already complete,familiar even to us today shape,i'd be greatly surprised if a similar one wasn't used by every woodchopper in those areas for many,many years prior...

Great link, Jake.

And look at some of the axes with the longest sockets - they have additional langet-like metal strips added to hilt for protection.
Defeats the argument that collars developed as full wrap-around langets. Why bother, when you can much more easily attach metal strips to the haft - even to the haft of a collared axe.

 

[jake pogg]

Yessir,call it the gut-feeling,but from a smith's perspective the langettes,at least the long-flat kind(lets remember that any protrusions of the sides of an eye are technically langettes,Peterson's taxonomy of axes is actually based on that),are quite a different feature.
Yes,good eye,i also noted how on one or more they're welded to an already lenghened socket.

One of the things that struck me is how Modern many of those extended eyes looked...Very much like the later,18-19th c.c. Scandi broadaxes.
That book by Lars Enander(who used to be/maybe still is,the head-smith at GB),where he breaks down the construction details,he does so using one Very much like it for the illustrations...

https://www.amazon.com/Swedish-Blacksmithing-Book/dp/919756348X

 

[littleknife]

An early Scandinavian axe with a type of socket? Another piece of the puzzle?

From the journal London Archaeologist (Spring 2005, p.331), an "11th century Viking battle axe with an ornamented socket..."
https://docuri.com/viewer/web/viewer.html?file=https://docuri.com/downloadFile/59c1ebe7f581710b286e328c?preview=1#page=4&zoom=90,-137,367

Steve, good find!

I wonder if the socket is integral to the axe head or just a separate metal band slipped into the eye akin to the protective sleeve of this Craftsman hammer:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-16-o...SellerId=Sears&prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3

Or the Gransfor Bruk’s Outdoor Axe:

https://www.gransforsbruk.com/app/uploads/2014/11/425-outdoor-axe_6.jpg

 

[jake pogg]

Judging by the drawing in Steve's PDF it'd seem like the collar is separate(the axe itself looking like a Petersen type M),and maybe even made of a non-ferrous alloy(as it's in a fairly decent shape,considering how thin it must be)...

I think that both Craftsman and GB use a specialised press to install those steel inserts...

Here's another uber-cute medieaval woodchopper's axe...

http://moroantik.hu/?p=1574&lang=en

Billed,naturally,as a "war-axe"...And no doubt they're right:After that woodchopper's house was burned(he had to live closer to the woods to be there every day cutting wood and burning charcoal,so it was a little ways off),his family raped and then killed,he had to follow his feudal lord to war against the lord of the neighboring Manor...And,naturally,he wasn't issued any arms,so whatever he had with him as his tools of production went to war...

 

[Kevin Houtzager]

X

 

[jake pogg]

Do we count military axes using a collar as a standart, or do we count "civilian"a.k.a. "axes used for wood" as the counting date? Because all depicted in that topic are military items.

Dude!NOW you're getting it!

I've more proof here,too:https://imgur.com/a/xYcAs

 

[Square_peg]

Dude!NOW you're getting it!

I've more proof here,too:https://imgur.com/a/xYcAs

Nice battle axe there, Jake!

 

[Steve Tall]

The Gransfors Axe Museum (next door to the forge) has some collared axes on display (among the 2000+ axes there):

Two videos showing the hand-forging of some Swedish collared axes in the 1920s, by a single blacksmith in the first video, and a pair of blacksmiths in the second.

Presumably some old-school collared Swedish axes from a Gransfors catalog (1920), along with a link to the study in which they appear:

from
Rosander, G. 'Skogsarbetaren och hans verktyg', Kungliga Skogs- och Lantbruks- akademiens Tidskrift 1988


Some poorly-translated excerpts from this study:

"...For many years in southern Sweden, many different brands have been used, while in Norrland and the Dalarna the predominantly used was the Dala (sometimes called the Urafors) model and the Norrbotten model- as well as the Yankee and Turpentine models... An inventory in 1944 at 56 felling sites mapped out the tool and found that the American models dominated among the axes."

"...A few words also about the shaft of older axes... like a hen egg was the cross section [at the end?]... preferably use the twist-free root bit at the bottom of the trunk. Also good was the thickening along a wound on the trunk... Other woods that have come to use are ash, elm and hickory."

 

[rjdankert]

I recently bought this with the promise of some kind of axe inside:



The listing pictures were blurred, description vague, and the title was something like "VERY EARLY HAND AXE. RARE". So here is my mystery axe:



Total weight 1,283kg
Width of bit 67mm
Length of head (bit to poll) 169mm
Collar/eye length 95mm
No markings found

Any thoughts?


Bob

 

[jake pogg]

Thank you Steve,both videos are superlative fragments of history.
The first,the old Wira factory one,i've seen before,but never tire of watching over.

The second is entirely new to me....It's Most impressive.Most of 19th c. Billnas/Wetterlings/Hults products(like that HB catalog you've so kindly posted just the other day),most of their models are represented in what the smith holds up there toward the end of film.

VERY cool,tons of extremely valuable info in there...

 

[jake pogg]

Any thoughts?

Fantastic,Bob,very sweet axe,congratulations!

Unfortunately can't say anything in particular other than almost certainly Finnish...But you knew that already...Other than that-beautiful tool.

 

[Agent_H]

I recently bought this with the promise of some kind of axe inside:



The listing pictures were blurred, description vague, and the title was something like "VERY EARLY HAND AXE. RARE". So here is my mystery axe:



Total weight 1,283kg
Width of bit 67mm
Length of head (bit to poll) 169mm
Collar/eye length 95mm
No markings found

Any thoughts?


Bob

"Total weight 1,283kg or roughly 2.82lbs / 2lbs 13oz?
Width of bit 67mm
Length of head (bit to poll) 169mm
Collar/eye length 95mm
No markings found"


How much of the weight do you think is in the handle?

BA056A8A-7875-467B-BCE1-8F706123AC4B by Agent Hierarchy, on Flickr
3lbs 5oz


There isn’t a cut-in on the collar so that might help narrow it down.
You could try looking at the eye and determine if is roughly falls into a discernible shape.
Is there a visible seam on the underside of the collar?

It looks a bit like a size between the No.7 and the smaller hatchet sized 61.x/17.x. (or either one for that matter). It looks right useful.

Doesn’t outwardly seem abused and has a lot of visible bit - that is a fine looking kirves. Nice score, Bob.

 

[Steve Tall]

My guess is 61/2 (from the 1928 Billnäs catalog, page 18), with a 65 mm width of blade, and 0.8 kg specified:

Although a 800g head would mean the handle is about 483g (a little heavy?) unless there's some extra weight in the head?

 

[Agent_H]

*edited my previous post “26” Handle”-not sure I was reading closely, got enthused lol.

The 15.2 I have is 2lbs 2oz, 16.2. Is 2lbs. Steve could be right.

Those are wicked little deals if it is and that would be a pretty great example. How long overall is it?

 

[Kevin Houtzager]

X

 

[rjdankert]

 

[rjdankert]

First, thanks for the responses, appreciate all!

almost certainly Finnish...But you knew that already

I was hoping it was Finnish but, I am afraid I don't have enough experience and confidence to know the likelihood. What characteristics should I look for?

or roughly 2.82lbs / 2lbs 13oz?

Yes, my scale has it at 2lb 13.3oz

How much of the weight do you think is in the handle?

Although a 800g head would mean the handle is about 483g (a little heavy?)

How long overall is it?

An add for a Link 18 inch hickory house handle listed the weight at 11.2 oz. / 0,3kg. This handle is 18 1/2 in. / 47cm. A 0,3kg handle would put the head at 1,0kg

Is there a visible seam on the underside of the collar?

None I can detect.

Doesn’t outwardly seem abused and has a lot of visible bit

I don't see any distortions and dents in the poll are minor to me (YMMV). However it has more pitting than I would like. The bit below the weld line is 7/8 in - 1 in (22mm - 25mm). I have done some filing and it is HARD.

What is that wood on the handle?

I don't know. I didn't try to sand it down, but I've cleaned it with solvents and so far not seen much figure.

I would add that I blieve it is homemade and the maker didn't attempt to make it perfectly symmetrical or smooth out the facets (I like it). The fit at the top and bottom of the eye is very good to excellent (IMHO). The handle is not wedged. I haven't used the axe yet to actually tell if it stays tight.


Now for my guess. Assuming it was at least based on a Billnäs / Kellokoski pattern: No 14/2.

Here are pictures and info for the 14 model I lifted from the Finnish Axes Facebook page:

Billnäs 14/2


Weight in the 1928 Billnäs catalog for the 14/1 is 1,2kg and the 14/2 1,1kg.


Kellokoski 14/1



Bob

 

[Agent_H]

I don’t have anything to back up what what makes a Finnish axe stand out above others but the collars having the defined angles on the edges (older ones) kind of strikes me.

The weights of the ones I have messed with seem to me more than stated in the catalogs sometimes.

I haven’t seen a 14.x before but that blade style is tough to type just because some of the only differences (from an outside observer) seem to be the angle that the blade comes off the collar.

14.x sounds good - that kind of puts it in between the 7.x and the 61.x in a sense. Kind of the “boy’s axe” size of the pattern?

It sure is cool for several reasons, one being I haven’t seen one that intact. Being hard is great as well

 

[Agent_H]

Since we all kind of “axe” vicariously through one another here (in one way or another) I personally wouldn’t be opposed to more pictures of it lol.

 

[Steve Tall]

The listed blade width for the 14/2 is 90mm, compared to 65mm for the 61/2, and 67mm for the actual measurement of the axe's bit. That's why my guess is that it's an overweight (and very attractive) 61/2.