Fire cheating

pvicenzi

pvicenzi

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Dec 25, 2008
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What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?
 
some purists will say that if it wasnt down with a bow drill, its cheating... but the end result is fire no??? when i watch these survival shows and the guys arent able to get a fire going and thus have to spend the night in the dark, i really do feel bad for them, id rather have a bic in my pocket and the knowledge and skill to make a fire without having one, than just have the knowledge and skill and still have to spend the night cold and dark and miserable.
 
I don't consider carrying a lighter cheating, for me it's more about redundancy. A lighter is great and easy to use, but what happens when you fall down a hill and crush your lighter and the fluid leaks out or the striking wheel is broken? Even if I somehow break my ferro rod in half, it still functions as it should. If I crack my magnesium firestarter in half, it will still work. Also in cold weather it is often hard to use the striker wheel on a lighter or sparklite.

You can carry a lighter if that is what works for you, but have a backup plan too.
 
starting a fire to stay alive isn't cheating (well maybe cheating death :))

I carry a mini bic lighter, it usually works, if it doesn't- I have a 1/2 dozen REI storm matches (along w/ a few firestraws) in a match safe, if something were to happen to those or they were simply used up, I have a small Sparklite (w/ TinderQuick tabs), if for some reason that failed- I have a small ferro rod that I have a lot of practice w/

when I head into the wild, the idea is to have fun and more importantly make it back to have fun yet another day
 
pvicenzi said:
What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?
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Carrying tender is a shortcut to finding tender when you need it. But just that you recognize it when you see it, and know where to find it in the environment around you is a plus. Even with a Bic lighter you need tender, though not with the same instant flamability (ability to catch and hold a spark) as with various sparking igniters. One could carry a propane torch if size and weight did not matter. But the idea of learning to use several different methods of firestarting is that no matter how extreme the circumstance you find yourself in, you will be able to make fire. Carrying the more primitive means with you gives you the opportunity to practice and hone your skills with the method without having to take the time to make the components each time. Still, there is nothing wrong with carrying also easier technology such as a Bic and manufactured accelerants (alcohol, trioxane, fire paste, etc.). As others mentioned, redundency is a good thing, unless it prevents you from learning to use the more primitive means. I like using a flint and firesteel (circa 1830's), a firebow and other primitive means (need to try a piston!). Fire good!

Codger
 
pvicenzi said:
What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?
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It is a question of what you are trying to accomplish and where you are drawing the line.
Boots with rubber soles vs Boots with only leather soles?
Wool clothes vs cotton or synthetics
Modern rain gear vs only wool

I think it is great to know how to make a fire without modern conveniences. But, you don't have to go that way all the time.
 
There is no such thing as cheating when it comes to wilderness survival. The best way to survive is to plan accordingly.

Bushcraft skills do not take the place of wilderness survival preparation. OK, you broke an knee and a finger in a fall, you won't be leaving the woods tonight, it's starting to drizzle. Define cheating. Mac
 
I understand practicing the skills necessary to build a fire without a lighter, but when I simply want to cook a hotdog while out snowshoeing, I see no problem with using a lighter. (Providing it lights in the cold weather) Some folks seem to look at me like I'm from outer space because I use a lighter.
 
I think that next to having a good shelter, fire is the most important thing to be able to have in the woods. If you make fire, it ain't cheating. Can you make fire with a bow and drill? If yes thats great. Can you do it in the middle of the woods in the late winter / early spring when most everything is wet? I like to keep my options open, and have several different ways to start a fire. Lighters, fire steels, Mag Bars, Matches, use what works for you and always try to learm and master other skills.
 
If you are in some kind of bushcraft competition, it may be cheating. If you are actually in the bush - then anything goes.
 
pvicenzi said:
What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?
Click to expand...

I may well be the last person around, that routinely chooses a bic lighter or a box of matches for my fire starting. :eek:

Yeah, I can start a fire with more primitive means, but then I don't hunt with a stick, or use a horse as my primary mode of transport either.
 
Yeah, it's not a contest. Bring a flamethrower if that's what you need to stay alive and healthy. I bring lighter, white tipped matches, and emergency matches as backup. Find my own tinder along the way or make sure it's available if needed.
 
even the old timers of 200 years ago carried charcloth and tinder in a waterproof tin or pouch and extra flints and strikers.

I carry a lighter, Rat michmetal firekit and small bcb firesteel all packed separately on my person and kit. For tinder about 6 inches of waxed jutte and a tealight, I should try the vaseline/cotton balls sometime.
 
I don't think anything is "cheating". I have heard that many native people up north regularly start their wilderness fires with accelerants and have for quite some time. In the region where i live - this is normal for many "outdoors people" who basically have no skills such as those that we advocate here.

Carry what you want to get the job done. I suggest practicing as many PRACTICAL ways as possible to do that so you have them in your toolbox at all times. Just make sure to carry a bunch of ways - and LEARN SKILLS. Good luck!
 
This board is about wilderness and survival skills. We share a lot of information about various tinder's and fire starting methods, and many of us practice primitive skill just in case we need them in a survival situation (not to mention that it's fun). But keep in mind that, in a survival situation, the object would be to survive, and that could mean getting a fire going in the most efficient manner possible. If a fire drill is all you have, then that could be the most efficient method available. But if you happen to have a working Bic lighter in your pocket you'd be a fool not to use it.

A lot of us practice other methods, true, and actually use those methods to light our fires. But I for one always have a Bic lighter with me and, big admission here, actually use it on occasion.

I would imagine that if early man, indians, or mountain men would have had Bics available, they would have been flicking Bics like crazy. They probably would have thought we were crazy, playing with bow drills and firesteels. They were all about starting fires for survival, not amusement.
 
dawsonbob said:
I would imagine that if early man, indians, or mountain men would have had Bics available, they would have been flicking Bics like crazy.
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Absolutely! Practicing skills is great, especially if you have the luxury of not needing to survive, but if I need fire NOW, anything goes.
 
Raining said:
Absolutely! Practicing skills is great, especially if you have the luxury of not needing to survive, but if I need fire NOW, anything goes.
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Exactly! We practice our skills so that we have them available should we need them but, as you pointed out, if you need fire NOW, anything goes.

That's the bottom line, I think.
 
There is no such thing as cheating in a survival situation.

I always carry at least three firestarting methods with me in the hills. As well as being proficient in several primitive methods as well.

Most of my fires get startedwith a match. Occassionaly with a lighter. Often I start fires just for fun with a firesteel or by bowdrill.

To me it is all about options. While I have started fires without serious problems with a firesteel under horrible conditions, the same with the bowdrill. I like having other options available. This redundancy has enabled me to spend exceptionaly few cold nights in the wilderness without a fire if I wanted one.
 
If survival was a game, there may be some rules, however it is not. When you go out into what could become a wilderness survival situation, you take what works best for you. In real survival, there is no cheating and second place can really suck.
 
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