Fire cheating

[Bushman5]

Bush, if they put their extremist ideas ahead of survival, isn't that kind of
like weeding out the gene pool?????

hey you might be right.......by them not surviving, they are decreasing their carbon output........LMAO!

 

[Mannlicher]

A prudent outdoors man has more then one way to kindle a fire with him. Knowing how to use 'primitive' methods does not make you a 'better' person, but it may insure that you stay alive in a time of need.

That being said, in some 55 years of camping and hiking, hunting and exploring, I have NEVER been in a position where the ability to start a fire with anythiing other than a match or BIC was an issue.

 

[dawsonbob]

A prudent outdoors man has more then one way to kindle a fire with him. Knowing how to use 'primitive' methods does not make you a 'better' person, but it may insure that you stay alive in a time of need.

That being said, in some 55 years of camping and hiking, hunting and exploring, I have NEVER been in a position where the ability to start a fire with anythiing other than a match or BIC was an issue.

Neither have I... yet. And I hope I never will, but it doesn't hurt me to practice, just in case.

 

[Calebklyne]

just as a note for those of you who plan on using butane or almost any sort of torch lighter every single one i have owned or used wont produce flame above certain altitudes, that is why i now carry a firesteel and a mini bic

 

[Ramm9]

just as a note for those of you who plan on using butane or almost any sort of torch lighter every single one i have owned or used wont produce flame above certain altitudes, that is why i now carry a firesteel and a mini bic

That's right, at least I found that two of my torch lighters were dead at 4,500 feet.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

just as a note for those of you who plan on using butane or almost any sort of torch lighter every single one i have owned or used wont produce flame above certain altitudes, that is why i now carry a firesteel and a mini bic

I have read about this before and I have experienced it myself - although in my case the altitude was marginal and 2 of my butane lighters didn't work and 2 others did. Since then I carry both butane and lighter fluid fueled lighters - if one doesn't work then hopefully the other will. I have also ordered a firesteel as a further backup.

 

[dawsonbob]

I have never had a Bic fail at 6,000 ft. (the highest elevation of our local mountains). Been using them up there for years: no problems (yet).

 

[Walkabout]

I am in complete agreement with carrying various methods of starting a fire. Even when carrying redundant fire starting methods, some people only practice or have experience with the easiest method, and their first try at starting a fire with a fire steel is when they've dumped their canoe and soaked their matches.

One reason I only light fires in the bush with a fire steel and tinder that I've found on that outing is to become comfortable and confident with that approach. I feel that the skills and discipline needed to be set up and light a fire with a fire steel (or a bow/drill, which I am terrible with) provide a consistent and reliable approach that will help when using a lighter, or a road flare with a cup of gasoline, for that matter.

If I were truly lost and in trouble, you can bet I'd pick the most energy efficient and reliable means of igniting a fire that I had with me, which would always be a choice between a freshly filled zippo, a peizo-electric lighter, NATO matches, and a fire steel (I carry them all ). I'd probably pick the lighter.

Hopefully, the fact that for the last decade I've practised with a fire steel and various found tinders, have learned to build a good base and gather good kindling, will stand me in good stead!

 

[tonym]

I am in complete agreement with carrying various methods of starting a fire. Even when carrying redundant fire starting methods, some people only practice or have experience with the easiest method, and their first try at starting a fire with a fire steel is when they've dumped their canoe and soaked their matches.

One reason I only light fires in the bush with a fire steel and tinder that I've found on that outing is to become comfortable and confident with that approach. I feel that the skills and discipline needed to be set up and light a fire with a fire steel (or a bow/drill, which I am terrible with) provide a consistent and reliable approach that will help when using a lighter, or a road flare with a cup of gasoline, for that matter.

If I were truly lost and in trouble, you can bet I'd pick the most energy efficient and reliable means of igniting a fire that I had with me, which would always be a choice between a freshly filled zippo, a peizo-electric lighter, NATO matches, and a fire steel (I carry them all ). I'd probably pick the lighter.

Hopefully, the fact that for the last decade I've practised with a fire steel and various found tinders, have learned to build a good base and gather good kindling, will hopefully stand me in good stead!

Couldn't agree more:thumbup:

 

[dawsonbob]

I’ve been practicing various methods of fire starting for many, many, man... a whole lot of years. Over the years I practiced and learned to successfully light fires with (in no particular order):

Bow drill, Fire plow, Flint and steel, Banging two rocks together, Potassium permanganate and glycerine, Matches, Lighters (Bic and Zippo), Magnesium block and steel, Firesteel, Fire piston, and probably others that I can’t remember off hand.

With all those methods, I have a lot of options. But when it comes right down to it, in a survival situation, I’ll use the Bic lighter every time.

 

[udtjim]

I have been using strike anywhere matches for more than 60 years so that is my first thought, next the Zippo Last would be the firebow because in ND you would freeze to death just getting ready to start. A firesteel works pretty well for me but still requires more time and prep. If I need a fire, I probably need it NOW. If I am just going to cook, then speed is not as critical.

There are many dependable ways to keep your matches dry and ready.

 

[Walkabout]

...

There are many dependable ways to keep your matches dry and ready.

Agreed with all of your points . I'm in Manitoba, and can relate to the impact of cold on the urgency of a fire. One thing that I would also suggest as well (to others... as a general suggestion) is to make sure that you can get your matches out of their waterproof container when your hands are cold and clumsy. I foolishly put some waterproof tape around my survival kit to seal it, and it was so sticky that I couldn't get it off with cold hands (just a test run).

On our snowshoe day-trips with our kids (now adults... but thankfully still come along on occasion), at about half way we stop to brew some pine needle tea on a fire that we build with birch bark tinder, pine resin, fine dry twigs from the base of spruce trees, etc. This way the kids have all learned how to build a fire using reliable techniques and material around them. They're all pretty good with a fire steel, but certainly could light a fire with a match or lighter and they know the importance of the components building of a fire.

My brother's idea of a campfire is to get a chainsaw and throw a bunch of sticks/logs in a pile, put some gasoline on, and stand back while throwing a match (I'm amazed he still has eyebrows ). This works pretty much every time, but I hope for his sake he's not lost on a day hike some time.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Tradidtional firestarting methods are fun to practice, but I, for one am not that good at them, so I won't depend on them.

If it comes down to needing a fire to stay alive, I'm planning to cheat like hell. Whether that means using a lighter, flare, flask of napalm or a phosphorous grenade. . .

 

[Mannlicher]

just as a note for those of you who plan on using butane or almost any sort of torch lighter every single one i have owned or used wont produce flame above certain altitudes, that is why i now carry a firesteel and a mini bic

In Florida this is not an issue.

 

[Don Rearic]

What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?

I'm interested in survival. I happen to like the gear but this is not a hobby to me as it is to some people in the way you describe, anyway. Obviously I enjoy the stuff but it is not something where one can "cheat" or "play fair."

If you use that logic, anything other than bear and deer skin for clothing would be "cheating." Basically, this is a caveman argument.

 

[August West]

I really didn't realize that there are rules for fire lighting, is there a governing body that decides or a book or something.

Seriously, is the thread really about how you should and should not light your fires?

 

[d_filgate]

I really didn't realize that there are rules for fire lighting, is there a governing body that decides or a book or something.
Seriously, is the thread really about how you should and should not light your fires?

I've asked myself lots of questions about what you should know with regards to starting fires.
I think that the OP's intention was asking the question with the intent of practicing primitive bushcraft methods in mind.

This is far different from a survival situation though. And a lot of the people who have responded have made that differentiation.
It's great to practice the skills that our forefathers needed, but I'm willing to bet that if they had a Bic available, they would have used it!

Learning primitive skills can be quite valuable though.
Given the security rules that have pervaded our world since 9/11, especially for air travel, I'm not even sure anymore if you can carry lighters etc...with you in your carry on.
What if you can't, and you are on a plane heading home for the holidays and it goes down...over the northern U.S. or Canada..."and" by some stroke of luck, or divine intervention, you survive? Wintertime in those parts can be extremely cold.
Starting a fire would be of primary importance in cold winter weather right?
Knowing alternate ways of fire starting would be the difference between living and dieing.

Living in Canada, I have to plan for more mundane things like going off the highway due to poor road conditions, and having to survive the night until help arrives.
You can bet that I'm going to have a lot of different ways of keeping warm at my disposal.

My wife bugs me about all the fire starting "stuff" that I have in my kit.
I have everything from fatwood and pj balls to road flares (got that from some SAR guys).
Between firestarters and knives, she thinks I'm nuts....

 

[pvicenzi]

I think I asked the question because of the survival shows. In one of the shows, the guy hauled in a pack with all kinds of equipment, including guns, but he was using primitive methods for firestarting. Didn't make much sense to me.

 

[PatriotDan]

I have used a bic lighter and regular non-waterproof matches for 15 years at work as my method of making fire in the bush. Only times I've used a firesteel has been in the SERE course for demonstration purposes. I used to spend a considerable amount of work time in the outdoors but that has now reduced greatly.

I've never felt the need for anything else than the lighter&matches combo since it has not failed me, not when wet not when up a mountain. It's only the firemaking skills exposure in this forum that I've taken the interest in different methods. More fun than survival really.

 

[Don Rearic]

I believe that the ability to make a fire under a wide range of conditions is probably the single most important survival skill you can possess. It is also the most dangerous, perhaps, I have watched a lot of people doing incredibly stupid things. I watched a guy in October 2008 at a campground repeatedly douse a campfire (which was improperly built and covered in green, wet wood) with charcoal lighter fluid. Then he let his kids roast their marshmallows over that chemical burn. Disgusting...moronic.

Fire can keep you warm, it can purify your water, it can cook wild edibles you collect that might be edible, but not as palatable as they might otherwise be, along with fish and game or even insects. If it keeps wild animals at bay, well, the jury is still out on that one but there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest it does that it might be a good idea to have one.

A lot of the survival "experts" will go to great lengths to inform anyone who will listen that most of survival is psychological, that's true. Then they will shoot down the psychological boost of snaring game, fishing, hunting, or having a fire to lift your spirits - they cannot have it both ways but some desire that duality.

Fire is incredibly important. There is no "cheating," there is only survival.