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Fire cheating

udtjim said:
If survival was a game, there may be some rules, however it is not. When you go out into what could become a wilderness survival situation, you take what works best for you. In real survival, there is no cheating and second place can really suck.
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:thumbup::thumbup: In a survival situation, there are no second place winners.
 
What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter?
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I have found that butane & torch lighters don't always work when you are above the timberline where the air is thinner. Having alternative means for fire means being able to still have a hot meal in very cold places.
 
I wouldn't go into the bush with nothing but a Bic lighter to get a fire started. What I carry is at least 3 lighters - my favourite is small, strong & waterproof: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3734
I bought five of those little suckers at $1.65 each and I have filled & tested all of them. If I put one of those in my pocket & one in my pack and a butane lighter as well - then I am pretty well prepared. Add a waterproof container with some cotton balls smeared in Vaseline and a good knife - then it shouldn't be too hard to get a fire going. Without the cotton balls & Vaseline it shouldn't be that much harder - the knife can be used to scrape bark or wood to make an easily ignited powder and making fuzz sticks isn't that hard to do.
 
pict said:
There is no such thing as cheating when it comes to wilderness survival. The best way to survive is to plan accordingly.

Bushcraft skills do not take the place of wilderness survival preparation. OK, you broke an knee and a finger in a fall, you won't be leaving the woods tonight, it's starting to drizzle. Define cheating. Mac
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BINGO! Bushcraft is NOT Wilderness Survival!

Wilderness Survival Preparation and implementation IMMEDIATELY overrides "bushcraft" "campcraft" skills in case of a wilderness survival situation.

There has been a growing fad of relying ONLY on "bushcraft" skills for survival situ's recently , rather than going prepared for wilderness survival. One should realize that "bushcraft skills" COMPLEMENT wilderness survival preparations, and DO NOT replace that wilderness survival prep. Far too many people (and i'm sure i'll piss off half the board here with this) have the perception that if in a survival situation, that they will simply whittle a fire bow and board, make cordage from roots and bark, build debris shelters etc etc. NO! in a wilderness survival situation you need shelter NOW!, you need fire NOW!, you need water NOW!

NOW! is not the time to be fussing about with campcraft or bushcraft skills. Save those for when your immediate survival situation is taken care of.....then work on making that survival situation more comfortable, with your bushcraft skills.

in closing, NO it is NOT cheating to going prepared for a wilderness survival situ with manmade items for starting a fire, or a torch etc etc etc etc etc.

Bushy, saying it like it is and not afraid of a war
 
Heck, If I could take a thermite grenade as a backup, I'd take one. As Brother Bushy said, it's not cheating to be prepared.

Once you really are prepared, you can play to your heart's content (I do).
 
I'm with DB and UDTJim..if your a** is on the line (presto the climbers lost on Mt Hood) then 2nd place is a body bag. I like primitive skills, learning and understanding how our ansestors managed to get us here is fun and challenging. But living over a pleasure trip gone wrong is the name of the game. thermite in a starter stick..yea that sounds like a winner item to me. best regards anrkst
 
I think Jim's sig line pretty much sums it up: "If you find yourself in a fair fight [for survival], your tactics suck."

DancesWithKnives
 
udtjim said:
If survival was a game, there may be some rules, however it is not. When you go out into what could become a wilderness survival situation, you take what works best for you. In real survival, there is no cheating and second place can really suck.
Click to expand...


I completely agree with Jim - and as the Trident tells me - Navy SEALS, and smart fighters, fight as dirty as they can. Second place in survival and ombat, is dead. I know I fought dirty when I was in the Marines - the guy who is alive at the end, can tell it ANY way he wants to.



TF
 
Thing is, once in a while you get the opposite of the OP. As in, somebody demonstrates their skill at firebow and it is followed by a reply by some smartass saying 'why bother, just use a bic'. The why bother statement is antithesis to W&SS. That last S represents skills and that is what we discuss here. If you use technology and gidgets to help you that is fine. If you rely on one piece of technology to save the day then you are underprepared.

Bushman5, I don't think there is a member here who really thinks that they willl just build a quinzee hut in 2" of wet snow or make a debris hot from soaking wet grass. Still, if you never try these things out you will never learn what works and what doesn't. Also, the act of trying these things out means you are thinking about possibilities and learning to adapt circumstances to your needs.

However, in the end, perhaps the greatest mistake is to take yourself or others for that matter too seriously. Most of us just do these things for the fun and enjoyment of it. We have at the back of our head that this might come in use some day but it isn't really the motivation for our acts and choices at leisure time. Some people spend long hours of the day learning how to juggle 4 objects. I'd rather learn how to do hand drill. I'd get just as many ooh's and ahhs with the handrill.
 
udtjim said:
If survival was a game, there may be some rules, however it is not. When you go out into what could become a wilderness survival situation, you take what works best for you. In real survival, there is no cheating and second place can really suck.
Click to expand...

Well said.

kgd said:
That last S represents skills and that is what we discuss here. If you use technology and gidgets to help you that is fine. If you rely on one piece of technology to save the day then you are underprepared.

However, in the end, perhaps the greatest mistake is to take yourself or others for that matter too seriously. Most of us just do these things for the fun and enjoyment of it. We have at the back of our head that this might come in use some day but it isn't really the motivation for our acts and choices at leisure time. Some people spend long hours of the day learning how to juggle 4 objects. I'd rather learn how to do hand drill. I'd get just as many ooh's and ahhs with the handrill.
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No wonder they let him teach college.

Marion
 
Just curious, I have always wondered about those pencil size "mini-torches". Gas filled, compact, lightweight. I think tyhey are refillable.

Do they work? Anyone use them? Guessing they would not do well in sub-freezing temps but would be nice in wet conditions. If they are reliable.
 
^ they work better than lighters and have a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY hotter flame. Lee Valley tools carries a small heavy duty one.
 
There's a reason why we no longer live in caves.

All is fair in love and war (and lighting fires).
 
Cheating?

It's about preparation for emergency wilderness survival – not about winning a game of Yahtzee.
 
I believe one should practice all methods of staying alive in survival situation, and most of us enjoy practicing woods and water survival. It can only make things easier when of if the real thing confronts you. However I would be sure first that I had a way to make a fire under just about any condition that came up.

I would hate to see a young person heard out into the woods ill equipped because he thinks his methods might not live up to the guys expectation.
 
pvicenzi said:
What's the difference between carying tinder and magnesium firestarters into the woods, and carying say a propane torch, or a lighter? Isn't it cheating to carry anything at all?
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It's all in context. I think true "pure-isms" only exists within ones own comfort zones. Find a person known for their puritan beliefs in a situation where they are in sub zero temps and verging on hypothermia and frost bite and in need of fire. Offer them some sticks, string, and straw in one hand and a Bic lighter and some sterno in the other. I think it's safe to say that most people with any intelligence...and still in control of their faculties... would take the lighter and sterno. If it saves lives, limbs, and digits then it's not cheating.


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