fire starting

benh said:
All three work well, but it sure seems like using the blade spines chews up the spine of the blade. Do people really use knife spines on ferro rods routinely, or is it one of those "Good to know you can if you have to" sorts of deals? If you do it routinely, do you have a photo of the spine of the blade you use?
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At first my knife spine chewed up the firesteel pretty good. But then I figured out that the cotton balls ignite so easily that I didn't need to put that much pressure into striking the sparks. At that point, the wear on the rod seemed to reduce considerably.

Frankly, my need to start a fire with a firesteel is so infrequent, and the firesteels themselves are so inexpensive, that I'm not too concerned about the wear on the rod. That said, if I was doing this a lot I'd probably pack something like the istor sharpener as a striker (see Echo63's post earlier in this thread) on the theory that it wouldn't do as much damage to the rod.
 
Another handy tinder is cotton balls with wax. Toi make them I just light a candle, then let the wax drip onto the coitton ball. Obviously these are larger and less compressable than PJ cotton balls, but they also burn hotter and longer, really throwing out flame. But for small kits I use PJ balls, and just smash them down into a plastic sandwich bag. They compress readily but are just as easily "fluffed up". Another good tinder for smal kits is the commercial Tinder-Quik tabs. They're woven cotton impregnated with some flamable material and can be compressed quite small.

My choice of strikers is the back of an SAK saw, and the awl on the Pioneer series of SAK's also work snicely (unlike most SAK's, the Pioneer series has the awl com,ing out the "front" of the knife's handle). Also, what you think is dings on the spine of your knife are, in fact, flaked off pieces of ferrocerium from the rod itself. Use a flat edged imlement of some type (even the edge of snother knife) and they'll fall right off. However, DON'T use the edge of your knife except in the direst of circumstances as the much thinner, more brittle edge *will* be damaged quite a bit by the ferro rod, levaing behind a nasty micro-serrated edge section.
 
I'm not at all concerned about chewing up the firesteel. I'm concerned about chewing up the spine of my blade.

I sparked a magfire using the spine of a VG10 Delica and of an S30V Griptilian, and both spines, after use, had definite rough patches where I'd been using them. They were both visible and able to be felt. They weren't massive gouges or anything, but it sure seemed like extended use like that would be bad for the spine.

Perhaps it's my technique. I've been sparking using one of the 90 degree angles on the spine, not flat on the spine.

V Shrake: I checked out what you said and after a quick rub with another bit of metal, the spines were much smoother, but it still seemed like there was some damage.
 
Bulgron, thanks for posting the results of your testing. Much appreciated. :thumbup:

While lots of people advocate vaseline as an accelerant to use on cottonball tinder, I recommend beeswax instead. Or use paraffin if you don't have beeswax. Being a solid at atmoshperic/body temperatures, the waxes aren't as messy as the vaseline to handle or use. That leaves your fingers & kit tidier. Tests showed that beeswax will burn longer than vaseline. The best prices I've seen for beeswax are from the Stakich Inc website -- as cheap as $4 per pound in large bulk quantities.

Check out this thread from Cliff Stamp for more info on firestarters.

See also the great Playing With Fire thread by Evolute over on the Swamp Rat survival forum

-- Drugstore Alert!! --
Instead of cottonballs, which you compact to achieve density in a container after soaking them in accelerant, check out cosmetic cleaning pads. They are used to remove makeup from ladies' faces. They are made of quite dense and compacted cotton. (Be sure to get the 100% cotton ones. Some are made of synthetic fibers, which won't ignite with a spark.) I think some manufacturers lable them as "buffs".

I got a package of 100 at the discount store for under a dollar. They are 2+ inches in diameter and about as thick as a silver dollar. They are quite dense compared to cotton balls. They are quilted (stamped pattern) on both faces. When I shred one apart with my fingers, it makes a ball about as big as a normal cottonball. However, the fibers seem to be chopped shorter than the ones found in regular cottonballs.
 
RokJok said:
While lots of people advocate vaseline as an accelerant to use on cottonball tinder, I recommend beeswax instead.

...

See also the great Playing With Fire thread by Evolute over on the Swamp Rat survival forum
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Thanks for the reply.

I was just reading through the thread above. They give a pretty strong warning about beeswax in that it has a strong honey smell. Probably not the best thing to carry in bear country. You also have to take steps to keep small rodents out of it. For this reason, I won't be experimenting with beeswax. :)

Does parrafin have the same problems?
 
bulgron said:
Thanks for the reply.

I was just reading through the thread above. They give a pretty strong warning about beeswax in that it has a strong honey smell. Probably not the best thing to carry in bear country. You also have to take steps to keep small rodents out of it. For this reason, I won't be experimenting with beeswax. :)

Does parrafin have the same problems?
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In colonial times, beeswax candles had to be stored in a tin "safe."

I have had no problems with rodents chewing on fire-starters made of unscented paraffin, but once had a bear investigate some made of old bayberry-scented candles.
 
I find that the fire steel is best for applications where I just need to toss some sparks on something easy to light, like a PJ cottonball, or to light a stove. For the tough to light tinder, I find the blastmatch to be best. It requires a firm surface so you can get some leverage. I can light things with the blastmatch that just laugh at the fire steel.

BenH - I have used the spine of my S30V Native extensively as a firesteel striker, and there is no sign of anything on the blade. I do have to clean the residue off the blade and handle afterward, but I have seen no permanent damage.
 
631077Prd.jpg


I am a big fan of the Coghlan’s Emergency Tinder, $3 for 10. It works like the PJ cotton balls but is not messy. I keep several in a small ziploc bag for my PSK. I also keep 2 in a small Altoids breath strips tin in my pocket with a Strike Force ferro rod and a mini Bic lighter.
 
bulgron said:
If anyone reading this has tips or suggestions on firestarters or emergency kindling, I'd really like to hear them.
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I would suggest trying to start fires in a combination of ; darkness, extreme cold, rain, and high wind in addition of personal effects such as less than ideal clothing, high stress and injury. That will give you a new perspective on cotton balls and similar tinder and contrast camping vs survival.

-Cliff
 
How about, as a working strategy:

Learn to do it the "hard way" and do your best to be sure you never need that level of ability.


??????
 
I recently posted in here on fire starting methods, and people were talking about pj cotton balls. I had never heard of such, so I tried it out, and compared it to cotton balls without pj. I even tried out getting the cotton balls wet, and lighting them on the grill with the spark portion of a mag stick. I have to admit I was impressed with the ease of lighting them, and especially how long they would burn. Even more so impressed when the wind picked up, and made them burn hotter, but didn't blow them out.

I like trying different ways to start fires, and I have tried a few out. I really like the all natural ways the best, such as bow drills, hand drills, ect, but it never hurts to try other ways. You never know what you might have to do in a given situation. I have tried the bottom of a coke can, a nine volt battery,and steel wool, with success, but I am always open to a new way.

Nice post...
 
Thomas Linton said:
Learn to do it the "hard way" and do your best to be sure you never need that level of ability.
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The Miyagi defence is generally the best one when available.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The Miyagi defence is generally the best one when available.

-Cliff
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It is trivial to determine that you do not refer to Anichi Miyagi or Ryoto Miyagi. That leaves "Mr. Miyagi," and Jeff and Bill agree that his defense is FAR to thick - easily .025 +/- .007 at the right-hand edge at 15-35C. Or was it Stanley? :D



Ok, Ok. I give. What is the "Miyagi defense"?
 
Karata Kid, the best way to win a fight is to "no be there". Sometimes of course that isn't an option, but the vast majority of survivial situations are where people could have prepared but didn't because they never assumed the worst could happen, this is a common perspective in threads on these forums, people will say things like "I have been camping/hiking for 20 years and never needs to know how to X." Where X is usually something extreme like light a fire after heavy rain involving splitting wood or similar. That is true, it only needs to happen once though for it to matter. It isn't of course in general a likely statistical fatality, how many people die of "survival" issues outside compared to smoking, heart attacks or violent crime. If you were actually interested in survival as a whole meaning you live longer, woodcraft is really way down on the list for most people and is more of a hobby than actual useful skill.

-Cliff
 
Ah so. The second most common observation of persons found by my SAR organization (all those years ago) was to the effect that they didn't think they would get lost. Well gee. (Most common observation was happiness at being found.)

Fire issues in my area almost always come down to wet wood. The back-country areas are otherwise full of burnables. Only the areas near the parking lots are sparcely supplied. Little problem with open areas/wind. So if you are prepared to get inside limbs, you should be OK. But in the last while we came on another group with no ability (tools/knowledge) -- to accomplish that end -- and only paper matches long used up. So they were cold and wet and very happy to see us. (They were surrounded by red oak and beech leaves still on the trees on this early Spring day.)
 
Another tinder to consider is 0000 steel wool. Fluff it a little and it catches nicely. Plus, you have it if you need to do some light abrasive work. If you have a flashlight with you (C or D cell is best, I haven't tried it with AA) pull the steel wool out into a fluffy rope then press the ends to the +&- terminals of the batteries. Either hold or improvise a way to hold two batteries together and connect the SW to the ends. It heats up quick turning into a nice red mass you can toss into other tinder and small kindling and blow into a nice little fire.

One thing one of the Air Force Survival intructors demonstrated at a Fish & Game day was to use the PJ impregnated gauze that comes in the foil pack. These are, or at least were, common in Army first aid kits. Cut a small X in the middle, pull the foil back just a little, and light it, this way it will wick from the unexposed areas and last longer. You can also open up the package more if you need more flame. Much neater than PJ everywhere and if you keep a few around you also have then for their intended first aid purposes.

I must admit that I have a love for firesteels. I don't have a bunch laying around, only the one I've carried on my key chain for years and the one I bought the other day. But I do love em, cause they just work so well.
 
I hold the blastmatch horizontally above my tinder in one hand, and my knife (still in it's sheath) in my other hand, and push against the knife. That way I don't disturb the tinder, and the sparks fall into it.
 
My wife makes fire-starters out of mini cupcake papers filled with paraffin wax and saw dust.

We carry several stored in a water proof Pelican Box at the bottom of my pack. These never fail to light and are very cheap to make as well.
 
I "discovered" another thing about lighting fire with firesteel ( had a scout model from DLT Trading) yesterday that most of you probably already know but was a lightbulb moment for me.

Was doing yard work and I always grab anything that looks like it may be natural tinder and see if it will ignite (helps me to take my mind off of the yard work which I don't care for)..I crumbled up some dried out stringy leaves from a weed looking plant into a nice birds nest and hit with some sparks..after 3 or 4 shots it caught and started to burn nicely from a quarter size flame..

Being march in Florida the mosquitos are already strating up with a vengence, especially, near my pond so I was wearing 5% deet from a spray bottle..I put out the tinder a sprayed 1 spray onto the tinder and hit again with a spark shower..Holy cow, it burst into flames like the towering inferno!

I then cut a 1 inch piece of the top of my cotton sock and folded it..I sprayed again with the Skintastic stuff and hit it..Bang it lit with one stroke of the rod and burned nice (didn't time it but burns quick and would be fine for moderate conditions)..

I usually carry those deet patches (individual wrapped) in my psk but haven't tried them yet..Just thought I would mention this because with west nile season upon us most of us will have bug spray for them nasty "skeeters" and it serves a nice multi-use item that you will most likely being carrying anyway..I have not tried other stuff but would probably help ignite pieces of shirt, gauze from 1st aid kit, etc..The solvent in Cutters brand must not be as flamable because that did not work..give it a try and see what it will ignite..watch your eyebrows..
 
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