First Rifle Question

Unless you can afford a great safe, the purpose of a safe is to keep the amatuers out. The druggie looking to grab some stuff and run. Or the kid who gets curious.

But even a very good safe can be defeated. A hand held torch makes a hole or soft spot, and then you simply rip the hole into a large tear.


munk
 
God help the stupid SOB who holds a torch on my safe. There is enough powder and ammo in there to launch it into orbit. Not to mention the fire lining will expand under heat and make burning through it a whole lot harder. In my experience, most thieves won't take a chance on burning up the contents or blowing themselves up by using a torch, at least for long, but I have seen some guys try and cut through a corner of the door enough to get a purchase and then try and peel the door back. Mine is by no means top of the line, but with 3/8" steel and 16 locking bolts in the door it's going to take them a while, and that's the point! :)

Norm
 
Ok, I'm also considering buying my first rifle.

Honestly, I'm considering the SKS really strongly. It's still my top choice. I like it because it I like the larger, (imo) more utilitarian round, and it is very rugged. From the other thread here, I've gathered that you all have great confidence in it as SD and all-purpose. I would use it primarily for targets, what goes bump in the night, and whatever else would warrant a rifle (we have small dogs and have seen bobcats in our yard before). Assuming that I understand the value of each shot and will not use it as the proverbial bullet hose, would this be a good first rifle? I have a good ammount of shotgun experience, ranging from 4-10 to 12 ga.

What do you guys think?

Nam
 
Nam- the sks was my first rifle.


Savashtar- for a while, everyone put a sticker on their safe saying; "Warning, contains black powder" I figured by now most thieves no longer believed that.

Are the sides of your safe 3/8" thick, or 1/4" or 10 gauge? The thing to do is use a hardened punch, make a hole, and then take a power tool or crowbar and expand it.

I talked with various folks about this. Everyone told me you could get into a safe.

Also- unless you keep Black powder in there, there may not be an explosion. Smokeless powder just burns. I'm not sure of all the physics involved. If your safe is air tight, maybe there could be an explosion.

munk
 
namaarie,

As a young teen ager, my first gun was a single shot bolt action .22. My 2nd purchase was a 12 ga. shotgun.

When I got out of service my first "weapon" was a 12 ga shotgun.

:cool:

SKS is a fun shooter. If you want fun, get it. If you want food and protection, get a 12 ga. :D
 
Hey Dave... this is what I would do

Like Spectre and munk and bunches of others, I'd say go find a single shot .22. In fact, I'd say go find a an old USED one (yeah I know, other people's junk etc.) and don't put any optics on it for two years.

Then buy a couple of bricks...@1,000 rounds. Take a couple of hundred rounds with you and fill a light back pack with snacks and water, 50 or so index cards, couple of tin cans and maybe some larger coffee cans, couple of ping-pong balls, couple of golf balls, a couple of dozen balloons, and some paint-gun pellets, and and maybe a butt cushion to sit on.

Go out to a place where: 1. it is legal to shoot,2. there are no other folks around, 3. there is a hill side or quarry to shoot into and no possibility of a round careening into the distance, and where you can clean up any mess you make (like shot-up cards or cans, etc.)

(Be nice if you had a friend who has shot with you to pass the time. Also, with a friend there, he or she can load the rifle and give it to you to shoot. At odd times, the loader can load an empty case in the rifle to help you learn about twitches or flinches.)

You start by learning about slow breathing...squeeze on the exhale and pull so gradually that you don't really know when the round will go off; then work on the sight picture...seeing where the front sight is on the target and learning to focus on the front sight after you have alligned it to the target. You do this for every shot.

Then, just spend time...lazy, ain't -gotta -prove -nothin' time--first with the index cards, then over to the tin cans, then back to the index cards.

I start folks out at a 10 yard target (closer, sometimes) because I want them to hit. This is not proving failure, but reinforcing successes. Move the targets further after repeated successes, but don't go much beyond a 25 yard range at first.

Then blow up a few balloons, and let them sit in the range area. If you have a breeze, neat. If not, fine.

But the balloons are your reward for achievement. Set some reasonable goal, like 5 hits out of 10 on a card, then....you get to shoot a balloon.

When you have done your learning shooting for the day...say 100-200 rounds...bring out the ping pong balls, the golf balls and the paint-gun pellets.

You are now officially screwing around. :D

You will learn the gun, you will learn to shoot, and you will find a satisfaction in a learned skill that may stay with you a very long time.

When you have gone through those first bricks, you will be a shooter. The next steps are up to you. That old single shot is the cornerstone of any guns you may get and frankly, it just loves to be shot.


Be well and safe.


BTW, Spectre and Satori, Munk and Rusty, 45-70 and Raghorn...and bunches of others know a LOT more than I do. But my way works too.

Be well and safe.

(On old guns: I just looked up the serial # on my first gun, a Winchester 97 for which I paid $40 in er...the 60's...it was made in 1915 if I read the table correctly. Serial # 6044XX. It would be one of two to save from a fire, should I have to. Old guns are wonderful.)
 
Yeah, those bricks of 22.s are great. Just got back from outside shooting. Shot the 10/22 off hand and did ok.

Now that I finally got my SKS working again I shot it at 50 yards off the truck hood with a sandbag(well, actually my tent that got wrecked over at Nasty's place ;) ) and Ms Hollowdweller and I were cutting a lot of them together from that rest. I forgot how well it shot!

Then we moved onto the CZ 52. Ms Hollowdweller outshot me with that one!

Kind of reminded me of that song "Chocktaw Bingo" by James Mc Murtry:

"... and he stopped off in tuska at the pop knife and gun place
bought a sks rifle and a couple full cases of that steel core ammo
with the beardan primers from some east bloc nation
that no longer needs em
and a desert eagle thats one great big old pistol
i mean fifty caliber made by bad-ass hebrews
and some surplus tracers for that old BAR
of slatons as soon as it gets dark
were gonna have us a time
were gonna have us a time " ;)
 
munk said:
Nam- the sks was my first rifle.


Savashtar- for a while, everyone put a sticker on their safe saying; "Warning, contains black powder" I figured by now most thieves no longer believed that.

Are the sides of your safe 3/8" thick, or 1/4" or 10 gauge? The thing to do is use a hardened punch, make a hole, and then take a power tool or crowbar and expand it.

I talked with various folks about this. Everyone told me you could get into a safe.

Also- unless you keep Black powder in there, there may not be an explosion. Smokeless powder just burns. I'm not sure of all the physics involved. If your safe is air tight, maybe there could be an explosion.

munk
Click to expand...


The sides are 10 gauge. Total weight is about 900 lbs. But as I have it bolted to a concrete floor and set back into a recess the only access is thru the front. There is no doubt that you can break into this safe, especially as it is surrounded by a garage full of tools. The idea is layers of protection. Get over the 7' tall external locked gate, then defeat the house alarm, gain access to the locked garage through the reinforced (lock, bolt, frame and striker), dead-bolted solid core door, _then_ open the safe. It all is going to take some time. The idea was to improve over the old oak wood gun cabinet I had (with a glass door no less), as far as security is concerned. The gun cabinet was very pretty but offered zero security.

Also the safe contains personal papers and records and provides 1200 degrees fire protection for a couple of hours anyway. It has a Sargent & Greenleaf combination lock and 2 built in relockers which kick in if the lock is defeated.

Hasn't been needed as yet, thank God, but I feel a lot better knowing things are at least out of sight and not on display.

Norm
 
Yours is a better model than mine. I couldn't afford fire protection. I've been tempted to line it with the correct type of plaster board and give it some protection.





munk
 
I would recomend a bolt, my second choice would be a lever.

If you opt for the semiauto, spend the money on a Thompson/Center Classic.

www.rimfirecentral.com is a great place to get opinions and info about .22s. Its a very active place with many manufacturers forums and a friendly atmosphere. Spend a few hours there before deciding.

www.gunbroker.com is a good auction site to buy new and used guns. You can find anything there, and there are quite a few really good deals.
 
I happen to like the Ruger brand - I have many Rugers.
One option would be a Marlin 22 lever action -- Ruger may have a lever action as well in 22.
 
others know a LOT more than I do
Click to expand...
I dunno, Kismet...it would be hard to find a better way to learn than you're describing.

I don't think the rifle has to be a single-shot- but I do think manual operation helps focus on good marksmanship. Another good thing about using a bolt-action, is that most folks hunt larger game with bolt action rifles, as well. Build that muscle memory.

John
 
My first rifle was a Mauser 1893 7x57mm from Montgomery Wards, my next was a Ruger 10/22. If I had it to do over again, I would start with a new Savage single shot match rifle.

http://www.savagearms.com/markifvt.htm

The Mauser was way too powerfull for Ohio, and the Ruger ate ammo like a Rottweiler eats kibble, in 50 pound lots. I had a lot of fun with the Ruger, I still have it and wouldn't part with it for anything, but I think I would have been a better shot if I had been more disciplined with my ammo. Years later, I read book by an old time professional hunter in Africa who went out each day as a boy with one cartridge in his pocket and was expected to bring home something to show for it. I think the subconscious knowledge that you only have one shot is telling, it forces you to concentrate on making it perfect.
 
Yeah, Spectre; Kismet was right on. I was very amused to see him describing how to goof around with a 22 though. Get a brick, and if you can't find a way to have fun with a .22 you shouldn't have got out of bed. Maybe you aren't breathing.



munk
 
RonS said:
My first rifle was a Mauser 1893 7x57mm from Montgomery Wards, my next was a Ruger 10/22. If I had it to do over again, I would start with a new Savage single shot match rifle.

http://www.savagearms.com/markifvt.htm
Click to expand...


I've checked out a few of those little Savage .22 falling blocks that are on the site you put up there, and really have been wanting one of them.
 
I'll throw in another vote for the Ruger 10/22. I was taught to shoot when I was about ten with an old octagonal barrel pump action .22 and am not sure I've ever even shot a single shot .22. I'm sure a well tuned bolt gun can be a tiny bit more accurate than a 10/22, but if the 10/22 is tuned right, you're talking about splitting hairs for most folks. The 10/22 will give many years og enjoyment. I bought mine about 23 years ago and it has never let me down. It's accurate enough for serious plinking, easy to clean and maintain and seems to reliably feed whatever I put in the magazine. If you find yourself with a few more dollars down the line, there's a huge amount of aftermarket parts and tweaking that you can add to it to make it just like you want it. There was even a 10/22 only class of competition for a while but I'm not sure if that's still going on.

If your goal is serious bench rest bull's eye shooting, get the single shot bolt gun. If you want an all around gun that will work pretty well for bull's eye shoots, but can also take a 25 round banana magazine full of cheap .22 ammo for chasing cans across the range or perhaps the odd squirrel or two, buy a 10/22 and don't look back.

I like mine well enough that I've considered adding a plain stainless model to my small collection and then tweaking my original carbine model with a bunch of new parts.

The 10/22 is a classic that you'll likely never tire of.

John
 
boy, what a wealth of info.

i have to laugh though, as you guys are not aware of the restrictions on firearms here in Canada.

here's one to ponder. i need to obtain a permit to transport my firearm to a specific place at a specific time.

so if i go to Joe's gun shop repair i need a permit to go to his place exactly on Saturday. now if Joe can't fix it, i need to request another permit to go to Bob's gun shop next week. if i gave my firearms to my next door neighbour to look after while i'm on vacation, i need a permit to transport it even though he may literally 5 feet away.

you can get a longer period permit, like a shooting range to cover a few years (have to check). i might be exaggerating, but i believe i have interpreted the law correctly.

for me to plink cans out in the wild wouldn't be practical. i believe that outdoors i can only carry magazines with a 3 round capacity? i know that when you're hunting you are only allowed to carry 3 round magazines for sure. than i'd need a permit. hmm... i think i need to check on that.
 
oh yes i forgot. center fire semi auto rifles are allowed only 5 round magazine capacity. so i'd have to take my time to shoot otherwise i'd be reloading forever.

interesting laws, but since i've never ever ever been shot, they must be working.
 
Short form is that any shooting is better than not shooting! :)

A good 10/22 is pretty essential for any armory. I love mine, and one of my favorite games at the range (sadly no real plinking allowed) is to shoot the staples off my target at 25 yards until it falls off the backboard. Some days I'll put up a blank sheet of paper and staple it about 20 times :D. Can even compete with a friend, see who can do it with fewer shots.

I learned with an old German-made single shot .22, and taking single shots really does help with concentration and ammo conservation. However, with discipline any mag-fed semi can be used as a single shot. Gives you practice changing mags too. Too bad my 10/22 is so fiddly with the bolt release, I need to figure out why.

More important to me is that the new shooter starts with iron sights. Get that right and transitioning to a scope is pretty easy. Get the fundamentals right the first time and you don't have to break bad habits later. My wife was a non-shooter before we met, but is now quite familiar with the pistol. Unfortunately I don't have an iron-sighted .22 to start teaching longarms. Gotta get after that ASAP...
 
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