Fit and Finish - A Long Story

Just my $0.02 here.
After reading through this thread I don't think I will ever buy another one of your knives Ernie. You use your personal ego, carefully crafted and controlled reputation, and "in the field references" to slide past the QC and FnF issues reported back from your products. Those points really have nothing to do with the expectations of your unbiased costumers. There is nothing inherently wrong with a good worker knife that has a sloppy fit and finish and poor tolerances. You'd just assume something like that was built to a price. But when the average cost of your full production products exceeds those of Benchmade and Spyderco, unbiased consumers will have certain expectations. I'm a knife guy. Over the years I've spent thousands of dollars on all kinds of makes and models. I've come to know what makes a knife great or not. I have very specific characteristics that I'd come to expect from a folding knife in the >$150 range given the current manufacturing technology within the industry. The NAVY Seal that put one between Osamas eyes is not a knife guy. Nor is your average police officer. Doubtless your product serves them well enough, but so too could many other makes at lower price points. Good design, toughness, and strength are less expensive qualities when compared with reliability, feel, build tolerances, consistency, and quality of materials. I really don't see the justification for the cost and reputation of your products. I like to see American made products. But thats a nod towards patriotism rather than a guarantee of quality. My Spyderco Sage II feels like my Sabenza. It has an incredible build quality, with top of the line materials, and it was made in Taiwan. The common argument is your products are comparable to a Jeep, and Benchmade or CRK's products are built like BMWs. The trouble is I don't know of to many Jeeps that'll set you back what a bimmer costs. You've built a reputation around your products and you are very good at controlling your market. The same can also be said for Chris Reeve. The notoriety and regard you're giving your products with posts like these lends them towards being tough and enduring. But nothing else. When in reality thats just one of many factors that make a knife excellent. You're a knife maker. I don't need to tell you what separates a good folder from a poor one. So why you are so lax about issues with blade play, loose screws, average material quality, and sticky locks is beyond me. Just because someone has a hard knock like doesn't make those short comings excusable.

I do respect you however. Not for your products, but for the fact that you've built what have from nothing and stay true to your style. You absolutely take pride in your products. I'm in my Senior year at SDSU majoring in electrical engineering. I also take alot of pride in the systems I help design and build in my current internship, and in my career. As human being I think the only thing that separates us from other living species is that we can create, discover, invent, and develop. Whether it's art, music, technology, architecture, or infrastructure, creating something that thousands or even millions of people around the world can interact with is the most impressive achievement a person can have in my opinion.
 
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Moxy, your opinion is noted and welcome. Speaking as one who spends thousands of dollars a year on knives from various manufacturers, if I am biased, it is toward Emerson and Spyderco. Both companies produce quality products that are a joy to use and own. I have yet to receive a knife from either company that was not 100% what I expected. Now, I could go on about minor issues with Spyderco grinds and centering, but I would be gilding the lily. The fact still remains that both companies produce products that represent solid value, imo.

Many of the negative comments in this thread, are from people that have not done due dilligence in what they are buying, nor have they considered the design philosophy. Simply put, an Emerson production knife is for combat and related field duties. It can be taken down in the field, adjusted in the field, sharpened in the field on various surfaces and the blades are designed for toughness over edge holding. Personally, I like the concept of such a purpose driven knife. Does this suggest that I would give up my Gayle Bradley? Not just no, but hell no!

Spyderco and Emerson are both great companies run by competent and friendly people. Perhaps Sal said it best, "All good, just different."
 
Good point A.P.F.
And to add, that as a collector of many different knives myself, the stories that surround some of the models have a huge appeal for me. Not just the fact that the knives are a sound performer, these babies have stories. Most things collected, art, coins, anything really, all have some sort of historical significance or meaning. That's what makes them collectible.
I guess it all comes down to expectations and perception. I like to drive my G37 But I also like to drive my friend's old Malibu. Different drive, different rush.
Cheers
 
Moxy said:
Just my $0.02 here.
After reading through this thread I don't think I will ever buy another one of your knives Ernie. You use your personal ego, carefully crafted and controlled reputation, and "in the field references" to slide past the QC and FnF issues reported back from your products. Those points really have nothing to do with the expectations of your unbiased costumers. There is nothing inherently wrong with a good worker knife that has a sloppy fit and finish and poor tolerances. You'd just assume something like that was built to a price. But when the average cost of your full production products exceeds those of Benchmade and Spyderco, unbiased consumers will have certain expectations. I'm a knife guy. Over the years I've spent thousands of dollars on all kinds of makes and models. I've come to know what makes a knife great or not. I have very specific characteristics that I'd come to expect from a folding knife in the >$150 range given the current manufacturing technology within the industry. The NAVY Seal that put one between Osamas eyes is not a knife guy. Nor is your average police officer. Doubtless your product serves them well enough, but so too could many other makes at lower price points. Good design, toughness, and strength are less expensive qualities when compared with reliability, feel, build tolerances, consistency, and quality of materials. I really don't see the justification for the cost and reputation of your products. I like to see American made products. But thats a nod towards patriotism rather than a guarantee of quality. My Spyderco Sage II feels like my Sabenza. It has an incredible build quality, with top of the line materials, and it was made in Taiwan. The common argument is your products are comparable to a Jeep, and Benchmade or CRK's products are built like BMWs. The trouble is I don't know of to many Jeeps that'll set you back what a bimmer costs. You've built a reputation around your products and you are very good at controlling your market. The same can also be said for Chris Reeve. The notoriety and regard you're giving your products with posts like these lends them towards being tough and enduring. But nothing else. When in reality thats just one of many factors that make a knife excellent. You're a knife maker. I don't need to tell you what separates a good folder from a poor one. So why you are so lax about issues with blade play, loose screws, average material quality, and sticky locks is beyond me. Just because someone has a hard knock like doesn't make those short comings excusable.

I do respect you however. Not for your products, but for the fact that you've built what have from nothing and stay true to your style. You absolutely take pride in your products. I'm in my Senior year at SDSU majoring in electrical engineering. I also take alot of pride in the systems I help design and build in my current internship, and in my career. As human being I think the only thing that separates us from other living species is that we can create, discover, invent, and develop. Whether it's art, music, technology, architecture, or infrastructure, creating something that thousands or even millions of people around the world can interact with is the most impressive achievement a person can have in my opinion.
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One of the best posts I've read in a long time.
 
Years ago, I bought a CQC7 because I really liked the knife and I still do. I knew very little about Ernest but I knew he could design really nice knives. This is all I need to know.
Rolf
 
yeah I think people that had been dissapointed don't understand the philosophy behind his knives; to me the ergonomics are like no other and what could be cooler than the wave?
Having said this, out of my 5 Emerson knives only 1 had a slight imperfection regarding the scale matching the liner. Nothing bothering really and the rest of my Emerson are awesome F&F. In fact I was looking my new Karambit yesterday and couldn't find any imperfections at all ;)
 
Well I just received my first Emerson today - A Mini A100 SF. Been waiting for this knife to come for over two months, and being a perfectionist; this knife's fit & finish is fantastic. Sure the edge of the liners are not smooth & polished out, but I like that. I not going to compare it to my Small Sebenza, or my Strider SNG. I understand it's an Emerson. I will say the blade fit & finish on this knife is as amazing! I am very satisfied now that I have one in hand. This knife screams user. Just my two cents.
 
The thing is, customers still speak with their money, even though there are such an incredible number of experts (they'll let you know who they are) on forums like this. I can't believe so many companies became so successful before these communities of self proclaimed experts existed.

I like knives. You like knives. He likes knives. I don't judge anyone or any company's products with forum posts, I just choose to buy them, or not. If you don't like someone's products, don't buy them. The narcissism that runs rampant in the social interwebs seems to give people the confidence and belief that others actually want their opinion.

Before the 'net created so many yelping youtube experts, simple econmics seemed to work. I prefer it that way.

Moxy said:
My Spyderco Sage II feels like my Sabenza.
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Of course it does. It's an homage to Chris' pioneering use of dual titanium slabs and his Reeve Integral Lock that we now just genericize as a framelock. You have a Sabenza? I just had to say that we Cal Poly SLO Aero alums use Sebenzas. :D
 
I left the Navy in 2000 and was on a vanilla team (despite my nick). I have indeed seen a few Emerson knives carried in the teams. I can also state that I've seen 5x the Spyderco than I've seen of the Emersons. I am still in contact with my CPO buddy (he is DEVGRU) who carries an Emerson, a Spyderco and a TOPS fixed blade and he told me that the only knife he DIDN'T pay for was the Emerson.

Mr. Emerson, it common practice to "gift" knives to active SF personnel?
 
I do understand the frustration from being disappointed.
I have the same issue with a couple of Spydercos. I had purchased a stretch ZDP-189 Just before Christmas, and a translucent blue Manix 2 last week. The scales on the stretch protrude the liner, thus rubbing on the blade, will have to take apart and file them down. The blue Manix has blade play after only one week of opening and closing, no cutting. Also, the Manix is pinned so I can't adjust the pivot. I knew that going in but I thought I could have played with it for more than one week!
I do have other Spydies and they are ok, so I will not write off the company or go around with fears of 'flimsy spydercos' I will notch it up to lesson learned and, every company makes the odd lemon.
Cheers
 
The F&F isn't great; scales that don't align, etc., but the problem I have with Emerson is how quickly the liner-lock wears. I love the blade-shape of the SRH, but those skinny locks and 154 steel? I doubt I'd ever own one as a result, even at $200.

I'll admit that elasticity of demand allows for that $300 street price.... they obviously sell a lot in the retail channel at that price. Overpriced? Apparently not to many.
 
The human mind is a more dangerous weapon than any blade ever made by mankind. When we use a knife it becomes essintially an extention of our body therefore and extention of our minds. My mind seems to like how Mr. Emersons knives feel regardless of looks, materials, maker. It just feels right. That is how I choose my blades.
 
Spyderco vs Emerson. I'm not limiting myself, I like both. I have owned both for decades. Never been let down with either one. If something were to happen, I would feel fortunate to have either with me. Emersons are beautiful but they are users, just use it.
 
Apparently, someone hasn't looked at the price of a jeep lately. I will say this, the fit and finish on the liners and the scales could be better but to say that there are tolerance issues is really indicative of your lack of experience with Emerson knives. I own 5+ and they are the only knives that I have never had to adjust the blade play out of. They are rock solid which is more than I can say for my brand new 0560 which took me a while to adjust away the blade play. In the end, who really cares. Spend your money on what you want and stop advertising that to the rest of the world. Truthfully, most of the negative comments in this thread did nothing to add to the conversation aside from bolstering the other negative comments(which initially added nothing to the conversation).
 
Murdamook said:
Apparently, someone hasn't looked at the price of a jeep lately. I will say this, the fit and finish on the liners and the scales could be better but to say that there are tolerance issues is really indicative of your lack of experience with Emerson knives. I own 5+ and they are the only knives that I have never had to adjust the blade play out of. They are rock solid which is more than I can say for my brand new 0560 which took me a while to adjust away the blade play. In the end, who really cares. Spend your money on what you want and stop advertising that to the rest of the world. Truthfully, most of the negative comments in this thread did nothing to add to the conversation aside from bolstering the other negative comments(which initially added nothing to the conversation).
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This is my experience as well. I've had 6 or 7 Emersons (not a lot, compared to some) and every one has never needed anything from the time I opened the box until today. They just go straight into my pocket to be used. Like pmek5 said, I like the way Emerson finishes his knives. They look like the tools that they are. If I want jewelry, I'll buy a ring. If I buy a tool, I want it to look like one and I don't want to pay extra for someone to polish it up and take out a few tooling marks when I'm gonna put more marks on it just by using it. I'm not worried about doing anything with my Emersons, even when they're brand new, because they already look like the tools that they are.
 
dalefuller said:
.....They look like the tools that they are. If I want jewelry, I'll buy a ring. If I buy a tool, I want it to look like one and I don't want to pay extra for someone to polish it up and take out a few tooling marks when I'm gonna put more marks on it just by using it. I'm not worried about doing anything with my Emersons, even when they're brand new, because they already look like the tools that they are.
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Agreed. IMHO some knives are beautiful works of art and, if I owned them, I would never use them but would simply have them on display to admire. I see Emerson knives are tools to be used for their intended purpose, cutting stuff. I've tried to instill this type of knife discrimination in my kids so they understand the difference between getting a tool or getting an art piece. I really don't need my tools to look pretty, just need them to the job -- cut stuff!
 
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