Fixed pricing....

[RSpies]

Not a good sign indeed Mike, unless their goal is to downsize the Company.

That's what I've been thinking. Increasing their "value" by becoming more exclusive or some such business tactic. Or maybe everybody got fed up with making less/spending more money than before with no warning whatsoever. :S
I'm thinking the latter opposed to the former.

 

[Brian_R170]

Fixed pricing is a lot like price fixing, and it's an awfully un-American thing to do to consumers that buy their products because they are made in America.

 

[loonybin]

I think I may have seen my first casualty of the new pricing structure...
Today the wife and I went to one of our local "Mart" stores. Not the W Mart, but a locally owned chain of stores here in Oregon, that has been in business for years...

They don't have a huge selection of knives, but they do have a decent selection. For as long as I can remember, they have sold Benchmade, Buck, Gerber, Kershaw, and Leatherman.
I have bought a couple Benchmades from them over the years. They always had the Mini Grips, and the full size Grips, and every once in awhile, they would bring in a couple other models...
Well, today while the wife was shopping, I walked back to the sporting goods department, and stopped at the knife case first.
At first I thought I missed them, but as I looked closer, the Benchmades are now gone.

Wow... As soon as I noticed it, the first thing that came to mind was, the new pricing structure had claimed it's first casualty in my area.
And so it begins.

Yet, those are the stores this new price policy is supposed to help...

Fixed pricing is a lot like price fixing, and it's an awfully un-American thing to do to consumers that buy their products because they are made in America.

??? WTH??? What is un-American about a manufacturer wanting it's product sold at a certain price? Sounds like free-market capitalism to me. How is that un-American? If it's a bad decision, their pocketbook will tell them when their profits drop from fewer knives being sold. Then they get to choose to change their pricing policy or go out of business. Sounds pretty American to me...

 

[keroscene]

I made up my mind, b4 the price fiasco, that I was making my next knife purchase another BM. this was because of how amazing I was treated by their custy service when I twisted the head off a screw on my 580. A few days ago I came across a Volli at a local knife shop and purchased it at full retail. No complaints whatsoever here and I'm very glad I did it. A company like BM deserves to have loyal customers that support them fully (within reason) as long as they continue making superior quality knives and treating their customers like royalty.

 

[Brian_R170]

??? WTH??? What is un-American about a manufacturer wanting it's product sold at a certain price? Sounds like free-market capitalism to me. How is that un-American? If it's a bad decision, their pocketbook will tell them when their profits drop from fewer knives being sold. Then they get to choose to change their pricing policy or go out of business. Sounds pretty American to me...

I agree that if it's a bad decision, they will be the ones to feel the impact, eventually. However, attempting to control pricing in this way is not a free market by any definition. The funny thing is that it was illegal in the US until 2007, and even then it was barely overturned, which is why there's so much debate over it. I don't care if it's legal by the letter of the law, it certainly does not abide by the spirit of our antitrust laws, and frankly, American companies that do it should be ashamed.

 

[Skimo]

It's come and gone for about a century, what about 6 reversals?

I don't agree with it, but un-american? Hardly.

 

[338375]

Yet, those are the stores this new price policy is supposed to help...


??? WTH??? What is un-American about a manufacturer wanting it's product sold at a certain price? Sounds like free-market capitalism to me. How is that un-American? If it's a bad decision, their pocketbook will tell them when their profits drop from fewer knives being sold. Then they get to choose to change their pricing policy or go out of business. Sounds pretty American to me...

Yep. The store I mentioned has over 70 stores. Even at that, I don't think they will notice much of a drop in gross revenues, just because they are no longer carrying them.
I agree, while most of us don't like what they did, I certainly don't think there is anything illegal about what they did, and how they did it.

I made up my mind, b4 the price fiasco, that I was making my next knife purchase another BM. this was because of how amazing I was treated by their custy service when I twisted the head off a screw on my 580. A few days ago I came across a Volli at a local knife shop and purchased it at full retail. No complaints whatsoever here and I'm very glad I did it. A company like BM deserves to have loyal customers that support them fully (within reason) as long as they continue making superior quality knives and treating their customers like royalty.

You should continue to buy their products, if that is what you feel is right, and it's not our place to try and tell you otherwise...
There are many people who have supported Benchmade loyally for years. Because of the products they make, and their Customer Service.
There have been some who say that their experience with their customer service has been less than excellent, and some have had issues with the QC of products they have bought. I truly believe they are in the minority though.

However, the increasing of prices, and the way it was implemented, does not say to people that the company really cares about them. We have to remember, that theoretically BM isn't making more money with the current price structuring, but the dealers do stand to make more money, and we the consumer are feeling the only negative aspect of this situation, by having to pay substantially more for the same products we have bought in the past.

I agree that if it's a bad decision, they will be the ones to feel the impact, eventually. However, attempting to control pricing in this way is not a free market by any definition. The funny thing is that it was illegal in the US until 2007, and even then it was barely overturned, which is why there's so much debate over it. I don't care if it's legal by the letter of the law, it certainly does not abide by the spirit of our antitrust laws, and frankly, American companies that do it should be ashamed.

I think it shows that it is a free market, because a company has the freedom to raise the prices, that their products are sold at.
The Gov't should have absolutely no say in the issue imo. If BM was the only knife company in the U.S, and they raised the price by almost 33%, then it would be a problem because consumers would have no other choice, if they wanted to buy a knife...

It's come and gone for about a century, what about 6 reversals?

I don't agree with it, but un-american? Hardly.

Yep...

 

[thragdar]

I agree that if it's a bad decision, they will be the ones to feel the impact, eventually. However, attempting to control pricing in this way is not a free market by any definition. The funny thing is that it was illegal in the US until 2007, and even then it was barely overturned, which is why there's so much debate over it. I don't care if it's legal by the letter of the law, it certainly does not abide by the spirit of our antitrust laws, and frankly, American companies that do it should be ashamed.

Pure BS. Nobody HAS to be a Benchmade dealer. You could just as easily carry Spyderco, Microtech, Emerson, or any other knife. If Benchmade's terms are not to your liking you are FREE to search the MARKET for a better business deal. That is how a free market works. Benchmade is free to set the terms and conditions of the sale of its items. Every manufacturer is. If you disagree with those terms, feel free to walk away. It's that simple.

 

[jazub]

While I agree that BM's decision to inflate prices to the consumer is terrible, it is striking to consider that people don't also flip out over other companies' decisons to do the same in other ways. I mean, look, honestly, at beloved brands who decide to have their products made in China and Taiwan and then slap "Made in USA" prices upon them because of blade steel or some other minor expense. No, an ounce of CTS-204P does not cost a manufacturer an additional $130. Neither does a huge, arbitrary MSRP or having an etched name of the town in Asia where it was manufactured (for great savings). How people buy up that load of garbage amazes me. In a bad way.

I feel that BM is losing some of the moral high ground they held as a true Made In USA manufacturer, who doesn't egregiously manipulate pricing.

 

[AxisFan]

I think some folks misunderstand price fixing and antitrust laws. These laws are to prevent competitors from getting together and setting market prices, or from all of the competitors combining into 1 company and thus controlling prices. As long as Benchmade and Spyderco do not get together over lunch and negotiate their price lists, this is not what is happening. It is most definitely a 'free market' concept for a company to contract with its retailers to maintain a given price. If they've misjudged the market, they'll pay the price in lost income.

I agree that if it's a bad decision, they will be the ones to feel the impact, eventually. However, attempting to control pricing in this way is not a free market by any definition. The funny thing is that it was illegal in the US until 2007, and even then it was barely overturned, which is why there's so much debate over it. I don't care if it's legal by the letter of the law, it certainly does not abide by the spirit of our antitrust laws, and frankly, American companies that do it should be ashamed.

 

[skyhorse]

After a retailer purchases merchandise, imho pricing should become their decision. After all at that point it belongs to them. At that point items that ( don't ) sell become a liability to them and not Benchmade !

 

[steponmytoes]

Well although what Benchmade is doing is perfectly legal, it does seem a bit "un-American" to me as well. I mean what we think of as a free market has to do with people not messing too much with the laws of supply and demand. Look at CRK. They don't have to force anyone to do anything. Their prices are always the same everywhere you go because there is a high demand for them and their supply is limited. CRK makes great knives as does Benchmade (I think we can all agree). But instead of Benchmade just concentrating on making the best knife possible for the best price, they are manipulating the market. It may be Benchmade's right to do so... but I don't think that makes it right...

Sorry to bring up other companies to this discussion.

 

[338375]

I could be wrong, but I always though CRK prices were set by CRK, and that is why they are the same everywhere. If that is the case, and it has always been that way, that is totally different. Well, maybe it is kinda the same, but Benchmade pricing hasn't been that way, and they did a 33% increase overnight, without explanation to the customers.

 

[RSpies]

After a retailer purchases merchandise, imho pricing should become their decision. After all at that point it belongs to them. At that point items that ( don't ) sell become a liability to them and not Benchmade !

Yes but benchmade probably paid some corporate/businessman to come up with this increased value plan. Some people said that it only effects the end consumer, not true.
Benchmade's prices have gone up to the dealers as well, in the sense that if the dealerships have old stock they want to get rid of they can't discount it and nobody will buy it at full price. The dealer loses money, along with any poor bloke that indeed goes in to buy that knife. The only people that are benefiting from this are benchmade, and maybe not even then. Seems like this is backfiring pretty fast.

 

[338375]

I did something last night, that I haven't done for years. I went to all the other major manufacturers websites, and looked at all of their products...
What I found was, they offer a wide variety of different models. Some I had never seen before, and others I have heard of or seen, but never gave much though tothem.

There are some knives being made that are of good quality construction ( I researched the models after seeing them ), and are made with quality materials, and some are being offered at very reasonable prices...
There truly is a lot of competition out there for BM. Much like I did last night, I know there are others who have done the same thing, and will probably continue to do so...

Benchmade really needs to address these issues. We have already lost two major knife companies. Companies that made quality products, and had been around for many years. Both closures were from poor management decisions. It can happen, and once it reaches a certain point, there is no recovery.

 

[RSpies]

I did something last night, that I haven't done for years. I went to all the other major manufacturers websites, and looked at all of their products...
What I found was, they offer a wide variety of different models. Some I had never seen before, and others I have heard of or seen, but never gave much though tothem.

There are some knives being made that are of good quality construction ( I researched the models after seeing them ), and are made with quality materials, and some are being offered at very reasonable prices...
There truly is a lot of competition out there for BM. Much like I did last night, I know there are others who have done the same thing, and will probably continue to do so...

Benchmade really needs to address these issues. We have already lost two major knife companies. Companies that made quality products, and had been around for many years. Both closures were from poor management decisions. It can happen, and once it reaches a certain point, there is no recovery.

Well said sir. I think they are creeping ever close to that teetering edge, before all this they were the American company for Americans. Prestige and great products for fair prices and even better prices for those willing to shop around. Now it seems they are tiptoeing towards the corporate "pay us the money and everything else isn't of our concern" kind of attitude.

 

[harris2]

... We have already lost two major knife companies. Companies that made quality products, and had been around for many years. Both closures were from poor management decisions.

Interesting, I'm trying to remember to no avail who these two major knife companies are. Can you name them for us with aging memories?

 

[RevDevil]

While I agree that BM's decision to inflate prices to the consumer is terrible, it is striking to consider that people don't also flip out over other companies' decisons to do the same in other ways. I mean, look, honestly, at beloved brands who decide to have their products made in China and Taiwan and then slap "Made in USA" prices upon them because of blade steel or some other minor expense. No, an ounce of CTS-204P does not cost a manufacturer an additional $130. Neither does a huge, arbitrary MSRP or having an etched name of the town in Asia where it was manufactured (for great savings). How people buy up that load of garbage amazes me. In a bad way.

I feel that BM is losing some of the moral high ground they held as a true Made In USA manufacturer, who doesn't egregiously manipulate pricing.

Hmmm. The company you are speaking of though, does a lot of research into exchange rates and has a pretty simple profit margin. I don't see any deceptive business practices being covered up by anyone. In fact, that company has been more transparent in their overseas operations than anyone I've ever seen in the last 10+ years.

The discussions have been had in their respective forums regarding monetary exchange rates, which also happens to be publicly available information. The labor rates have also been discussed as to what those factory workers make (on average), the factories chosen are because of their skill level and consistency, and the ability to have a specific product at all is due to the factory overseas that can produce a quality product. I don't see how that all amounts to be selling customers a load of garbage. Benchmade knives were once produced overseas at one time as well. Many of the line are still made overseas, just because they have a different brand name slapped on the box makes little difference really. We all know who designs them, pays for them to be made, shipped, and sold by. I mean, if one is defective, it's going to sent straight to Oregon City for repairs, despite whatever Asian province it came from. Right?

 

[jazub]

Hmmm. The company you are speaking of though, does a lot of research into exchange rates and has a pretty simple profit margin. I don't see any deceptive business practices being covered up by anyone. In fact, that company has been more transparent in their overseas operations than anyone I've ever seen in the last 10+ years.

The discussions have been had in their respective forums regarding monetary exchange rates, which also happens to be publicly available information. The labor rates have also been discussed as to what those factory workers make (on average), the factories chosen are because of their skill level and consistency, and the ability to have a specific product at all is due to the factory overseas that can produce a quality product. I don't see how that all amounts to be selling customers a load of garbage. Benchmade knives were once produced overseas at one time as well. Many of the line are still made overseas, just because they have a different brand name slapped on the box makes little difference really. We all know who designs them, pays for them to be made, shipped, and sold by. I mean, if one is defective, it's going to sent straight to Oregon City for repairs, despite whatever Asian province it came from. Right?

You're referring to the statement made once and repeated often that profit margins are "basically" the same? Chosen for skill and consistency or chosen for significant cost savings, assigning such a product a made in USA price is garbage to me. Either way, the production knives to which we both are referring cost as much as or more than many made in USA Benchmade knives at MAP pricing and my point is that nobody is up in arms about that creative pricing structure. Ultimately, neither of us work for the company in question and I believe we have strong opinions which will not be swayed by the other, ever. Agree to disagree.

 

[loonybin]

I agree that if it's a bad decision, they will be the ones to feel the impact, eventually. However, attempting to control pricing in this way is not a free market by any definition. The funny thing is that it was illegal in the US until 2007, and even then it was barely overturned, which is why there's so much debate over it. I don't care if it's legal by the letter of the law, it certainly does not abide by the spirit of our antitrust laws, and frankly, American companies that do it should be ashamed.

Anti-trust laws have nothing to do with it. Anti-trust laws deal with more than one company getting together and colluding on pricing, marketing, etc. If Benchmade, Spyderco, ZT/Kershaw, and CRKT got together to set prices and manipulate the market together, then anti-trust laws would apply. We are dealing with one company who is setting terms for being a dealer with that one company, thus anti-trust isn't an issue. Benchmade is free to dictate terms of dealership. If those terms aren't abided by, they are free to end the relationship with that dealer. Are you saying they should be forced to deal with someone who refuses to honor the terms of their agreement? Benchmade is free to choose who they sell to, and dealers are free to choose whether to accept the terms laid out in order to become a dealer. Do I like the terms? No, and I am free to buy a knife from another manufacturer. In my situation, I am somewhat less free since there are so few knives that are truly ambidextrous like the Axis lock knives, but I am still free to get something other than Benchmade (or buy used).

Well although what Benchmade is doing is perfectly legal, it does seem a bit "un-American" to me as well. I mean what we think of as a free market has to do with government not messing too much with the laws of supply and demand.

Fixed that for you. Supply and demand is what will determine Benchmade's success with this price increase. If people choose not to buy, then supply will exceed demand and Benchmade will have to decide what to do to increase demand (reduce supply at the risk of not generating enough revenue/ increase QC a lot to justify the prices/ better materials/ lower prices back to where they were/ etc.)

Look at CRK. They don't have to force anyone to do anything. Their prices are always the same everywhere you go because there is a high demand for them and their supply is limited.

And CRK dictates what their knives can be sold at, just as Benchmade is doing, except I don't think they even list a MAP. They just dictate one price. Period.

CRK makes great knives as does Benchmade (I think we can all agree). But instead of Benchmade just concentrating on making the best knife possible for the best price, they are manipulating the market. It may be Benchmade's right to do so... but I don't think that makes it right...

They're not manipulating the market. They're trying to benefit their dealers (i.e. squeaky wheel gets the grease), as Benchmade won't make a penny more per knife. The dealers will make more per knife. Whether that offsets the loss in volume remains to be seen (my guess is no). In the end, the consumer loses, the dealer might lose, and Benchmade thinks it won't, but just might lose.