Flaws

[Keith Montgomery]

I hope that Bruce doesn't think I am attacking him in any way. I respect his opinion. I just disagree with some of what he has put forward here.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I hope that Bruce doesn't think I am attacking him in any way. I respect his opinion. I just disagree with some of what he has put forward here.

Keith, I sure didn't mean to imply that anyone tried to attack Bruce or was in any way disrespectful. That's what I like about this forum, discussion gets heated at times, however stays productive and respectful.

I was just joking that both makers and collectors have strong opinions which sometimes generates strong debate and discussion which is a great thing for all involved. This time however, it seems like it's more collectors involved in this debate then makers as this is a very important topic for us. Bruce just needs to get some of his fellow makers involved in this.

I know Steve is very busy these days with his multiple jobs (making, engraving, teaching both engraving and making), however it would be interesting to hear from him here. It was very good to hear from Harvey on the subject. I notice that some makers are viewing threads but rarely comment. I'm new here though, so I might be wrong .

 

[Starkman1]

I'm new to the custom knife scene and have been following this thread closely. When discussing flaws, I believe a distinction needs to be made between a flaw and an imperfection. A flaw according to Webster's is an "imperfection or weakness and especially one that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness." An imperfection is "a quality or state of being imperfect." How buyers and makers use the of the word flaw is certainly subjective. The price a maker asks should reflect that when he offers a piece for sale. I'm sure knowledgeable buyers are able to determine when a maker is passing off a flaw as an imperfection and whether the maker is pricing the knife accordingly.

I've purchased some knives that I believe to have some imperfections (and I paid a price that I think reflected that). These imperfections do not detract from the functionality and overall appearance of the knives. These knives will be used in the field and surely gain character over the years. However, if the knives were considered as an investment and/or display piece by both maker and buyer, these imperfections will certainly be deemed as a flaw.

Bruce, I understand where your coming from with your statement about "I was always taught that if you cant do any better than the other guy dont criticize him.When I look at a craft person or artists work,I never tell them they did something wrong,unless I know I can do it better." Although I may not be able to "do it better," I may be able to find someone else who can and for the same price if not better. Sorry fellas I haven't figured out how to use the quote message.

Kevin, I think it is an excellent idea about posting photos, if it can be done without bashing knifemakers. I admit I'm probably not one of those buyers I mentioned above. The "newbie" market is probably where unethical sellers and makers may target and pass off most pieces with flaws at top dollar.
My humble opinion....Bob

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Before I was sent my Ron Newton bowie, he informed me that there was a slight imperfection in the pattern welded steel used for the spacer. It took me quite a long time to find the tiny imperfection he wanted me to know about. If he had not mentioned it, I would not to this day have ever discovered it. It said a lot about Ron that he would point out something that I would have just considered part of making pattern welded steel (and still do for that matter).

There have been many other makers that have told me that they have had to remake a blade, handle or one piece of the furniture or other, because of there being something that they considered unacceptable. It is my opinion that most makers understand which imperfections are and aren't acceptable based on the price point and whether the knife will be part of a collection, or a user.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Kevin, my post was made because I thought that Bruce himself might be thinking that I was attacking him. I don't want makers to feel that if they take part in a thread and present thoughts from the makers' perspective that they will be flamed for it. Too many makers have decided that they will not take part in forum discussion, because they have had bad experiences in the past. I don't want to be someone that caused any makers to feel this way.

 

[Ebbtide]

It is practically impossible to have a valuable discussion like this, where everyone can participate, without naming SOME names, and using SOME examples.

It is certainly not personal.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Understood.

Bruce,
A maker should never take a criticism on this forum as an attack, unless it is truly derogatory or unfounded. Makers should understand that in a way that knife forums in general can be used as a free marketing research tool that can expose positives and negatives of a makers work.

Makers tend to have a hard time understanding or believing that people may not like their artistry, especially after the long hours and hard work they put into the finished product. They need to get over it and find people who do, or start making what people want. Knifemaking (or any arts/crafts trade) is not a job for the thin skinned, IMO.

Any creative endeavor is not suited for the thin skinned.

Just as there are different difinitions of and levels of flaws, there are different ways to address them.
And yes, that is why we, now and then, have to hold one up as an example.
If not for anything else, to get us all on the same page.

 

[Bruce Evans]

Hey Guys,Sorry I didnt get back here sooner....No I am not taking any of this as a attack on me,Heck if I am going to say something I have to expect to get the same back....I wasnt meaning to say anythibg mean to anyone inpartiqular....I Think I am just cracking under the stress of trying for my MS stamp...

Bruce