Flippers

[cigarrodog]

These flippers are essentially, scalpers. The gas analogy would be more accurate if there was only let's say 500 gallons announced to be left at gas stations everywhere for X amount of time and people rushed there, bought what they could and then resold it to people with no gas for a stupid mark up.

I'm not sure if we can tag them here, that's a question for the mods @Boru13 ?

That’s precisely my point. I agree with you.

 

[shinyedges]

First let me say that I dislike the whole sprint run flipping practice as well. So much so that I’m not even current with what’s going on with one of my favorite knife companies.

Just for clarification we’re mainly talking about someone selling newly released knives in a short period of time?

Edit

I don’t think calling them out here or tagging them is the right way to go about this.

Yes, we're talking about the people who buy up a knife right when it's released only to sell them nearly immediately for a mark up. Short of raising awareness of who the flippers are I don't know how else to even attempt to address the problem. If you have an idea I'm game to listen?


Clearly the flippers don't care if they're detracting from the community here, I don't know why listing those detractors would be a problem. I could see why a flipper wouldn't want to be named, because it shines a light on their shabby practices.

 

[katanas]

Perhaps someone (maybe you, shinyedges) who follows this can occasionally "out" the doers. Maybe start a "knife flipper" thread. Unless that would be some kind of rule violation???

 

[HWF]

It sucks because some of the flippers are contributing members of the community.

I’ve seen it all the time in the traditional forum. Especially people that aren’t necessarily flippers but price knives high because “that’s what the market demands”. If people just priced knives like they were meant to be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We need to stop paying the crazy prices just as much.

Just because it’s in demand doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all be looking out for each other.

 

[shinyedges]

Perhaps someone (maybe you, shinyedges) who follows this can occasionally "out" the doers. Maybe start a "knife flipper" thread. Unless that would be some kind of rule violation???

Going forward I would use this thread for that purpose, just edit the OP with the list of flippers. As it grows and more attention is drawn to it, hopefully those on the list see that the community at large doesn't appreciate the scalping.

 

[rycen]

Logistically this sounds like a nightmare. At what point does one become a flipper.

Also this causes another problem for me. While this is minor,currently people seem to think they can come in to someone’s sales thread and tell them what the price should be. This is not OK.

Spark has said if someone sells a quantity of the same knife they are considered a dealer. Obviously I won’t mention what the exact quantity is.

Basically if you think someone’s here solely to sell report them.

 

[stonesell]

It’s annoying, for example, if Spyderco Sprint run collectors get left out because of a cunning flipper. The solution may be for Spyderco, and authorized dealers to limit one knife per customer.
Nobody needs to buy these knives, to survive, feed their families, and get back and forth to work, so it’s not that serious of an issue.
We are talking some pretty small change here, and these guys will never get rich by flipping knives.
I think that they like the control that it gives them, and perhaps they think that it makes them look smart, and somehow needed. Perhaps it even enhancers their sense of self worth.
If there is some kind of list of certified flippers made here on BF, then they will just sell elsewhere.

 

[shinyedges]

It sucks because some of the flippers are contributing members of the community.

I’ve seen it all the time in the traditional forum. Especially people that aren’t necessarily flippers but price knives high because “that’s what the market demands”. If people just priced knives like they were meant to be, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. We need to stop paying the crazy prices just as much.

Just because it’s in demand doesn’t mean we shouldn’t all be looking out for each other.

I agree, if we remain silent on the issue how will they ever know it's looked down upon? If they really are good members of this community than they'll see the quick buck they make craps on a bunch of people and isn't worth it. If someone is solely here to flip and cares nothing of the community then they absolutely should be put on blast.

 

[shinyedges]

Logistically this sounds like a nightmare. At what point does one become a flipper.

Also this causes another problem for me. While this is minor,currently people seem to think they can come in to someone’s sales thread and tell them what the price should be. This is not OK.

Spark has said if someone sells a quantity of the same knife they are considered a dealer. Obviously I won’t mention what the exact quantity is.

Basically if you think someone’s here solely to sell report them.

I don't think it's the nightmare you think it is, watch for the next sprit run to drop and a blind person could spot the flippers that pop up immediately. They usually do exactly the following shortly after a Sprint drops and sells out:

Put multiple of the sprint up for sale for way more money than it sold for.



Those folks who do that are obvious and bold about it. They don't even wait a while. Someone then screenshots the scalper and posts it here, no tag necessary, and they get added to the list.


The dealer issue you mention isn't that hard to nail down either, they usually have hundreds upon hundreds of transactions and little to zero posts anywhere outside the exchange. Constantly selling brand new knives. They stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[katanas]

How about you change your thread title (I think only you can do that) to " List those (insert derogatory word you find fit) knife flippers". Just a thought.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

I dont really understand the practical purpose of this thread, and I think this frustration is misplaced.

HWF wrote “If people just priced knives like they are supposed to be, .....”

Talk about a loaded statement.

Who determines what the price is supposed to be? If I puchase a special knife (say a GEC rendevous knife or similar), is it wrong to sell it for more than I paid?

What if I buy 5 similar knives, and keep the two I like best and sell 3 on secondary market? Am I a flipper? Scalper? Wise collector? Does my moral standing depend on whether I sell for more, less, or the same as I paid? Does passage of time mitigate the evil? One week, 2 months, one year?

The solution for people upset by seller markups and other practices is to not do business with someone who has business practices you dont like.

 

[stonesell]

It’s also possible that some collectors, without money concerns, like to buy from flippers.
This way they don’t miss out completely on a Sprint Run, or some other limited run. The money is no issue to them, and it’s like them paying a fee for having their own personal Sprint Run Buyer, while they are busy taking in some large salary from their own business.
It’s just one example of how free enterprise can be a win win, even though some folks get priced out.

 

[shinyedges]

I dont really understand the practical purpose of this thread, and I think this frustration is misplaced.

HWF wrote “If people just priced knives like they are supposed to be, .....”

Talk about a loaded statement.

Who determines what the price is supposed to be? If I puchase a special knife (say a GEC rendevous knife or similar), is it wrong to sell it for more than I paid?

What if I buy 5 similar knives, and keep the two I like best amd sell 3 on secondary market? Am I a flipper? Scalper? Wise collector?

The solution for people upset by seller markups and other practices is to not do business with someone who has business practices you dont like.

I'm sorry you are confused as to the purpose of this thread. I'll break it down for you:

Identify and bring attention to the flippers, eventually making enough people aware so it effects the flippers sales.


The price isn't hard to determine. The manufacturer already set the price. Buying up as many as you can and charging what ever you want for them hurts the hobby and community.


Understand?

 

[shinyedges]

I've been asked to not name any flippers and I will honor that request. I truly don't understand why the flippers would be protected from being named, as I don't know of any rules it would break. That said, I'll do as I'm asked of.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

I'm sorry you are confused as to the purpose of this thread. I'll break it down for you:

Identify and bring attention to the flippers, eventually making enough people aware so it effects the flippers sales.


The price isn't hard to determine. The manufacturer already set the price. Buying up as many as you can and charging what ever you want for them hurts the hobby and community.


Understand?

No, I do not understand. I also think there is a lot of room for nuance and differing opinions on this topic.

It seems impractical to think a list of “flippers” will be useful to the community, but perhaps it will be.

It also seems highly questionable to suggest flippers are bad or immoral.

Manufacturers set price points for many reasons, I do not understand why selling/buying for more than MSRP is wrong? Is selling/buying for less than MSRP also wrong? You’re obviously frustrated, but I do not think this thread will be any solution.

Asking dealers or manufacturers to limit purchases per customer is a lot more positive and more likely to satisfy your concerns. However, dont be surprised if manufacturers and dealers do not share your concerns.

 

[ArchVV]

OP, this is certainly a respectable pursuit and your devotion to maintaining a level of dignity on this forum is commendable, but I also believe this:

The solution for people upset by seller markups and other practices is to not do business with someone who has business practices you dont like.

is the only real answer to this situation. Like HWF mentioned, this is basically routine in the traditional forum for a number of regular members. However, I don't always think it is necessarily intentional at the outset, as each pattern is often produced in so many variations and in limited numbers. This almost encourages the practice, as does the notion of selling any desirable item in limited quantities. Limiting any "sprint" type model to 1 per customer may certainly curb these minor bouts of avarice, but is that really reasonable to ask all dealers to do? I dunno It'll be interesting to see where this goes...

 

[shinyedges]

No, I do not understand. I also think there is a lot of room for nuance and differing opinions on this topic.

It seems impractical to think a list of “flippers” will be useful to the community, but perhaps it will be.

It also seems highly questionable to suggest flippers are bad or immoral.

Manufacturers set price points for many reasons, I do not understand why selling/buying for more than MSRP is wrong? Is selling/buying for less than MSRP also wrong? You’re obviously frustrated, but I do not think this thread will be any solution.

Asking dealers or manufacturers to limit purchases per customer is a lot more positive and more likely to satisfy your concerns. However, dont be surprised if manufacturers and dealers do not share your concerns.

I enlarged the portion of your post that enlightens us as to your position.

Now your opinion makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[shinyedges]

OP, this is certainly a respectable pursuit and your devotion to maintaining a level of dignity on this forum is commendable, but I also believe this:



is the only real answer to this situation. Like HWF mentioned, this is basically routine in the traditional forum for a number of regular members. However, I don't always think it is necessarily intentional at the outset, as each pattern is often produced in so many variations and in limited numbers. This almost encourages the practice, as does the notion of selling any desirable item in limited quantities. Limiting any "sprint" type model to 1 per customer may certainly curb these minor bouts of avarice, but is that really reasonable to ask all dealers to do? I dunno It'll be interesting to see where this goes...

I agree, not doing business with them is the best way to hurt them. Organizing or getting others attention to do the same in abstaining from purchasing from them takes it to the next level.

 

[jbmonkey]

I've been asked to not name any flippers and I will honor that request. I truly don't understand why the flippers would be protected from being named, as I don't know of any rules it would break. That said, I'll do as I'm asked of.

yeah I can see how this while great as an idear and used properly by the right folks, such as yourself, could very useful to the community.....but might be abused by some and go wrong.

 

[Elgatodeacero]

Since you have already decided that flippers are evil, I remain hopeful you will address the questions posed in my posts so we can all understand exactly what a flipper is and make sure we do not cross “the line.”