Flippers

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jbmonkey said:
yeah I can see how this while great as an idear and used properly by the right folks, such as yourself, could very useful to the community.....but might be abused by some and go wrong.
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Perhaps, as I see it there are ways to go about this other than a free-for-all. But I see not many others are interested in doing anything at all, or actually support the flippers :confused:

Maybe my good intentions were misplaced, apologies to all for attempting to anything at all.
 
Elgatodeacero said:
Since you have already decided that flippers are evil, I remain hopeful you will address the questions posed in my posts so we can all understand exactly what a flipper is and make sure we do not cross “the line.”
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My posts above already quite clearly outline what a flipper is. Actually most of the people in this thread know exactly what I'm talking about, obviously with you being the exception.

If you don't understand how someone who purchases as many of a limited number of knives as they can only to sell them immediately for more money hurts the community, then I can't help you understand morals. Good day.
 
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shinyedges said:
I agree, not doing business with them is the best way to hurt them. Organizing or getting others attention to do the same in abstaining from purchasing from them takes it to the next level.
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There are a lot of people with money, who are willing to pay, and it’s a big connected world. You won’t be able to make much of a difference. There is always a buyer, just like there is always a seller.
What is disgraceful, is outright theft and mail fraud, but also hard to eradicate.
 
shinyedges said:
I'm not sure if we can tag them here, that's a question for the mods @Boru13 ?
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Hold off on the tagging and naming names for now, might actually do more harm than good... it's not to hard to figure out who the flippers are.

I think the easiest way to deal with this would be to enforce the following.

DEALER / MATERIALS PROVIDER - Dealers are defined as anyone who purchases at wholesale pricing, or purchases items with the intent to resell (flipping). Other terms for dealers include purveyor, broker, reseller, etc. Materials Providers offer raw materials such as steel, handle materials, or other items related to knifemaking in general as typical stock for sale to the forum members or to the general public via their own store front or website.
 
shinyedges said:
Perhaps, as I see it there are ways to go about this other than a free-for-all. But I see not many others are interested in doing anything at all, or actually support the flippers :confused:

Maybe my good intentions were misplaced, apologies to all for attempting to anything at all.
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naw, it was worthwhile and was started with only good for the community intentions, and I support that completely. I'm with ya, but can see the political side of it as well and that always ruins all great idears.

I appreciate you put effort into trying to start to solve a real problem in this and many other hobbies.
 
jbmonkey said:
naw, it was worthwhile and was started with only good for the community intentions, and I support that completely. I'm with ya, but can see the political side of it as well and that always ruins all great idears.

I appreciate you put effort into trying to start to solve a real problem in this and many other hobbies.
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It would be a monumental task no matter what, and certain to kick up dust. Doing nothing is usually the easiest way. I appreciate the support :thumbsup:
 
I knew this would be like spitting in the wind, because agreeing to even what is the definition of flipping, much less whether it’s wrong or right to do so, is already problematic. I thought shinyedges shinyedges summed it up nicely.

My concern is narrowed to those who systematically and consistently purchase multiples of limited runs for the sole purpose of selling for profit, thus “gaming” the system, while effectively blocking others in the community from access to the knives.

In these cases, it’s really the Dealers/Manufacturers who create this system. I repeatedly say that this would end by allowing a limit for purchase. One example is an unnamed knife dealer states that even an attempt to place a second order will result in the loss of both orders. Selling multiples in especially the tradional arena, invites flipping. In fact, I’ve observed the dealers sell elsewhere at grossly inflated prices. When I see that, I have to doubt their sincerity in wanting to create a fair system.

In the end, I doubt that you’re going to change the behavior of flippers or Dealers. I do like that so far, we can discuss civilly while disagreeing vehemently.
 
shinyedges, at least you tried to do something. :thumbsup: Many times a solution to a problem reveals itself to be more complicated than first thought. :( If, however, someone claims to stand on a principle and does/says nothing, well, that is NOT standing it is pontificating. :mad:
 
Elgatodeacero said:
Since you have already decided that flippers are evil, I remain hopeful you will address the questions posed in my posts so we can all understand exactly what a flipper is and make sure we do not cross “the line.”
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You're being deliberately obtuse. This isn't rocket science man.

A flipper is an individual that's very easily identified.

I'll make things CRYSTAL CLEAR for you -

Has a rare/limited/sprint run knife been released recently? If yes, progress.

Is this individual in possession of multiple copies of said knife? (Let's be clear, a knife and a second doesn't qualify. We're talking 3 or more.) If yes, progress.

Is this knife being sold almost immediately after the initial run? If yes, continue.

Is the knife marked up significantly, in a way that's clearly in the pursuit of profit? If yes, this person is likely "flipping" knives.

These individuals may or may not also exhibit the following qualities - Low post count. Low post count outside of the Exchange. A pattern of the aforementioned steps.

A flipper doesn't do anyone any good save for themselves. This post wasn't referring to an individual who happened to buy a knife for legitimate reasons and decided to sell it later on down the line and make a profit. Let's face it, if we happen to buy a knife we're genuinely interested in and when it's time to sell it find that the market is void of said knife and there's a demand, thus raising the price beyond that of which we paid for it, most of us will capitalize on said serendipitous moment.

A flipper synthetically creates said environment by buying up all of the "in demand" knives deliberately so that he/she may make profit.

Good?
 
While I understand the good intentions, I don't see this going well. For example does a flipper have to have 3 or more? What about 2? What about 1? Definitions can be slippery things. Then there is the moral angle. Is it truly immoral to sell a scarce commodity for a large profit? Isn't that mostly what the economy is based on? Only if it is artificially scarce? Somebody had better tell deBeers...or Busse. Then there is the political part. Who gets to decide who is on the blacklist and why? What is too much profit and why? Who gets to decide? Is there an appeals process or is it just whatever the mob decides?

Supply and demand. Let the market work. If you don't like the markup don't pay it. If no one pays it the price will go down. If someone else is willing to pay it then it was a good price.
 
One other facet of this I've experienced, I'll use the BRS alpha beast as an example. You get like 24 hour notice they're gonna be in stock, and they sell out extremely fast. Say payday isnt for another week anyways. If someone buys two, and sells one a week later for a $50 markup, I now have an opportunity to actually own it albeit for a markup.

I don't like that practice, but I think the pressure should be on huge retailers to limit extremely sought after knives to one per customer.
 
Again I understand the sentiment but as a businessman why would I do that? I have a customer right here in front of me who wants to buy two dozen of my product vs 23 guys somewhere that might buy my product? I can tell you how that is going to go every time....
 
Triton said:
Again I understand the sentiment but as a businessman why would I do that? I have a customer right here in front of me who wants to buy two dozen of my product vs 23 guys somewhere that might buy my product? I can tell you how that is going to go every time....
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From a retail stand point this makes sense.
 
Well since we can't name folks, that's all she wrote folks. Luckily we have people coming out the woodwork with comments that make them look like a fool.
 
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