Flipping!

[SubSpace]

I feel the pain of this thread.
As much as I want a 14 barlow, I will not pay secondary market for one.
Reservations closed before I even had a chance.
Buying a knife should not be a competition.
I'll just let go, wish everyone well, and enjoy what I have.

 

[u812]

I don't mind flippers. I do it from time to time. Always fun to make a little off a hobby. I and many others have knives and other items in our collections just for profit later. Just about my entire savings is in physical items in my safe.Hard goods are many times better at growing a return than saving cash or the stock market. I no longer have a 401 k plan. I changed jobs during the crash of 08 and lost half of what I had in a 401 K account.

 

[philllll]

I want to know if there's a thread where we can name people that do it. Since this started in the traditional thread, there's one particular member who I refuse to sell to because he buys strictly to flip knives on eBay.

You guys probably have seen him jump on the SFO's and other hard to find knives within seconds......he literally just bought a 2014 Forum knife not too long ago for a really great price. It's now on eBay with a starting bid that's $70 higher. This is the 4th one I believe he's done this with. Not to mention all the others knives.

At what point does he become a dealer and need that membership level?

I came across a very similar situation a couple years ago. Someone was doing pretty much the same thing with Spyderco knives. I ended up selling something to him without realizing his M.O. and then it popped up on ebay the very same day he got it in the mail with a hefty price increase. I started digging and found probably 30+ examples of him doing the same thing by examining his iTrader feedback here versus his eBay completed sale auctions. After speaking with the mods about it, I think it was determined that he was within his rights because he was buying here and then selling elsewhere, but never buying here and then trying to flip them here too (which would have required a dealer membership). YMMV.

 

[meako]

Just posted this in trads- the mustangs GEC 74 s have vanished before they even appeared it would SEEM-how is that??
Here we see remote location or international knife enthusiasts taking delivery of their latest GEC acquistion.

 

[swaybacksteve]

Flipping unfortunately occurs in all hobbies, as has been mentioned. As long as a collector or fan is willing pay the up charge, it will continue to happen. I personally will not pay the obvious flipper. I don't even like feeding into the excuse that someone buys one each of a particular model...say one each of the recently release mustangs, just to see which one "I like the best"...then to see the knives for sale. Some keep the costs to within the added cost in this flip but I see too many with some kind of finders fee. And in GEC's case it is getting more and more difficult to get the truly LE's when practically all the knives being presented are limited. It is the same collectibility factor that soured me on many G shock watches. I left that hobby when I found the traditional knife forum.
I think that the manufacturer and the dealers have to take steps in curbing much of this flipping.
Some dealers are not taking pre-orders any longer or plan to stop.Email notification from some has been helpful. For the SFO's I would appreciate a one knife order policy.
The secret wink and a nod pre-orders will probably always exist. Customers and dealers have cultivated a certain relationship...it's gonna happen. Part of the hobby is cultivating such a relationship. I've been turning more and more to the custom knife builder...even tho the flipping occurs there also. I like the way fiddleback forge do their weekly sale. Limit to 3 knives per "shark" or post and especially the 1 knife period of the new kitchen knives. I know such a model can't be done for GEC, but I would like to see more effort from the official sellers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[meako]

Wolves don't care what the sheep think of their hunting practices, so don't think that criticizing them in the forum will make any difference.

When something becomes a hotly sought-after and somewhat rare commodity, profiteering will occur.

If you want to buy GEC knives, you have to find a retailer who will take advance orders and get set up for whatever sort of notification system they have, and be willing to move fast to lock in what you want. Then of course you don't get to see the final product until after you have committed to buy it, so hopefully it looks like what you had hoped.

GEC could increase their prices until they discovered the point where supply equals demand, rather than let someone else skim all of that extra profit by flipping their items.

comparing them to Wolves is a bit rude ....to wolves .More like Jackals I reckon.
I'd actually rather pay the extra to GEC than to some parasitic "businessman" who has clamped on to our enthusiasm like some nuclear mutant cattle tic.

 

[avoidspam]

comparing them to Wolves is a bit rude ....to wolves .More like Jackals I reckon.
I'd actually rather pay the extra to GEC than to some parasitic "businessman" who has clamped on to our enthusiasm like some nuclear mutant cattle tic.

Where's the "like" button when you need one!!?

 

[meako]

Guess GB&U is the place after all.

PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES, EVERYONE! LET'S GET THE FLIPPERS!

Heey is that the latest GEC pitchfork? Drat! missed out on that too but just saw one ebuy with 30% mark up.
Right! I think we all know what I think of flipping. Now! to the old mill and burn the monster.

 

[Sosa]

Plenty of more lucrative investments. Not worth my time.

 

[braillediver]

I've been busy with life closer to home.

Why blame the people flipping when you've made a conscious trade off? I don't understand why you feel entitled to a knife at certain price?

My feeling is that although there will alway be a medium for flipping (Ebay etc) this forum should not be one of them.

Who would Dictate the price and how would that work? What is the allowable markup or can a knife only be sold for what they originally sold for- is that msrp or retail and does it include taxes? Can I only lose money when selling on Bladeforums? There'd be a lot less knives trading hands if anything like this was Dictated.

I dislike losing money on a knife purchase so I think the buyer should be forced to pay what I paid. It's the same as what you're complaining about.

This is a free market if you don't like the price don't buy it. You're the only one who can decide what you think is fair and no one can dictate your concept of fair onto others.

Mitch

 

[Will Power]

This profiteering on GEC knives (well, that's actually what this thread is about, Traditional Knives and the Change that has happened, not just 'flipping' in general) begins to blight the hobby and interest for me and I suspect many others. It is distasteful and rather compromises some of the ethos/comradeship of the Traditional Forum - where supposedly a 'Porch' prevails and altruism is common.

Yes I know that a market will determine etc...but the two underpinnings of this are greed and foolishness. Plus the shallowness of whim & fashion. SFOs have ignited this trend, most especially the way in which some individuals seems to be able to access multiples of knives via pre-orders or knives are oddly sold out before anything is even finalized. The dynamic is born that this is 'an awesome must have now knife' and so the flipper can fill the void. They rake in a profit (in a situation where many interested buyers are locked out from access from the start) and the buyers of these knives at inflated prices are utterly convinced a) if it's expensive ergo it must be good b) the value of such 'rarities' will continue to climb astronomically. This is the foolish part and the greed, whims or trends in collecting can suddenly implode, yesterday's flavour can leave people with a big hole in their pocket, the market (or should I say, appetite) can determine that as well.

Not long ago , I saw a GAW with a very decent knife, naturally many were interested and I remember the winner beaming in faux appreciation & satisfaction only to sell the same knife at a fat price just days later, I found it objectionable and I agree with Sam, flipping and naked greed undermines genuine interest and appreciation for knives and it compromises the respect of others. I've decided I won't pay a hefty after sale price (plus I have to pay import tax too) for any knife, Why? They are simply not worth it and why should I feed a parasite who has inside access to knives that others don't? " I just got these in, they're not for me so they're catch & release" Yeah right but nowhere near a price you caught them for. No thank you.

 

[JB in SC]

This is not a new issue in the knife world.

What is new is the hoopla over a production knife (GEC) that has developed a cult following (i.e. the SFO's).

As several have posted the market will decide the pricing and adjust, a prime example is the tools Peter Atwood makes. Some were bringing five times the price direct from Peter a few years ago. Now only real rarities (one offs) are bringing those same prices. One thing Peter did was increase his output, GEC can do the same.

I hope that GEC will increase output on certain popular patterns. I doubt they care about the secondary market, only the initial buyer. The SFO's are another matter and as I understand it have been restricted by GEC to only so many knives in each cover material per run. There are hits and misses with GEC, dealers are sitting on Navy knives as we speak, lots of them. A nice knife with a really limited appeal.

The Barlows have hit a sweet spot with collectors, and rightly so. Charlie (and GEC) has done a great job with the knives and cover choices. There will probably not be enough made to satisfy demand anytime soon.

 

[TsarBomba]

Heey is that the latest GEC pitchfork? Drat! missed out on that too but just saw one ebuy with 30% mark up.
Right! I think we all know what I think of flipping. Now! to the old mill and burn the monster.

I love you, meako.

 

[TsarBomba]

Why blame the people flipping when you've made a conscious trade off? I don't understand why you feel entitled to a knife at certain price?
Who would Dictate the price and how would that work? What is the allowable markup or can a knife only be sold for what they originally sold for- is that msrp or retail and does it include taxes? Can I only lose money when selling on Bladeforums? There'd be a lot less knives trading hands if anything like this was Dictated.
I dislike losing money on a knife purchase so I think the buyer should be forced to pay what I paid. It's the same as what you're complaining about.
This is a free market if you don't like the price don't buy it. You're the only one who can decide what you think is fair and no one can dictate your concept of fair onto others.

Found the flipper!

 

[choombak]

If flipping evaporates interest in the hobby, then it is time to move on. No dearth of hobbies in this short span of time we spend on earth. The porch still exists, and there are quiet a few who hang around. There is always going to be a next fad, so wait out till flippers move on to new targets. [emoji2]

 

[Nature Boy]

I'd like to name the person I'm speaking of but don't want an infraction for doing so...

I get the feeling that anyone who participates in that sub forum and exchange has a good idea of whom you are speaking of. I'm fairly new around here, and, mainly from observation, have a sense of who is doing what with their knives.

 

[r8shell]

I agree it can be a bummer when you have your heart set on a particular knife, and know you have a very slim chance of getting your hands on one. I own but one #15 TC Barlow, which was a gift that I treasure, and doubt I will be able to acquire a #14 Barlow in the future. (and when I miss out on a clip point scratted #14, I may just cry) but I don't really see what can be done about it. Free market capitalism, supply and demand, etc. Folks who are only in it for the money will not be influenced by social pressure.

On the other hand, I console myself with the fact that this seems to be the case with not all runs of knives, as there are still some very nice GECs available on dealer's websites right now. They are just not the latest, hottest, offerings.

 

[Nature Boy]

Found the flipper!

I've really enjoyed your images as of late, TB!

 

[TsarBomba]

I agree it can be a bummer when you have your heart set on a particular knife, and know you have a very slim chance of getting your hands on one. I own but one #15 TC Barlow, which was a gift that I treasure, and doubt I will be able to acquire a #14 Barlow in the future. (and when I miss out on a clip point scratted #14, I may just cry) but I don't really see what can be done about it. Free market capitalism, supply and demand, etc. Folks who are only in it for the money will not be influenced by social pressure.
On the other hand, I console myself with the fact that this seems to be the case with not all runs of knives, as there are still some very nice GECs available on dealer's websites right now. They are just not the latest, hottest, offerings.

If my "constantly annoy the $#!* out of Charlie until he capitulates and orders scratted Ancient 14s" plan is successful, I will reserve two and send you one at dead retail.

I've really enjoyed your images as of late, TB!

Muchas gracias. Now go get your torch.

 

[r8shell]

If my "constantly annoy the $#!* out of Charlie until he capitulates and orders scratted Ancient 14s" plan is successful, I will reserve two and send you one at dead retail.

Dude, You rule!



I've been curious, how many knives can someone sell per month before needing to get a dealer's membership? There isn't a specific number, is there?