Flipping!

Status
Not open for further replies.
I've been curious, how many knives can someone sell per month before needing to get a dealer's membership? There isn't a specific number, is there?

Doesn't seem to be. However, in the GEC thread over in Trads (if my memory isn't failing me), we discovered that if the mods catch someone flipping on the Exchange (buying low, selling high) regularly they'll put the full-court press on to upgrade to dealer. I think that's fair in lieu of an arbitrary limit on sales on the Exchange. Course my opinion on this is irrelevant, seeing as I don't have a paid subscription here at all, so I can't sell a story for a song in the first place.

Unfortunately, flippers who hit dealers and then come here to sell, or those who buy here and then toss the knife up on fleabay for a Buy It Now price around 150% of what they paid for it, are immune from mod scrutiny. We'll have to let the market decide, and personally I don't have enough faith in my fellow man to believe "the market" would ever grow a conscience and punish those bulk-buy flippers by forcing them to hold onto their expensive new never-left-the-tube knives until they give up and dump them at cost.
 
Interesting subject .
This thread getting jettisoned from the Traditional Forum is a great example of why I spend so little time there anymore .

Ken

This is where a topic like this belongs.

BF needs a place for people to vent their frustrations while not killing the soul of some other really good sub-forums that don't really benefit much from a witch hunt for "flippers"

There is not one "Hobby" on the planet does not contain something similar (or exactly) to what we call "flippers"

If you don't like them, ignore them. It's really simple.

There is not going to be a state of "Nirvana" anywhere, let alone on a internet forum. There's all kinds of people on this forum (and in every corner of this planet) with agenda's or a way of doing things that you may or may not agree with.

The good news is that there will always be a group of people that share your ethics and morals and are doing (insert anything here) for the same reason you are. Play with those people.....
 
I don't condone the act of making money off of what I consider to be friends and at least people of a like mind, but it is like getting mad at the rain.

It's going to happen, it happens because there are two willing participants, and as long as someone will buy at the inflated price there will be people trying to sell at an inflated price.

It is simple to just not buy if the price is not attractive, and when you have a knife that you really want for your collection, then you might just find yourself a willing participant.

I made this graphic a while back, and since it pertains....

jack_the_flipper.jpg


best

mqqn
 
And that's why I steer clear of limited editions. I'm not waiting and am not paying.
 
I don't condone the act of making money off of what I consider to be friends and at least people of a like mind, but it is like getting mad at the rain.
It's going to happen, it happens because there are two willing participants, and as long as someone will buy at the inflated price there will be people trying to sell at an inflated price.
It is simple to just not buy if the price is not attractive, and when you have a knife that you really want for your collection, then you might just find yourself a willing participant.

Agreed, but sometimes you want to be able to vent about the weather, too. :cool:

Perfect graphic for the thread. :thumbup:
 
Agreed, but sometimes you want to be able to vent about the weather, too. :cool:

Perfect graphic for the thread. :thumbup:

And I am the worst for that. ;^)

best

mqqn
 
Glad to see this thread arise, as it's an important topic that should be discussed. Like others, I've missed out on knives because they sell out instantaneously or a reserve window closes quickly while I'm deciding between bone or stag. But I've also reserved some nice knives and picked up other limited editions by being diligent about the hunt.

I don't flip knives. I carry and use every knife I buy and they will be passed down to my daughter. (No doubt when I'm gone, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth when they realize that all these knives have been carried, sharpened and have scuffed bolsters). My knives aren't bought as investments. But, I can understand that there is money to be made here by flipping knives.

I was a part of a cigar board for many years that had a vibrant sales sub-forum. Profiteering was vigorously discouraged and you simply did not sell your sticks for more than you paid. We considered each other brothers that were a part of that community because of our shared love of the leaf and it would have been disrespectful to make money off of each other.

I would not mind seeing a limit set by distributors when they offer an SFO for reserve. A two-knife limit seems fair so that more folks could have the chance to own a limited model when it comes along. A profiteer might still flip those two knives at an obscene profit, but you could perhaps get more knives into the hands of those who just want a nice knife at a retail price. I realize that someone who just missed out on an Elk Mustang would agree with this solution, while those who were quick on the draw and reserved one in each handle choice would not.

This is a popular hobby that is growing. I myself just re-discovered the joys of collecting traditional pocket knives. People like myself add pressure to those who have been collecting in relative obscurity for years. More knife lovers are showing up, which is good for the industry, but bad when one sees new hobbyists joining the crowd that wants a limited commodity. New hobbyists also drive up the price...supply and demand. Look at KSF's recent Esky Zulu...$200 bone and $260 mammoth models were gone in three days. An entire run sold out in a feeding frenzy, at prices that just a few years ago would have been unthinkable for a production, tradional pocket knife.

Like most things in life, no easy solution and certainly none that would please everyone.

(All thoughts above are strictly my opinion, and worth every penny you paid for it! :) )
 
Last edited:
Why blame the people flipping when you've made a conscious trade off? I don't understand why you feel entitled to a knife at certain price?



Who would Dictate the price and how would that work? What is the allowable markup or can a knife only be sold for what they originally sold for- is that msrp or retail and does it include taxes? Can I only lose money when selling on Bladeforums? There'd be a lot less knives trading hands if anything like this was Dictated.

I dislike losing money on a knife purchase so I think the buyer should be forced to pay what I paid. It's the same as what you're complaining about.

This is a free market if you don't like the price don't buy it. You're the only one who can decide what you think is fair and no one can dictate your concept of fair onto others.

Mitch

Whilst part of what you say is correct I think you are missing the point.No one has suggested that one should lose money on a deal. ie it is foolish to suggest selling a knife for less than you paid for some noble fantasy idea of esprit de corps . The beef in question is slightly more abstract.
Flipping (colloquially is this- if I may.) Purchasing an item in order to re sell it at an immediate profit with no intention or interest in collecting or keeping it to use.
At least you have convinced me of one certainty-a gentleman's agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.
cheers.
 
there are sheep
sheep%20in%20dust.jpg

and then there are sheep
623583032.jpg

still don't see why we should get fleeced.
 
I find it annoying the people selling a 'catch and release' at "the price they paid" then tack on extra shipping and PayPal fees. and
they probably didn't pay extra for shipping or paypal.

passed up many offerings listed that way.
 
Sadly shipping and paypal fees are imo a separate penalty.It simply costs a bit to send stuff.I feel that such costs are not part of the flippage.
 
Flippers stay in business because of so many passionate collectors. It's a symbiotic relationship that's not going to change much. The collectors with piles of cash, don't worry about paying too much, they just buy what they want, and will pay extra for the flipper's service. The collectors on a budget, may have to set their sights lower, if they can't compete. Personally, I avoid any scarce high demand items, and all sales techniques that create a buying frenzy. I like to choose slowly and carefully, knives that are in stock, and easy to buy.
 
Last edited:
I only very rarely wander outside Trad these days (not that I'm posting much at all at the moment). I therefore don't really see the practices under discussion very often, but I have been made aware of them by other posters on occasion, in relation to particularly shameless behaviour (eg individuals selling knives they just won in a giveaway, or really hiking up the price of GEC knives or the annual Traditional forum knife - there was a case of a poster trying to trade his 'reservation' for a GEC pattern!). I don't like the creeping commercialisation I have witnessed in The Porch over the past few years, and know I'm not alone in that. I buy knives to use, collect, I have far more than I need, I give a few away, haven't sold one to date (probably too lazy). I don't have a problem at all with people selling or trading their unwanted knives, it keeps them circulating, and allows folks to buy more knives. Buying knives just to sell them on at a very high profit, doesn't sit well with me, particularly when this inevitably happens with much sought after patterns, it just seems a bit exploitative. The fever around certain patterns I also find a bit daft too though.

Good to see you Charlie (RevDevil), sorry we don't come into contact more often my friend, and I hope all is well with you :) :thumbup:
 
This thread's probably going to get shut down, sadly. It is something that needs to be talked about, but that is apparently not meant to happen here.

Is there a place (besides GB&U, given that this isn't about one particular transaction or user/seller/dealer) where opinions can be given on these practices? Given that BFC has the Exchange, the site is at least somewhat complicit in this very behavior (though obviously not responsible). At the very least, it should provide a place where we can vent some steam about this stuff.

I'm getting that same sick feeling in my gut that OP probably felt with the Esky run just thinking about how much over retail I'm going to have to pay to obtain a #14 TC Barlow this summer while flippers sit around biding their time with coffers filled with tubes they'll open only once for photos. I doubt I'm the only one.

Oh, and to address what some have already said and will continue to say, the artifice of "short runs" is exaggerated when your entire business model is built upon them. So, in the end, the manufacturers are stoking fires that the "free market" normally would extinguish, to the glee of the flippers.
It's there money don't like it sit and get one before they do free market is free market
 
I would find it less objectionable if the flippers actually sported a Dealer membership, as described in the Rules. There several obvious players, and the game isn't limited to the Traditional section
 
This profiteering on GEC knives (well, that's actually what this thread is about, Traditional Knives and the Change that has happened, not just 'flipping' in general) begins to blight the hobby and interest for me and I suspect many others. It is distasteful and rather compromises some of the ethos/comradeship of the Traditional Forum - where supposedly a 'Porch' prevails and altruism is common.

Yes I know that a market will determine etc...but the two underpinnings of this are greed and foolishness. Plus the shallowness of whim & fashion. SFOs have ignited this trend, most especially the way in which some individuals seems to be able to access multiples of knives via pre-orders or knives are oddly sold out before anything is even finalized. The dynamic is born that this is 'an awesome must have now knife' and so the flipper can fill the void. They rake in a profit (in a situation where many interested buyers are locked out from access from the start) and the buyers of these knives at inflated prices are utterly convinced a) if it's expensive ergo it must be good b) the value of such 'rarities' will continue to climb astronomically. This is the foolish part and the greed, whims or trends in collecting can suddenly implode, yesterday's flavour can leave people with a big hole in their pocket, the market (or should I say, appetite) can determine that as well.

Not long ago , I saw a GAW with a very decent knife, naturally many were interested and I remember the winner beaming in faux appreciation & satisfaction only to sell the same knife at a fat price just days later, I found it objectionable and I agree with Sam, flipping and naked greed undermines genuine interest and appreciation for knives and it compromises the respect of others. I've decided I won't pay a hefty after sale price (plus I have to pay import tax too) for any knife, Why? They are simply not worth it and why should I feed a parasite who has inside access to knives that others don't? " I just got these in, they're not for me so they're catch & release" Yeah right but nowhere near a price you caught them for. No thank you.

Excellent post Will :thumbup:
 
I'm not a flipper by any means but if a person buys or beats you to a knife and can sell it for more the he bought it for that's his thing. If he can sit all day while you are at work and buy them all up agian that's his thing if you are mad about it that's your problem not his. I get it I love the hobby but being upset cause you didn't win the race is lame. If I buy a gallon of milk and walk out the door and have a person offer me 3 times as much for it I'm selling it. If someone buying items they like and selling them for what people will pay for them bugs ya maybe this or these kinda hobbies arent for you because it happens in all of them
 
I'm not a flipper by any means but if a person buys or beats you to a knife and can sell it for more the he bought it for that's his thing. If he can sit all day while you are at work and buy them all up agian that's his thing if you are mad about it that's your problem not his. I get it I love the hobby but being upset cause you didn't win the race is lame. If I buy a gallon of milk and walk out the door and have a person offer me 3 times as much for it I'm selling it. If someone buying items they like and selling them for what people will pay for them bugs ya maybe this or these kinda hobbies arent for you because it happens in all of them

You don't buy milk with the same expectation. But it is a pretty limited item, so your example holds. :rolleyes:

Tell you what though, I've got a bottle of Gatorade if you're interested. Heck, I'll even cut you a deal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top