Flow & Design or Fit & Finish or Performance?

Good concept + good execution = good knife!

That’s the basic formula, which is subjective and is open to individual interpretation.

However, a good concept is one that is well thought out, has solid reasoning behind it and can be defended logically. Good execution is simply a relatively high level of success in manifesting the concept.
 
Kevin Jones said:
I too believe most experienced collectors have a very good grasp of the definition of these terms. Perhaps too good a grasp for some maker's liking. ;) :)
Click to expand...


Then let's hear your definitions and see if they work from an objective, universal, and historic perspective...

... I can bet the outcome will be either too vague,... or too specific for everyone to agree on.

... which is really how it should be... and probaly how it is anyway... :)

Open to interpretation!
 
Tai Goo said:
Then let's hear your definitions and see if they work from an objective, universal, and historic perspective...

... I can bet the outcome will be either too vague,... or too specific for everyone to agree on.
Click to expand...

There is no reason for everyone to agree on a definition. If everyone did, it would not meet your criteria for individualism. On the one hand, you ask for precise definitions (these can be found in any dictionary), yet on the other, you demand individualism.

I vote for individualism, which demands there be no universal definition, but the definition in the collector's eye - in EACH, individual's eye - is this what you mean, Kevin??
 
betzner said:
There is no reason for everyone to agree on a definition. If everyone did, it would not meet your criteria for individualism. On the one hand, you ask for precise definitions (these can be found in any dictionary), yet on the other, you demand individualism.

I vote for individualism, which demands there be no universal definition, but the definition in the collector's eye - in EACH, individual's eye - is this what you mean, Kevin??
Click to expand...


I know,... I'm playing both sides of the coin... :)
 
Here is, perhaps, my favorite definition of quality:

Quality has two dimensions: "must-be quality" and "attractive quality". The former is near to the "fitness for use" and the latter is what the customer would love, but has not yet thought about. Supporters characterize this model more succinctly as: "Products and services that meet or exceed customers' expectations".

You might just want to substitute the word "collector" wherever you see the word "customer".
 
Tai Goo said:
I know,... I'm playing both sides of the coin... :)
Click to expand...

Oh, playing a game, then? I thought this was supposed to be a real discussion of the issues that Kevin set out at the beginning of the thread, rather than a game. Why not contribute real thought to it, rather than play a game? Wouldn't it be better to offer contributions rather than contradictions?

Done here. Time to discuss the issues.
 
betzner said:
Oh, playing a game, then? I thought this was supposed to be a real discussion of the issues that Kevin set out at the beginning of the thread, rather than a game. Why not contribute real thought to it, rather than play a game?

Done here. Time to discuss the issues.
Click to expand...

I take the game seriously. :)
 
I'm a maker, but I still get to get away for a few minutes at the shows and see what other makers are doing. When I'm walking past a table, this is what I notice:

Flow and design, because it is what catches my eye first and causes me to pick the knife up and handle it.

If it feels good to the hand (balance included), I get a closer look at fit and finish.

I would hope that the maker has tested the knife for performance, otherwise whats the use of completing the knife in the first place.

All three are neccessary, IMO.

Lin
 
Im by no means the last word on knives but here is my .02
I try to design knives geared toward a certain task or tasks. Then I figure out what will make it perform the best at those tasks. Things like steel, blade shape, blade thickness, edge thickness, edge angle, grind height, handle material, and ergo's etc.
Then I try to make it flow, and be visually appealing as long as it doesnt detract from the original intent of the knife. If it doesnt make it better, stronger, faster, lighter (in that order;-) I dont care much about it. This is of course talking about working knives, nothing wrong with fancy materials, wood, dmascus, and cool stuff like that. Im just talking about the knives Im known for making mostly.
Fit and finish is extremely important to me, even though I dont do hand rubbed and polished finishes usually. I like a simple machine satin finish or bead blast to encourage the user to actually use the knife. I let it be known the knife can be refinished easily, and that makes them feel comfortable about scuffing up a fairly expensive knife.
That translates into guys talking about USING the knives, and that tranlslates into people buying knives. No better advertising than a guy talking about how well a knife performed for him.

This is my recipe, and it seems to be working. Some may disagree but Its the way I approach things;-)

Take care
Trace Rinaldi
www.THRblades.com
 
Trace Rinaldi said:
Im by no means the last word on knives but here is my .02
I try to design knives geared toward a certain task or tasks. Then I figure out what will make it perform the best at those tasks. Things like steel, blade shape, blade thickness, edge thickness, edge angle, grind height, handle material, and ergo's etc.
Then I try to make it flow, and be visually appealing as long as it doesnt detract from the original intent of the knife. If it doesnt make it better, stronger, faster, lighter (in that order;-) I dont care much about it. This is of course talking about working knives, nothing wrong with fancy materials, wood, dmascus, and cool stuff like that. Im just talking about the knives Im known for making mostly.
Fit and finish is extremely important to me, even though I dont do hand rubbed and polished finishes usually. I like a simple machine satin finish or bead blast to encourage the user to actually use the knife. I let it be known the knife can be refinished easily, and that makes them feel comfortable about scuffing up a fairly expensive knife.
That translates into guys talking about USING the knives, and that tranlslates into people buying knives. No better advertising than a guy talking about how well a knife performed for him.

This is my recipe, and it seems to be working. Some may disagree but Its the way I approach things;-)

Take care
Trace Rinaldi
www.THRblades.com
Click to expand...

Do you find that flow and design, fit and finish, and performance are somehow interconnected?

I do...
 
lwrhea said:
I'm a maker, but I still get to get away for a few minutes at the shows and see what other makers are doing. When I'm walking past a table, this is what I notice:

Flow and design, because it is what catches my eye first and causes me to pick the knife up and handle it.

If it feels good to the hand (balance included), I get a closer look at fit and finish.

I would hope that the maker has tested the knife for performance, otherwise whats the use of completing the knife in the first place.

All three are neccessary, IMO.

Lin
Click to expand...


Well I guess I'm in good company because that is my "process" in a nutshell! At my price point (low, comparatively) I'm hoping for a good balance of the three, although as Lin pointed out, if the design/flow doesn't speak to me, the other two qualities don't have a chance.

How do you know performance when looking at a knife? I know I'm beginning to know what steels I like (or don't) to a very limited degree. In a folder I know what locks I prefer, and I think there's assumptions I make about performance based on blade shape, grinds, and feel in the hand (which fall into design and F&F), but I get the impression that there is more implied here, and I would like to learn.

I will say that, looking at what I've got now, performance was at the top of my list. Of course, to a degree, performance requires good design and F&F, especially in folders, doesn't it?

As I spend more time here and at shows, I'm more willing to consider more "decorative" features in my knives. I would like to find a nice, small slipjoint with MOP scales and maybe some engraving as a "gentleman's knife". Previously I would not have considered anything that didn't lock, couldn't be opened one-handed, and wasn't much tougher than MOP!

Thanks for the education! Now, if you'd like to donate to the "Help Mike Afford What You've Taught Him To Appreciate" fund, just send me a PM!
 
betzner said:
There is no reason for everyone to agree on a definition. If everyone did, it would not meet your criteria for individualism. On the one hand, you ask for precise definitions (these can be found in any dictionary), yet on the other, you demand individualism.

I vote for individualism, which demands there be no universal definition, but the definition in the collector's eye - in EACH, individual's eye - is this what you mean, Kevin??
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I mean Bob. Each individual's definition comes from examining hundreds of knives by dozens of makers. These definitions become
more precise only as the knives come closer to being perfect examples.

Collectors can assess flow & design and fit & finish, however performance for collectible knives predominately lies in the reputation of the maker as Peter so correctly stated.

And perhaps the reason I'm place less importance on performance is that performance is a given for maker's knives I collect.

If a collector supports the makers that he/she knows and is familiar with their heat treat techniques and construction methods than more emphasis can be placed on flow & design and fit & finish. High performance knives are made in ALL price ranges.
 
lwrhea said:
I'm a maker, but I still get to get away for a few minutes at the shows and see what other makers are doing. When I'm walking past a table, this is what I notice:

Flow and design, because it is what catches my eye first and causes me to pick the knife up and handle it.

If it feels good to the hand (balance included), I get a closer look at fit and finish.

I would hope that the maker has tested the knife for performance, otherwise whats the use of completing the knife in the first place.

All three are neccessary, IMO.

Lin
Click to expand...
Lin,
I like what you said,and the way you said it.:thumbup: :cool:

Doug
 
I agree Lin, good post.

I hope most makers realize how important it is for them to check out other maker's knives. I know you Arkansas boys are always inspecting each other knives and that probably adds to you guy's great success.
 
Russ Andrews said:
I'll have to agree that performance is right at the top, and
that Fit, finish, and flow are secondary (but still very important),
But what about Feel..? Ever pick up a good looking piece,
and put it right back down because your hand just didn't
like it..?
Click to expand...

Totally agree, Russ.

There has to be a proper balance of the three areas being discussed. Then, there has to be a proper balance in the hand. If the 'feel' isn't there, the proper balance of the three areas is impaired.

It may have a terrific design. The fit & finish can be top notch. It may cut like hell. But, whether used or passed around, you have to have the right 'feel' when all is said and done.


- Joe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top