Folders illegal in NYC

[tom19176]

Noctis3880, I get the public protest idea, but what you recommend would allow several of the 30,000 NYPD patrolmen to meet their monthly summons number requirement quickly as NYC Admion Code 10-133 prohibits the open carry of any knife with a few very strict exceptions.

 

[TOM1960]

Noctis3880, I get the public protest idea, but what you recommend would allow several of the 30,000 NYPD patrolmen to meet their monthly summons number requirement quickly as NYC Admion Code 10-133 prohibits the open carry of any knife with a few very strict exceptions.

Public protests, as suggested by noctis3880, are a complete waste of time. Better to fight these ridiculous interpretations of knife laws through legal challenges. NYC's requirement that all knives be concealed may actually be an advantage. If everyone who carries a knife obeyed this law and perfected the fine art of concealment, knife arrests would be a small fraction of their current level. Out of sight, out of mind. Don't ask, don't tell.

 

[mnyshrpknvs]

You notice at the end of that story how Mr. Vance had to brag about how much money he was extorting from Americans...good for you:thumbdn:

I wouldn't expect any less from a Bloomberg run NY. Looks and sounds like a case of entrapment. :barf:

Of course, when you can buy your way into another term as Mayor, you can pretty much do anything else you want.

 

[davide]

The dangerous knife charge has to be arrived at by design of the knife for sole use as a weapon, and or the statements made by the person carrying it. An officer who is seeking to charge someone this way by making you state you carry the knife for "self defense", will ask you questions leading you to perhaps say a simple yes to a question asking if you carry it as a weapon. Becareful how you answer in NY. A knife is a tool, never a weapon in NY, or prepare to be cahrged.

I don't own any Cold Steel knives, but by the logic you laid out could their Solid Proof videos be used as evidence by prosecutors that their knives are intended as weapons? Wrapping a piece of meat in a jacket and stabbing it is awfully suggestive. Or is it the knife's design (not its marketing) that determines whether it is a weapon or not?

 

[tom19176]

davide, in the past it was mostly blade design ( tanto, bayonet, kriss, dagger blades), but sometime words on the blade such as "defender", "warrior" and the like have also been quoted to say the blade was a weapon by design. The Cold Steel video, could be viewed as a marketing item that clearly show the intent of certain knives to be used as weapons, but I have not heard of that being used against someone for possession. I could see them being an issue for a seller of that type of knife.

 

[Azimsdad]

I just visited Knifecenter's website and read the statement that they will not ship one hand openers to New York State. I live in Suffolk County, not part of NYC, but Knifecenter is now non-existent to me! I got lumped in with NYC. Bloomberg has been a "scourge" to this city. He and Vance are two excellent reasons to flee this "toilet"! I can hear Pennsylvania calling!!

 

[friedporkchop]

the best mayor in new yorks history was mayor la guardia. a little fellow who fought the government for outlawing a weed.. aka cannibis..they broke the mold when he was born..how does this moron get three terms when there is a two term limit...no cabiche/

 

[orork]

I'm not a bit surprised with this situation. Seems the govt wants the people to be without any physical means to protect themselves, by not having any weapon that do harm........
Screwdriver, Phillips head #2, 8" shaft, bolstered. <<<it's a deadly weapon by the law.

My dear departed dad was a copper......he told me, see if you can find an 8 pack of 16 ounce Coca Cola in BOTTLES, all full. Leave them in your car, on the front, passenger floor, always. No jury in the country is going to convict anyone of premeditation or going armed with soda bottles. Should the need arise, once you've shattered a full bottle over a perpetrators head, you are now armed with a weapon that is perfectly legal .......Ofcourse this must only be used in a dire, self defense scenario.

There are no more glass soda bottles populary available. Go figure.

I carry....period. tried by 12 or carried by 6? Screw registration and permits.

No amount of ordinance is too severe to protect me and mine.

 

[Kiss Me Deadly]

Well, I guess I won't be carrying my Dragonfly or Delica anymore...

Hell, I've already stopped carrying my D'fly in Jersey because of how many times I've been lectured on how "ALL knives are illegal PERIOD."

Which is kind of true with most LEO's mentality, I know.

Still, trying to speak law with anyone just leads to. "You're naive! The law doesn't matter, it doesn't matter that you use it for work, police see it as a weapon! You WILL be in jail!"

Which pisses me off immensely. Why is this part of the country essentially exempt from the constitution?

Oh well. I'm done. The only things I EDC these days are a Sharkie marker, a Midnite Manager 1.5" Victorinox slippie SAK, and I'm considering Inferno spray specifically for NYC. Of course, that requires finding a dealer in NYC due to the laws surrounding it... Have to buy it in NYC and sign the proper paperwork.

 

[ubuwalker31]

There is a lot of confusion about this topic. Possession of a knife is different than selling a knife...and the laws differ accordingly.

Switchblades, gravity knives, big knives, etc are not necessarily unlawful to carry concealed or open. In fact, NY State and NY City laws exempt otherwise "illegal knives" for use while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking, or if customary for one's occupation. I guess that means that I should keep my NY fishing license and a telescoping rod and reel in my briefcase.

However, NYC law explicitly outlaws the sale of lockable folding blades with blades of 4" or more (NYCAC §10–134). And sellers of box cutters may not place them on open display so that they are accessible without the assistance of the seller (NYCAC §10–134.1). This is why no one wants to ship knives here anymore.

All that said, I wouldn't carry a knife in NYC since the cops don't know how to interpret laws properly...they aren't lawyers and the goons who give them their marching orders interpret the law very loosely.

 

[tom19176]

ubuwalker as a fomer one of those "goons" section 265 of the Pl also prohibits sale if you read it. The exception for switchblades and gravity knives ( 265.20#6) is only for fishing/hunting/trapping and not other reasons. The law allows for open carry of legal knives while going to and from certain activites ( NYC Admin code), but it in no way allows for the carrying of "illegal" knives. The NYC DA is enforcing NYS Penal Law in his June press release, not the city Admin Code.

Your quote " There is a lot of confusion about this topic" is correct, and your post only added to that confusion.

 

[Rudeco]

thank god i live in Texas

 

[ubuwalker31]

Your quote " There is a lot of confusion about this topic" is correct, and your post only added to that confusion.

So, lets list what is illegal in NY State and NYC:
-Possess certain prohibited weapons, like a gravity knife or a switchblade knife.
-Possess a dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with unlawful intent against another. This intent is a rebuttable presumption, with the burden on the defendant.
-The sole exception to the above two rules is if you are hunting, fishing, or trapping with a valid license.
-There is also supposedly some case law out there that a knife greater than 6" might be de facto dangerous and illegal.
-Selling any dangerous or prohibited knife is illegal under state law.
-Manufacturing a switchblade or gravity knife is unlawful.
-Concealed or Open Carry of any legal knife is allowed in NY State, except in NYC.

If you are in NY City, it is illegal to:
-Possess a knife of four inches or more in a public place [NYC only]
-Open Carry any otherwise legal knife [NYC only]
-However, it is LEGAL to open carry a >4" blade or legal knife if it is a) otherwise legal under state law, and b) you are using/transporting it while hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, picnicking, or if customary for one's occupation.[NYC only]
-sell lockable folding blades with blades of 4" or more [NYC only]
-sell box cutters if they are on open display [NYC only]

So, NY laws are literally a catch-22: you can use and possess a dangerous or certain illegal knives for hunting or fishing....but you can't buy one in the state or in NY City. This is a violation not only of the second amendment, IMHO, but also of the dormant commerce clause.

The law allows for open carry of legal knives while going to and from certain activities ( NYC Admin code), but it in no way allows for the carrying of "illegal" knives..

Basically correct, but my point was the following. Lets assume you are in NYC fishing off of a pier. If you have a >4" blade, you are allowed open carry that blade. And if you have a 3.5" folder that could be deemed a gravity knife, that blade can be carried concealed or in the open, while fishing in NYC. So actually, my statement was correct...if confusing. An otherwise illegal knife can be concealed or carried openly, if it meets the definition.

The confusion stems from the huge catch-22 situation that the law creates.

Let me know if I got anything wrong here...but I think my statutory analysis is pretty good.

ubuwalker as a former one of those "goons"...

Thanks for your service! I wasn't trying to insult Police Officers, Police Chiefs or Politicians...but the enforcement of an arguably unconstitutional law is goonish in my book.

 

[tom19176]

This time I would say you have it correct. Your first statement was reading to say that an illegal knife could be caried under the conditions that are only stated in the NYC Admin code. The only other issues are any knife or article that is carried as a weapon is therefore illegal. A legal knife that is carried for self defense would then be illegal, just as a roll of quarters used to add power to a punch would equally be illegal if the person stated that is why he carried them. As to the possession of certain banned knives for fishing, hunting or trapping, you must remember that this law was passed before the federal law, and this was added to allow the several now illegal knives in the possession of the public to still be owned for sportsman reasons. I don't think the state law makers invisioned the tactical knives of today or the rebirth of switchblades. This was really a limited grandfather clause for certain uses. The wording does allow for possession of them in your house and clearly to and from those uses, and perhaps carry with your equipment at all times ( except NYC over 4"), but I am not recommending that.
The present day defintion that the courts have allowed for a gravity knife, would have been overturned back in the 60s since NY still had several pocket knife makers who could then no longer sell their porducts to the general public.

Finally as stated elsewhere, I am a knife user/collector/sportsman like everyone on this forum. When someone ask for legal advice I tend to say what could happen, not what will happen. Years ago no one was ever taken in for just a knife charge. In today's world of young officer who went to school's with zero tolerance policies and metal detectors at the doors, they feel all knives are weapons. Add to that the fact that weapons arrests are considered a good respond to certain spikes in crimes ( robbies/assualts), and that the transit division actively seeks out knife arrests, and you have a situation that leads there to be no safe knife to carry. Remember that even when you fall into the execption of allowable open carry a knife in NYC, the fact the knife is in plain view allows the officer to ask to see it so he can determine if it is a illegal knife. I often stop construction workers and say "your better off keeping it in your pocket" and I explain what I just stated. I have always got a warm thank you for telling them the "what if" side if the law.

As for me, when my son is out of college, I would love to move to NH where the real laws of this country are honored. It would be wonderful to see the wording of the NYS law changed to allow locking knives that can open smoothly with out making them illegal. There is no true blade lenght limit ( your 6" part), but as we all know the bigger the knife the more it will appear weapon like.

 

[DrOpPoInT1110]

i live about 10 mins out of manhattan and travel there at least once a week. i have to tighten the hell out of all my knives and can't carry a damn good portion of them even then. aside from almost completely restricting law abiding citizens' options, (as said many times before) this is textbook extortion and blackmail simply put into play to feed the DA's "rep" and manhattans lack of funding. they target knife shops because quite honestly, to the general public and non-knife people, knives are "bad" and they believe the BS stream that is fed to them by these egotistical morons. its not said in the article but we cant even have our knives clipped to a pocket anymore (or exposed in any way)..its: "malicious intent to the public". these laws are ridiculous, simple minded, and only restrict innocent civilians...laws don't matter to the guys who break them. thats the bottom line. these excuses of making NY safer are a cheap scapegoat.

 

[GingivitisKahn]

However, NYC law explicitly outlaws the sale of lockable folding blades with blades of 4" or more (NYCAC §10–134). And sellers of box cutters may not place them on open display so that they are accessible without the assistance of the seller (NYCAC §10–134.1). This is why no one wants to ship knives here anymore.

Well that and your DA extorts money from businesses like a lowlife thug.

 

[buckgen5]

i think all this knife law stuff is a bunch of crap. if a person gets stabbed they make knives illegal. have you heard of vehicular manslaughter? why aren't cars illegal? there is no bad knife or gun. only a person has the intent to be "bad." if they don't catch a person committing a crime with a knife then it can't rightfully be considered as a weapon seeing as there is no proof of it and you are innocent until proven guilty. and since when is it illegal to defend yourself? so what if you stab the armed gunman? it is your right to defend yourself whether it be against a criminal or the government. the constitution says if the government abolishes the rights of the people that the people have the right to abolish the government. tear it down and start over!
not to mention that just because they wear a badge it doesn't make them a good person. I'm not saying anything against police but, how do you know that cop that pulls you over is in the right mind. psychopaths can wear badges too, people who feel they can rape women because they wear a badge, i should be allowed to defend myself against such as well as anyone else should be able to. if they can carry a weapon then so can we. no double standards.

 

[Charlie Mike]

i think all this knife law stuff is a bunch of crap. if a person gets stabbed they make knives illegal. have you heard of vehicular manslaughter? why aren't cars illegal? there is no bad knife or gun. only a person has the intent to be "bad." if they don't catch a person committing a crime with a knife then it can't rightfully be considered as a weapon seeing as there is no proof of it and you are innocent until proven guilty. and since when is it illegal to defend yourself? so what if you stab the armed gunman? it is your right to defend yourself whether it be against a criminal or the government. the constitution says if the government abolishes the rights of the people that the people have the right to abolish the government. tear it down and start over!
not to mention that just because they wear a badge it doesn't make them a good person. I'm not saying anything against police but, how do you know that cop that pulls you over is in the right mind. psychopaths can wear badges too, people who feel they can rape women because they wear a badge, i should be allowed to defend myself against such as well as anyone else should be able to. if they can carry a weapon then so can we. no double standards.

I agree. Entirely. If "car laws" resembled knife laws, anything with a Cobra, AMG, Stallion, Rousch, etc would be legal to possess only as collector pieces that would be illegal to "carry" or drive in public. There would probably be limits on acceleration (0-60), horsepower at engine and/or wheels, hell... likely laws on how often you can drive your car or mileage taxes/limits under the guise of global warming prevention.:barf:

I bet felons would lose their right to own a car as well... No matter what felony.

www.threepercenter.org ... you should check it out.

 

[richard thurman]

i think all this knife law stuff is a bunch of crap. if a person gets stabbed they make knives illegal. have you heard of vehicular manslaughter? why aren't cars illegal? there is no bad knife or gun. only a person has the intent to be "bad." if they don't catch a person committing a crime with a knife then it can't rightfully be considered as a weapon seeing as there is no proof of it and you are innocent until proven guilty. and since when is it illegal to defend yourself? so what if you stab the armed gunman? it is your right to defend yourself whether it be against a criminal or the government. the constitution says if the government abolishes the rights of the people that the people have the right to abolish the government. tear it down and start over!
not to mention that just because they wear a badge it doesn't make them a good person. I'm not saying anything against police but, how do you know that cop that pulls you over is in the right mind. psychopaths can wear badges too, people who feel they can rape women because they wear a badge, i should be allowed to defend myself against such as well as anyone else should be able to. if they can carry a weapon then so can we. no double standards.

Hell I dont want to hear about it. I tried to be nice guy after getting out of the army and give a guy a ride home. I got stabbed 6 times. I am disabled for the rest of my life. guess what I do just for a little extra money so I can put food on the table?? I sell knives. everything that new york says is not allowed. the person stabbed me not the knife.

 

[Robert.B]

Hell I dont want to hear about it. I tried to be nice guy after getting out of the army and give a guy a ride home. I got stabbed 6 times. I am disabled for the rest of my life. guess what I do just for a little extra money so I can put food on the table?? I sell knives. everything that new york says is not allowed. the person stabbed me not the knife.

It's hard to read stuff like that happening to good people, hearing stories like that I will never give anyone a ride I dont know and trust.