Folders locking strength

NorthernSouthpaw said:
This has always been a bit of a silly topic to me.
Honestly, If you are using it properly you don't need anything stronger than a twist collar like Opinel uses.
For most day to day uses a slipjoint is more than enough. Hell, nothing wrong with a friction folder either.

It's like having a dive watch that is rated over 100 meters. Almost everyone won't need more, but it's just really cool to say it can.
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Keeping in mind that Opinel didn't have that locking collar until 1955, there just ain't a lot of three finger Frenchmen around. Amazing that the Opinel got the reputation as a working mans knife from 1890 to 1955 as a very simple friction folder. Like the Spanish Treramundi, the Sardinian Resolza, and other European 'penny knives."

You're right, Southpaw. Its a silly topic.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
This has always been a bit of a silly topic to me.
Honestly, If you are using it properly you don't need anything stronger than a twist collar like Opinel uses.
For most day to day uses a slipjoint is more than enough. Hell, nothing wrong with a friction folder either.

It's like having a dive watch that is rated over 100 meters. Almost everyone won't need more, but it's just really cool to say it can.
Click to expand...
Exactly this. Folding knives are cutting tools. If you absolutely must have a bomb proof knife you are going to need to get used to carrying a full tang fixed blade on your belt. Losing the ease of carry is the price you pay not to worry about a knife closing on you and a full slab of steel is always better than a pivot.
 
I have a lot to say on this, but basically I will take a reliable lock over a strong lock. I don't like axis style locks. They are very strong, until they aren't. I don't do prying or other stuff that requires incredible lock strength, and I still had both omega springs break on a Grip like 7-8 years ago. I've had one liner lock fail on me, and it was a POS CRKT M16-12Z. I'm picky on knives I buy, and buying quality usually equals reliability, but not always.

Of my collection, if I'm going to do something stupid that requires lock strength, it would be my Manix 2 with CBBL.
 
Strength is only one feature of a lock. Another is, how difficult is it to unlock.

I'm an outlier in that although I love most of my Cold Steel knives, I'm not a big fan of the Triad lock. The reason is, the one I have sticks and I have to wrangle with it to unstick it. That's not something I'd want to have to deal with if I was opening and closing my knife all day at work. I've seen others complain about the same issue, so I know it's not a fluke.

The Cold Steel knives that I LOVE all have liner locks. And if the Cold Steel "Proof" videos are to be believed, their liner locks are pretty strong.

But I don't regard a lock on a folding knife to be a safety feature. I simply consider it the means by which the knife stays open. On a slipjoint it's the backspring that keeps the blade open, on a locking folder it's the lock.
 
Oh yes, K.O.D. K.O.D. the CBBL is fantastic! Reliable, easy to operate, and strong. I agree a reliable lock is preferable to a strong lock, and it also has to be easy to operate. This is why I like liner locks. When made properly, they are simple, reliable, easy to operate, and strong.
 
David Mary said:
Oh yes, K.O.D. K.O.D. the CBBL is fantastic! Reliable, easy to operate, and strong. I agree a reliable lock is preferable to a strong lock, and it also has to be easy to operate. This is why I like liner locks. When made properly, they are simple, reliable, easy to operate, and strong.
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Exactly. Liner locks are fine if made by a quality company and you aren't, again, doing something stupid to put repeated excessive force on the bar, which will result in failure of nearly any lock.
 
Lock strength is and always has been a bit of an arbitrary distinction about a knifes perceived toughness. Cold steel loves to put out meaningless videos for marketing purposes testing their locks in ways that have absolutely nothing to do with a lock’s strength within the realm of real world application. Unless a knife is already damaged, the blade tang, hardware, or scales are likely to fail before or in conjunction with the lock on any commonly used locking mechanism. IMO people are more likely to disengage a lock accidentally than actually have it fail on them. I tend to stray away from locks that have the disengagement method protruding out from the scales/handles (button, shark, some axis type locks, etc), as to avoid pressing or pulling it if I change hand positions while cutting.
 
Forgive the PSA but here are two of the general rules for knife safety:

- Treat all folding knives as if they are just that: knives that fold.

- Any activity that would test the strength of a lock is not a job for a folding knife in the first place.

That said, there can be emergencies where you really need to cut something outside of the safe range and don't have any other tool within anything close to a reasonable distance. You've got to do what you've got to do. A stronger lock could be better. Still, be careful. Serious damage to fingers, tendons, etc. can literally change your life forever.

Heavy or abrupt spine pressure is likely in circumstances such as something falling hard on the blade during cutting, you slipping backwards while cutting in a fixed enclosure, and situations where you are applying tremendous force to what you are cutting (a.k.a. too much force for a folder). Again, be mindful. Look at what you are doing before you do it. Think about what you are doing before you do it.

BTW, "tactical folder" is an oxymoron. Folding knives are generally terrible as defensive tools across a significant portion of the spectrum of possible defensive encounters. Yes, there are situations in which they might be helpful but the opposite is more likely and often when seconds count. Seriously, if you aren't able to carry a gun or a fixed blade, please find a local gym and work on your empty-handed skills instead of positioning what could be a dangerous time sink, distraction, or risk multiplier into your defensive training. (For anyone who doesn't believe me, get an appropriate folding trainer, carry it how you carry your real folder, go to the gym or wherever and have a friend aggressively tackle you from different angles, grapple hard with you, etc. under your best approximation of surprise. Put some colored wax on the blunted blade and wear a contrasting color. Then you'll be able to track failure, wasted time or attention, and self-injury.)
 
Artisan Proponent....huge liner lock, has a hole in the handle where you screw in a pin to lock the blade solidly. Thats about as strong as it gets.....
MEE8RSt.jpg
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As others have said, back lock ftw. Special nod to the Demko tri-ad lock. Most of my knives are back locks.

I've never had a lock fail (as in knife close on my hand) but I did bend a liner lock quite bad. I want to say it was a CRKT or Gerber maybe 20 years ago.

Liner locks are admittedly not my favorite. The only one I carry now is a ZT 350 but that is beefy compared to most.
 
Arathol said:
Artisan Proponent....huge liner lock, has a hole in the handle where you screw in a pin to lock the blade solidly. Thats about as strong as it gets.....
MEE8RSt.jpg
wjzhTas.jpg
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Reminds me of the 4 Max that was originally built with the hole in it to stick a pin in so as not to get the boss of CS hurt with it on his hunt in Africa. I believe ER also makes a folder with the pin hole locking system is used.
 
killgar said:
Strength is only one feature of a lock. Another is, how difficult is it to unlock.

I'm an outlier in that although I love most of my Cold Steel knives, I'm not a big fan of the Triad lock. The reason is, the one I have sticks and I have to wrangle with it to unstick it. That's not something I'd want to have to deal with if I was opening and closing my knife all day at work. I've seen others complain about the same issue, so I know it's not a fluke.

The Cold Steel knives that I LOVE all have liner locks. And if the Cold Steel "Proof" videos are to be believed, their liner locks are pretty strong.

But I don't regard a lock on a folding knife to be a safety feature. I simply consider it the means by which the knife stays open. On a slipjoint it's the backspring that keeps the blade open, on a locking folder it's the lock.
Click to expand...
TriAd locks are stiff at first, but smooth out over time in my experience (American Lawman). A drop of BreakFree CLP helps.
 
The CRKT m-16 line has an axillary lock that seems to really hold it rigis. The M-16, M-18 and m-21 all have this "LAWKS" system. However, it does make it a bit less convenient to close though.
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
This has always been a bit of a silly topic to me.
Honestly, If you are using it properly you don't need anything stronger than a twist collar like Opinel uses.
Click to expand...
And even on top of that, you don't need a lock at all. I grew up like some here carrying a knife even when I was just a little boy. Yessir, I did indeed manage to close my pocket knife on my fingers a couple of times. But growing up at a time when there were no locks on knives that were mass-produced in the early sixties, I've learned like all the generations before me.

Use your knife as a cutting tool, and that's it. Go get the right tool for any other activities.

But it seems most folks these days think the lock itself is part of the knife and it's operation. I see it as a safety device like like a safety on my gun. It's there to help protect me, but it is my job to be responsible and use it correctly and not rely on the safety.

Somewhere along the way that message got changed and it seems that people rely a tremendous amount on the locking devices of their knives. I'm still back to 1961 when I gave myself a scar I have today from closing my boy scout knife on my 5-year-old fingers. I never really trust a knife for anything other than slicing.
 
I've never worried about lock strength from any reputable manufacturer. I'm usually more interested in the design of the handle and the blade steel. But then again, I usually just cut things and have never been at risk of the lock failing on me.
 
Chronovore said:
Forgive the PSA but here are two of the general rules for knife safety:

- Treat all folding knives as if they are just that: knives that fold.

- Any activity that would test the strength of a lock is not a job for a folding knife in the first place.

That said, there can be emergencies where you really need to cut something outside of the safe range and don't have any other tool within anything close to a reasonable distance. You've got to do what you've got to do. A stronger lock could be better. Still, be careful. Serious damage to fingers, tendons, etc. can literally change your life forever.

Heavy or abrupt spine pressure is likely in circumstances such as something falling hard on the blade during cutting, you slipping backwards while cutting in a fixed enclosure, and situations where you are applying tremendous force to what you are cutting (a.k.a. too much force for a folder). Again, be mindful. Look at what you are doing before you do it. Think about what you are doing before you do it.

BTW, "tactical folder" is an oxymoron. Folding knives are generally terrible as defensive tools across a significant portion of the spectrum of possible defensive encounters. Yes, there are situations in which they might be helpful but the opposite is more likely and often when seconds count. Seriously, if you aren't able to carry a gun or a fixed blade, please find a local gym and work on your empty-handed skills instead of positioning what could be a dangerous time sink, distraction, or risk multiplier into your defensive training. (For anyone who doesn't believe me, get an appropriate folding trainer, carry it how you carry your real folder, go to the gym or wherever and have a friend aggressively tackle you from different angles, grapple hard with you, etc. under your best approximation of surprise. Put some colored wax on the blunted blade and wear a contrasting color. Then you'll be able to track failure, wasted time or attention, and self-injury.)
Click to expand...

This many times over! :thumbsup:
 
Folders are just so much easier and more convenient to carry routinely / EDC .

I have enough trust built up, from years of hard use (and even throwing) the Cold Steel Tri-ad lock knives , that I feel confident they can accomplish almost anything a comparable sized fixed blade can perform .

I still carry fixed for specific tasks , and keep several in my SUV "get home" bag .
 
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