Folders locking strength

c7m2p3 said:
In general I would say: Anything made by Andrew Demko > Standard backlocks > Axis style locks > Well made frame lock > Compression lock > liner lock
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I pretty much agree to this ordered list, except that maybe I'd switch the position of Well made frame lock and Compression lock.
 
sharp_edge said:
I pretty much agree to this ordered list, except that maybe I'd switch the position of Well made frame lock and Compression lock.
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Ya I could be persuaded either way on those two I guess the real cutoff is the definition of "well made" which is subjective. My main point being that very little of this should come into play and personally I will choose reliability and convenience of use over the outright strength of the lock
 
RugerNurse said:
What are peoples impressions of the strongest locking type on a folder? Has anyone ever broken one (without doing something they shouldn’t have)?
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I have never broken a lock and I've gone out of my way to use a folder like a fixed blade, just for curiosity. I've found the pivot screws working loose or stripping to be far more of a problem than the locks themselves. Even batoning with folders, which I do regularly now for kindling and fire starting stuff, doesn't cause much trouble on the folder. Often, the small stuff I baton can be split using my palm as the baton. No need to use a log to smack the knife with, even if that's a fixed blade.

I've batoned sliojoints as well, not a problem unless it gets stuck.

Some people think this is stupid or abuse to a knife. I'm not going to disagree at all. But, they can do that work reliably. My testing with folders has really given me appreciation for how much work can be done simply with a SAK and knowing different ways to use it.

My perspective is this, regardless of the tool you choose, know your tool, what it can do, what it can do well, and what you can do with it. You should use a small folder different than large fixed blade but you can certainly do a lot of the same work with either.
 
bikerector said:
I have never broken a lock and I've gone out of my way to use a folder like a fixed blade, just for curiosity. I've found the pivot screws working loose or stripping to be far more of a problem than the locks themselves. Even batoning with folders, which I do regularly now for kindling and fire starting stuff, doesn't cause much trouble on the folder. Often, the small stuff I baton can be split using my palm as the baton. No need to use a log to smack the knife with, even if that's a fixed blade.

I've batoned sliojoints as well, not a problem unless it gets stuck.

Some people think this is stupid or abuse to a knife. I'm not going to disagree at all. But, they can do that work reliably. My testing with folders has really given me appreciation for how much work can be done simply with a SAK and knowing different ways to use it.

My perspective is this, regardless of the tool you choose, know your tool, what it can do, what it can do well, and what you can do with it. You should use a small folder different than large fixed blade but you can certainly do a lot of the same work with either.
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I should add that a strong stop pin is good to look for if you are after a strong lock since that's what takes most of the forces from using a knife like a knife, even when batoning. In the case of slipjoints and backlocks, the spring/bar keeps the blade from folding backwards.

The pivot is still the weakest spot in all of my experiences "hard" using folders. Fixed blades don't have that problem but well-made folding knives stay together surprsingly well too.
 
bikerector said:
I have never broken a lock and I've gone out of my way to use a folder like a fixed blade, just for curiosity. I've found the pivot screws working loose or stripping to be far more of a problem than the locks themselves. Even batoning with folders, which I do regularly now for kindling and fire starting stuff, doesn't cause much trouble on the folder. Often, the small stuff I baton can be split using my palm as the baton. No need to use a log to smack the knife with, even if that's a fixed blade.

I've batoned sliojoints as well, not a problem unless it gets stuck.

Some people think this is stupid or abuse to a knife. I'm not going to disagree at all. But, they can do that work reliably. My testing with folders has really given me appreciation for how much work can be done simply with a SAK and knowing different ways to use it.

My perspective is this, regardless of the tool you choose, know your tool, what it can do, what it can do well, and what you can do with it. You should use a small folder different than large fixed blade but you can certainly do a lot of the same work with either.
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I agree. But I'd go a step further and say that I don't consider the actions you've described as "stupid" or "abuse".

I own two types of knives- users, and treasures. For the purpose of this post I'm referring to my users.

To me a knife is a tool. A sharpened piece of steel with a handle attached. And as such I believe that if a knife is capable of performing a task effectively, without suffering catastrophic damage, and without causing harm to the user, then it was the right tool for the job. Or at least, a good enough tool at the moment to get the job done.

People often say "Choose the right tool for the job", but how many people carry a tool box full of tools everywhere they go. That's one of the great things about a knife- it's versatility. A knife can handle a wide variety of tasks, including things other that cutting.

If some people want to follow a set of rules that say "A knife must only be used like this, and must never be used like that", that's certainly their prerogative, their knife, their choice. But I don't follow other peoples knife rules. If I think a knife can handle a task, I use it. After all, my users are not sacred artifacts, they aren't precious, irreplaceable family antiquities.

In my adult life I have used knives in several ways that many here would likely consider "abuse", even "foolish", but I've never broken one, never caused harm to myself, and I still have those knives, which remain just as useful today as the day I bought them.

On an unrelated note to all that, and back onto the specific topic of locks on folding knives, I can't help but sometimes get the impression that there are people on this forum who are outright contemptuous of locks on folders, as if locks were a bad thing, something to be scorned. I get the impression that some people think if you choose something other than a slipjoint, and prefer locking folders, that it means you don't know how to use a folding knife properly, that you don't know which direction to cut in. I don't get that. But hey, it takes all kinds. To each their own.
 
killgar said:
I agree. But I'd go a step further and say that I don't consider the actions you've described as "stupid" or "abuse".

I own two types of knives- users, and treasures. For the purpose of this post I'm referring to my users.

To me a knife is a tool. A sharpened piece of steel with a handle attached. And as such I believe that if a knife is capable of performing a task effectively, without suffering catastrophic damage, and without causing harm to the user, then it was the right tool for the job. Or at least, a good enough tool at the moment to get the job done.

People often say "Choose the right tool for the job", but how many people carry a tool box full of tools everywhere they go. That's one of the great things about a knife- it's versatility. A knife can handle a wide variety of tasks, including things other that cutting.

If some people want to follow a set of rules that say "A knife must only be used like this, and must never be used like that", that's certainly their prerogative, their knife, their choice. But I don't follow other peoples knife rules. If I think a knife can handle a task, I use it. After all, my users are not sacred artifacts, they aren't precious, irreplaceable family antiquities.

In my adult life I have used knives in several ways that many here would likely consider "abuse", even "foolish", but I've never broken one, never caused harm to myself, and I still have those knives, which remain just as useful today as the day I bought them.

On an unrelated note to all that, and back onto the specific topic of locks on folding knives, I can't help but sometimes get the impression that there are people on this forum who are outright contemptuous of locks on folders, as if locks were a bad thing, something to be scorned. I get the impression that some people think if you choose something other than a slipjoint, and prefer locking folders, that it means you don't know how to use a folding knife properly, that you don't know which direction to cut in. I don't get that. But hey, it takes all kinds. To each their own.
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Yeah there is certainly a contingent that will always say unless you are cutting soft material, you are using a knife 'wrong' and I certainly don't fall into that camp. I have definitely used my knife for a host of things that are not just cutting soft material away from my body or on a cutting board....if that is the only thing I used knives for there would be very little reason to have one in my pocket because in those situations im almost always in a kitchen or at home.

That being said, there is also a contingent on the other end of the spectrum that wants to grab a folding knife, stab it into a tree, and use it as a step. Or break up concrete with the pommel. Or baton through a full tree trunk. Imo that is just as foolish as those that myopically say that the only legitimate use for a pocket knife is cutting soft chicken on a cutting board. These are not tasks that are safe to do with folding knives and trying to find a knife lock that can do these things safely is setting up a false sense of security no matter how strong the lock is.

For that second group, there is too much confidence being placed in what amounts to a safety feature. If you want a safety on your defensive pistol for example, that is your prerogative. But whether the pistol has a safety or not, you shouldn't hold the muzzle to your groin and start finger banging the trigger. Thats just dumb. And if there are people out there looking for THE STRONGEST KNIFE LOCK SO I CAN STAB AN ASSAILANT THROUGH A CAR DOOR AND THEN THROUGH HIS KEVLAR VEST than I am going to continue to give them the same advice and say, that is not the intent of a folding pocket knife.
 
What about button locks, like on Civivis? I’m not going to be doing anything like prying or screwing in screws but I’m always paranoid about it breaks cutting hard wood or something. I usually have a small fixed blade on me for that.
 
RugerNurse said:
What about button locks, like on Civivis? I’m not going to be doing anything like prying or screwing in screws but I’m always paranoid about it breaks cutting hard wood or something. I usually have a small fixed blade on me for that.
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Button locks, or plunge locks, tend to be quite strong. My experiences using them is they can be prone to lock stick if you've been a bit rough with it, but it still locks up tight. I was particularly mean to a hogue button lock.
 
bikerector said:
I have never broken a lock and I've gone out of my way to use a folder like a fixed blade, just for curiosity. I've found the pivot screws working loose or stripping to be far more of a problem than the locks themselves. Even batoning with folders, which I do regularly now for kindling and fire starting stuff, doesn't cause much trouble on the folder. Often, the small stuff I baton can be split using my palm as the baton. No need to use a log to smack the knife with, even if that's a fixed blade.

I've batoned sliojoints as well, not a problem unless it gets stuck.

Some people think this is stupid or abuse to a knife. I'm not going to disagree at all. But, they can do that work reliably. My testing with folders has really given me appreciation for how much work can be done simply with a SAK and knowing different ways to use it.

My perspective is this, regardless of the tool you choose, know your tool, what it can do, what it can do well, and what you can do with it. You should use a small folder different than large fixed blade but you can certainly do a lot of the same work with either.
Click to expand...

I've batoned with a couple of cheap liner locks for similar reasons. I was careful and wore gloves, but I also pushed the envelope a little on how much batoning they got. The locks didn't fail. However, there was deformation that affected the lock interface. In both cases, the liner slowly migrated towards 100% lock-up and developed severe lock-stick.

They were still usable. The action was fine. They locked up fairly well. It just took serious effort to unlock them.
 
Greggy said:
Easy for you to say. Wait until you need to pierce the tires on your ex-girlfriend's car. Nothing less than a Tri-Ad lock will do.
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Hmph! shows what you know. I found a screwdriver worked just fine for that. No way I'm going to mar the blade of something that is actually precious to me for that bitch!
 
RugerNurse said:
Is it easy to operate? It looks small. I’m curious about the lightweight para 3
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Its pretty easy to operate. It is not without its flaws of course. The cutout is harder to get to if you are left handed, wearing thick gloves may pose a problem, and keeping a grip on the knife depending on hand size/model/scale slickness may present a problem for some folks. That being said, the first two concerns are almost equally viable for liner or frame locks. And the last concern is also something to keep in mind for a host of other "free swinging" locks that allow you to release and flick open the blade.
 
c7m2p3 said:
Its pretty easy to operate. It is not without its flaws of course. The cutout is harder to get to if you are left handed, wearing thick gloves may pose a problem, and keeping a grip on the knife depending on hand size/model/scale slickness may present a problem for some folks. That being said, the first two concerns are almost equally viable for liner or frame locks. And the last concern is also something to keep in mind for a host of other "free swinging" locks that allow you to release and flick open the blade.
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The other thing I don’t care for is choils. Which the para 3 seems to make you use
 
RugerNurse said:
The other thing I don’t care for is choils. Which the para 3 seems to make you use
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Well that is certainly present on most of the Spyderco lineup. If you are looking to get into a compression lock without a prominent choil check out the kapara. The choil is still there by very slight by comparison with no jimping and plenty of handle and cutting edge if you want to just ignore the choil altogether.
 
The topic of strongest locks is entertaining to read but it is purely academic for me. I gravitate towards smaller knives and to be honest my cutting chores are pretty light duty so a super strong lock is not needed. I carried a slipjoint for several years and they didn't even have a lock so I guess that speaks volumes about my daily cutting needs.
 
c7m2p3 said:
Well that is certainly present on most of the Spyderco lineup. If you are looking to get into a compression lock without a prominent choil check out the kapara. The choil is still there by very slight by comparison with no jimping and plenty of handle and cutting edge if you want to just ignore the choil altogether.
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Maybe I should try the delica again. I sold it stupidly. The back lock is pretty strong. Just not the easiest to close one handed
 
DavidABQ said:
The topic of strongest locks is entertaining to read but it is purely academic for me. I gravitate towards smaller knives and to be honest my cutting chores are pretty light duty so a super strong lock is not needed. I carried a slipjoint for several years and they didn't even have a lock so I guess that speaks volumes about my daily cutting needs.
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I was mostly curious as I’m new to knives in general lol
 
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