For all of you Electro-magicians

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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Joined
Jan 6, 2005
Messages
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I want to plug in this...
240 volt, 30 amp, 4 Wire
images


and end up with this on the other end...
240 volt, 20 amp, 3 pronged
images


In a nutshell... we have just moved across 4 Provinces into a rental house and I want to plug my kiln into the dryer outlet.

The electrical planel has no available spaces and is not marked at all.:grumpy:
 
Nope... I want to plug a 240v, 11amp kiln into a 240v, 30amp circuit that was meant for a dryer.
 
You can make an adapter cable by buying components at Lowes, but if it were me I'd cut the cord on your oven and install a plug that fits the outlet you plan to use. You can buy these at Lowes around here, I'm not sure about up by you.
 
Rick Marchand said:
I want to plug in this...
240 volt, 30 amp, 4 Wire
images


and end up with this on the other end...
240 volt, 20 amp, 3 pronged
images


In a nutshell... we have just moved across 4 Provinces into a rental house and I want to plug my kiln into the dryer outlet.

The electrical panel has no available spaces and is not marked at all.:grumpy:
Click to expand...

This kiln?
http://www.sugarcreekind.com/big-knife-kiln-p-2809.html

This confused me for a long time, why one verson of 220v has 3 wires and another has 4
Some time with a meter and I figured it out.

Take what I give you and verify it for yourself.


Meter your dryer plug
Flat to flat =220vac
flat of each side to L = 120vac

voltagesfromthedryerplug.jpg



220v needs 2x hots, usually red and black with a green ground.

The Dryer uses 220vac for the heating coils, but 110v for the motor.
So to get that 110vac , they need a neutral wire(white) to go between a hot and a neutral


The round pins are green ground
The flat blades are hot black and red
On the dryer plug, the L shaped blade is the neutral white

Whether you create a pigtail, or just install a new plug on your kiln:

Connect:
Flat blade, to flat blade,
Red and black, hots are interchangeable in this case, no worries about mixing them up.

Round ground pin to round ground pin

Skip connecting to the L neutral


ricksdryertokiln.jpg


Is that clear enough ?

Is the kiln in the same room as this dryer plug?
If this some distance away we have to think about wire gauge thickness.
 
Last edited:
You could also get a dryer replacement cord from the hardware or home center and simply replace the cord on your kiln, that way you won't need to cut the existing cord and could someday reuse the original cord. Simply put a wire nut on the neutral wire within the kiln and connect the other three as mentioned.
 
numbers brings up a good point. Is there a 120 circuit in this things such as the controller? If so, you may need a neutral for it. That can still be done a couple different ways, one of them safe, but none of them to code.

You need to look inside your oven and see what the controler needs.
 
woodwrkr221 said:
You could also get a dryer replacement cord from the hardware or home center and simply replace the cord on your kiln, that way you won't need to cut the existing cord and could someday reuse the original cord. Simply put a wire nut on the neutral wire within the kiln and connect the other three as mentioned.
Click to expand...

That's true, you can get a moulded cord and plug cheaper than just a plug
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/dryer-cord-kit/947834
 
Nathan... I want to run my kiln without having to add circuits to the panel. I figured if I could somehow run an adapter from the dryer plug, my dilema is solved. I don't want to render the oven or dryer useless in the process. This isn't my house. I just want to unplug one and plug in the other.

I like woodwrkr's idea of replacing the cord on my kiln, if that is a viable solution.

Count... what do you think of the above idea? Also... it would be great if I could get a 50ft extension for it, but I know that is pushing it.


My kiln draws 11amps
 
Rick Marchand said:
Nathan... I want to run my kiln without having to add circuits to the panel. I figured if I could somehow run an adapter from the dryer plug, my dilema is solved. I don't want to render the oven or dryer useless in the process. This isn't my house. I just want to unplug one and plug in the other.

I like woodwrkr's idea of replacing the cord on my kiln, if that is a viable solution.

Count... what do you think of the above idea? Also... it would be great if I could get a 50ft extension for it, but I know that is pushing it.


My kiln draws 11amps
Click to expand...

I replied above, probably while you were typing
I like the idea of changing the cord on the kiln, simpler and cheaper than finding a plug

Having the extension changes things as you won't find a pre-moulded cord with that plug on.
As for extension cord.
electrical code allows for the same conductor size in runs from the box up to a certain length, 50 feet is fine.
(verify that for your own peace of mind)

You can get this book in home Depot
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41w4b+7RcJL._SL500_.jpg


Especially if you go up in size and use a cord good for the 30 amps you are good.
assuming proper sizing and not Chinese wire gauge size shrinkage

14 gauge is good for runs up to 50 feet at 15 amps.

If you go up to 12, or even 10 gauge, should be no problems at all and plenty of peace of mind.


I'd have a look at 30 amp RV extension cords as the cheapest way to buy wire
You will probably have to change the plugs so the simplest would be to put a dryer plug on one end and wire into the kiln directly

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8058299/12-Gauge/50-ft-12/3-Industrial-Extension-Cord
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8193245/Rv-Cords/50-ft-RV-Extension-Cord
 
Is that clear?


I would buy this cord
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8193245/Rv-Cords/50-ft-RV-Extension-Cord

It has RV type special ends but it's the cheapest way to buy that stranded wire and nice insulation.


and put a plug on
Go to a proper electrical supplier and get the right plug - the hardware stores only have the short premade oven cord.
Yes, it's 14-30P
http://www.levitonproducts.com/catalog/model_275-T.htm

or


I would buy this cord
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8193245/Rv-Cords/50-ft-RV-Extension-Cord

This plug with cord
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/electr...re-black-dryer-cord-aw20009.html#.UJGMNKBv9uA

and
then a box like this
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/1b/1bdeb265-f246-4760-91af-6cfa8737a01e_300.jpg
http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/48/48e3c7e0-0390-45b7-84df-a9eab8fd351b_300.jpg


and make the connection in the box, perfectly valid way to do it.
 
Last edited:
Rick,

I just made an extension cord similar to the one you need. Mine was for a 14-30P to a 6-15R so you would need a different receptical for your 20A plug. I used stranded 3-12 copper wire cut from a roll and hooked it up as the count suggested. Everything was available from Best Hardware although they had to order the 14-30P. The 14-30P had the parts available to configure it as a 14-50P if necessary. You can get unstranded 3-12 or 3-10 wire but that stuff is really stiff.
 
Definitely cheaper/easier to re-wire it than to build an adapter. That said, I built the dryer-to-L6-30 adapter. It allows me to use whichever outlet is available for my welder, spot welder, plasma cutter(no longer have), 240VAC 15 gallon boiler, etc. Just about every house has the dryer outlet, but the others are all a hodge-podge and you never know what you'll get.
 
Rick, electrically the grounded and grounding conductors are the same - however the new codes have required a four wire plug that makes them mechanically separate and the have changed the designs internally slightly to minimize the shock risk. If you use a 10 gauge conductor - thumbs up on an RV or marine shore power cable good for 30 amps you should have no problems at all - I would definitely recommend using high quality materials (cord caps) to make this especially if you are going to run this outside - I would hit up a local electrical supply house rather than a big box store - good luck!
 
Bo T said:
Rick,

I just made an extension cord similar to the one you need. Mine was for a 14-30P to a 6-15R so you would need a different receptical for your 20A plug. I used stranded 3-12 copper wire cut from a roll and hooked it up as the count suggested. Everything was available from Best Hardware although they had to order the 14-30P. The 14-30P had the parts available to configure it as a 14-50P if necessary. You can get unstranded 3-12 or 3-10 wire but that stuff is really stiff.
Click to expand...

You're not supposed to use romex type stuff for extension cords, they're supposed to be stranded etc. But I do sometimes, though you need to exercise some common sense...





Y'all, I haven't noticed anyone address the neutral issue. If the oven is using the neutral for a 120 circuit, and the dryer plug is lacking a neutral, there is a problem here. There are a couple solutions to that, but they're not pretty. If you use ground for neutral you will go to hell.


Nate (drinking beer, eating collard greens, exploring my inner bumpkin)
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
You're not supposed to use romex type stuff for extension cords, they're supposed to be stranded etc. But I do sometimes, though you need to exercise some common sense...

Y'all, I haven't noticed anyone address the neutral issue.
If the oven is using the neutral for a 120 circuit, and the dryer plug is lacking a neutral, there is a problem here.
There are a couple solutions to that, but they're not pretty. If you use ground for neutral you will go to hell.


Nate (drinking beer, eating collard greens, exploring my inner bumpkin)
Click to expand...

I think it's a Sugar Creek Kiln

It's possible that they used a PID with a 220VAC input power supply
but they don't post any schematics like Paragon and Evenheat do.
 
12345678910 said:
I think it's a Sugar Creek Kiln

It's possible that they used a PID with a 220VAC input power supply
but they don't post any schematics like Paragon and Evenheat do.
Click to expand...
I have schematics and will look into it... you guys are awesome!!!!
 
Hi Rick, glad to see you got moved safely and are getting set up. Shoot me an email sometime with your new address when you find some down time. Paul
 
Rick, I didnt have the same issue but I did have an outlet I wanted to use and no way to plug my items in it, what I did was use a plug that fit the the outlet and wired it to a pony panel with the proper circuit breakers in it. This allowed me to plug in the items I wanted and still use the outlet when I needed to. Have you thought about changing out the outlet itself? Shut off the fuse or breaker and rewiring it? Did you finally make it down here by the way?
 
Will do, Paul:thumbup:

Okay guys the plot thickens.....

The garage has (2) separate 120v, 15amp circuits in it. One for the garage door opener and one for the lights. There is a 240v 2pole 30amp service coming from the house to the garage(at least I think it is). Is there anything I can do with this to run my kiln(240v, 11amp and still have a 15amp 120v circuit?

Let me get some pictures of it
 
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