For all of you Electro-magicians

Odog27 said:
Moleng1 you might reread my first post.
Click to expand...

I did read it, but I disagree that it is ok to wire it in this way. Unless the OP is going to unplug the kiln whenever it is not in use, and babysit it the entire time it is in use, it's a dangerous and illegal way to go. I agree that chances of anything happening are slim and fuck all, but almost everything in this world that goes wrong has very high odds of not happening.
 
12345678910 said:
So to simplify again

Be sure the wire feeding that subpanel is 10 gauge

Then reconfigure that subpanel with the breakers you need.
220v 10 a
110v 15 a


It looks old, I bet it's easier to buy a new little sub panel box and breakers than to find ones that fit the old one.
Click to expand...

220v, 10amp? my kiln draws 11amp
 
In the states and it is not to code here either. I can tell you still did not read my first post. Actually some breaker are listed for two wires under one screw.
 
Moleng1 said:
I did read it, but I disagree that it is ok to wire it in this way. Unless the OP is going to unplug the kiln whenever it is not in use, and babysit it the entire time it is in use, it's a dangerous and illegal way to go. I agree that chances of anything happening are slim and fuck all, but almost everything in this world that goes wrong has very high odds of not happening.
Click to expand...
I always unplug my kiln when not in use.... but I do want to be legal and safe. What would you suggest I do? Go with reconfiguring the garage panel to (1)120v, 15a and (1)240v, 15a?
 
To code - get a squareD 100 amp QO 8 space panel($37.00) to replace existing panel. Then you can reuse existing breakers in new panel. Also get a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. Then do what I said in my second post. 4x4 box, outlet, cover...... Only this time don't double up. Just come off your new 2 pole 20 amp breaker.
 
Okay 240v, 15a receptacles are rare.... would a 240v, 20a be okay... I am only pulling 11a from it?
 
You can basically run another 220 in parallel to the dryer circuit, in the same way you run 220 heaters in parallel. The only difference is you will run the wires out of the dryer (2 hot and the ground) through a single 15 amp breaker and then into the correct plug in for your kiln. You can do the work your self, but pay an extra $20 to have an electrician look at the install and approve it. Well worth the money.
 
Odog27 said:
To code - get a squareD 100 amp QO 8 space panel($37.00) to replace existing panel. Then you can reuse existing breakers in new panel. Also get a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. Then do what I said in my second post. 4x4 box, outlet, cover...... Only this time don't double up. Just come off your new 2 pole 20 amp breaker.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I get the new Square D 100amp box.

in it I will have...
(2) 120v, 15a
(1) 2 pole 240v, 20a
(1) 240v, 30amp that accepts the feed from the house.

?
 
Odog27 said:
To code - get a squareD 100 amp QO 8 space panel($37.00) to replace existing panel. Then you can reuse existing breakers in new panel. Also get a 2 pole 20 amp breaker. Then do what I said in my second post. 4x4 box, outlet, cover...... Only this time don't double up. Just come off your new 2 pole 20 amp breaker.
Click to expand...

^^^ What he said!!^^^ we both are saying the same thing, just taking different routes, lol
 
Moleng1 said:
You can basically run another 220 in parallel to the dryer circuit, in the same way you run 220 heaters in parallel. The only difference is you will run the wires out of the dryer (2 hot and the ground) through a single 15 amp breaker and then into the correct plug in for your kiln. You can do the work your self, but pay an extra $20 to have an electrician look at the install and approve it. Well worth the money.
Click to expand...
The dryer is in the house and 50feet away from the detached garage I have my shop in. At the begining of this thread I didn't realize that I had 240v, 30a to the garage. Now I would like to avoid running a 50ft extension from the house and use the existing service to the garage.
 
Rick Marchand said:
Okay 240v, 15a receptacles are rare.... would a 240v, 20a be okay... I am only pulling 11a from it?
Click to expand...

Rick Marchand said:
Okay, so I get the new Square D 100amp box.

in it I will have...
(2) 120v, 15a
(1) 2 pole 240v, 20a
(1) 240v, 30amp that accepts the feed from the house.

?
Click to expand...

Not that rare I just bought one from a small town Home Hardware
http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/i...acle/_/N-ntk2a/Ne-lrv1/No-48/R-I3665304?Num=0
or
Just wire this up as a single not a double and put one of those baby guards in to the side you plugged wo you don't try to use it.(or tape)
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/15-amp-250v-receptacle-ivory/903719

If the feed from the house is 30 amp breakers and the proper wire for that,
then 15 plus 15 is still under 125 percent of the 30

Once you go up to 15 plus 20, you are over the code limit.
plus then you stay smaller with the breaker and wire too
 
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So I can't just add a 2 pole 20amp breaker to this?

P1010357.jpg
 
Let me look at that pic, it's odd

Where do the supply lines that come from the house panel connect ?
 
I'm trying to understand that box

In this pic you can see how the supply neutral white comes in a large eye with set screw

The white is right, the hot poles should be similar

ricksbox1.jpg


do the lugs I have circled have large eyes and setscrews ?
That's where your 10 gauge supply should the subpanel from the house
 
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If I understand that box, then it looks like the power is going in and out of the screw terminals and bypasses the breakers
(improper installation)
I think the 10 gauge wire should come into those large lugs on the bottom (just like the white one does)
and is distributed in that piano key pattern up the middle and through the breaker, then out the wires connected on the right.

There should only be one wire per screw coming out of the right side of the breaker




The breakers have the square D logo on it

Find the model number of that panel and look up the specs, see if you can get the breaker
Usually on a paper label on the panel or cover

Maybe this one, check model number of the breaker box see if you can find a QO on it somewhere

This breaker is a Schneider Electric - Square D Double Pole 15 Amp QO Plug-On Circuit Breaker
Model: QO215CP model QO 2 pole, 15 amp

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/double-pole-15-amp-qo-plug-on-circuit-breaker/901406

21270.QO215CP_4.jpg



The bottom breaker, what's that feeding ?
If it's not used can you

Then install a tied double pole 15 amp breaker
(of the make and model for that box)



Tell me again
What are those 3 breakers connected to?
1x15a for lights and outlets
1x15a for door opener (probably have to disconnect) to stay within the code limit for the 30A
the bottom double that you are calling 220v 30A what is that feeding ?




And have you verified the wire gauge feeding into that sub panel ?
 
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Rick,
Is a 15A 220 going to be OK or are you planning on upgrading to a new kiln in the future? If you aren't you should safely be able to run the 15A 220 and 2x15A 110s. Your garage door opener and lights can be run from one 110. Your kiln from the 220 and whatever from the other 110.
 
I've been going back and forth in your photos and I think I grok it.

attachment.php


P1010357.jpg



Somebody fouled up the installation.


You show the supply from the house as you have labelled in yellow - but those wires cut off in the larger photo.

Those wires are feeding into the exit of the breakers on the bottom.

They should feed the supply into the bottom of the box in those heavy hex set screw lugs, cross to the right in teh piano key pattern and towards the right, through the breakers and out the wires on the right side.

Switch off the power from the breaker in the house panel
run an extension cord and lamp from the house to the garage at the panel- working in the dark sucks

dis connect the supply wires coming into the garage subpanel from the screws of the breaker, this is the wrong installation.

Connect them into the lugs I've circled in this photo
Which side is black or red doesn't matter

ricksbox1.jpg



That frees up that bottom 220 30A breaker doesn't it ?
Pull that breaker - it prys / snaps out.
Replace it with the 20A
Possibly this one
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/double-pole-15-amp-qo-plug-on-circuit-breaker/901406

Take your 30A into the store with you - you know it fits your panel
(they have trouble with theft and keep them under lock and key, put a name tag on your 30 so they know it's yours

They also are finicky with returns on breakers, eyeball your 30 that you know fits the panel side by side with the 20A you are buying
be sure that size and lug positions match so it will fit and snap into the panel before you pay for it.
Check and see if the QO model matches too.


http://www.chapters.indigo.ca/books...-province-P-S-Knight/9780920312384-item.html?

Install it

Be sure there is only one wire per screw exiting each breaker.



Now to wire the outlet
Code says, plastic coated wire inside the walls where it is protected is OK.
Armour coated (Romex or metal spiral wrapped BX ) outside the walls where it could be damaged
Get the armour coated and fasten to your wall for simple installation.


http://www.homedepot.ca/product/14-3-ac-90-armour-cable-20m/908348
If you are doing 15A this 14 gauge should do it, buy it by the foot not the whole roll.

The outlet
http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/i...acle/_/N-ntk2a/Ne-lrv1/No-48/R-I3665304?Num=0

and a simple box, http://www.homedepot.ca/product/utility-box-2-3-8-in-wide-1-7-8-in/977520
and the cover with the single round hole that fits http://www.homedepot.ca/product/utility-15a-single-receptacle-cover/977523
and 2x 1/2"npt clamps - can't find a link
nuts http://www.homedepot.ca/product/1-2-in-locknut-bag-of-10/910002




That bad installation should be a clue to get the house and garage double checked to see what else they have done you didn't find yet.
For instance, that white wire shouldn't be there coming out of the breaker.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=310143&d=1351734691

Verify that the supply wire from the house to the garage sub panel is 10 gauge, if they went cheap and thin you would be overloaded.
10 gauge should be .102"


Code used to require some drywall behind the panel to act as fire insulation and protect the OSB plywood from burning if the panel overheats a little.
Check and see if that still applies in your area and add it to your garage subpanel.
 
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