For all of you Electro-magicians

Rick I have the same kiln as you and I ended up changing the wall outlet and adding a leg to it for my 240v source however that was because it came off a 240v breaker. I was fortunate in that respect. The pid in mine is ran from just one leg so its 110v.
 
This is a rental, you have to be able to "undo" ?


In the garage, you must have at least one outlet, which circuit is it connected to?
Are you sure there are 2 separate poles in the garage ?
Measure the hots between both and see if it gives you 220

You say the power panel is full ?
It may be possible to free up some space with mini circut breakers - they give you 2 in one
So if you can replace a couple, that may give you a 2 pole 220 for the oven.


How far is the panel from the garage?
and can you access space to run a wire ?
That's the method I would prefer


Can you live without the garage door opener?
 
Here are some pics of the garage set up.

I can live without the door opener... all I need is (1) 240v, 15amp and (1) 120v, 15amp to get by.
 

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If you are fabricating your own cord use SO or SJO type cord 10 gage. Buy the two plug ends you need (30amp/240 volt four prong male and 20amp/240 volt three prong female). The SO or SJO cord only needs to be three conductor. It will have a black, a white and a green. On the four prong 30 amp cord end, hook the black wire to one of the straight blades and the white wire to the other straight blade. Then the green wire to the L shaped blade. On the other end of the cord hook the black wire to the flat and the white wire to the sideways T shaped. The green goes to the U shape. This will work fine. It is not to code and leaves the load(your kiln) unprotected. This does not really make it unsafe as I doubt you will be turning your kiln on and then leaving the house. Since you will be present when in use you would be aware of any problems. What it means is if your kiln was to malfunction it would be able to pull a lot more amps prior to popping the breaker than it should. The load (your kiln) determines the amp draw. It will only pull what it needs(11 amps).
 
The good news-it looks like you have 220 running into your garage. The bad news-you will need to rewire the breakers in the garage to use it the way you want to. I don't know what your rental agreement is like, but if the owner stops by and notices that you have rewired the panel.......
You can run an extension cord from your dryer to the garage and attach 2x110v 15A Females to it and 1X220v 15A female. If you hook up some 15A fuses in line with your live wires you should be safe. Although, if you do this, I think you will need 12-4 stranded wire. If YOU short between the live wires, your wife might be having some Rocky Mountain Oysters for dinner.
 
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Or in the garage you could get a couple Romex connectors, a piece of 12/2 Romex, A metal 4x4 box, a three prong 240 volt/20 amp outlet and cover. Screw the box to the wall next to the garage panel set up the outlet black to flat, white to sideways T and green to U shaped. The other end of the wire goes to garage panel. Put the black wire under the same terminal as the black wire on the 30 amp breaker, the white wire under the same terminal as the red wire on the 30 amp breaker and the bare ground under the same lug as the ground coming from the house panel. You would want to turn off the 30 amp breaker in the house panel that feeds the garage prior to playing around in the garage panel. When your done turn it back on. Oh! I almost forgot. I am an electrical contractor.
 
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Odog27 said:
Or in the garage you could get a couple Romex connectors, a piece of 12/2 Romex, A metal 4x4 box, a three prong 240 volt/20 amp outlet and cover. Screw the box to the wall next to the garage panel set up the outlet black to flat, white to sideways T and green to U shaped. The other end of the wire goes to garage panel. Put the black wire under the same terminal as the black wire on the 30 amp breaker, the white wire under the same terminal as the red wire on the 30 amp breaker and the bare ground under the same lug as the ground coming from the house panel. You would want to turn off the 30 amp breaker in the house panel that feeds the garage prior to playing around in the garage panel. When your done turn it back on. Oh! I almost forgot. I am an electrical contractor.
Click to expand...

I like this... It seem like the best option and easily taken out afterwards. The landlord is a young adventure-seeking woman who is currently doing whitewater in the grand canyon. Then she is moving out to British Columbia. Judging by the current state of the house, I don't think she knows a lick about electrical or basic home repair. All I've been doing around this place is fixing half-ass repair jobs. She would have no idea about the garage wiring. I need to read more on your idea, Odog, so I don't screw it up and burn the place to the ground.

So if I have this straight, I would essentially be piggy-backing a 240v, 20amp, single receptacle onto the 240 volt, 30amp service from the house? So the breaker in the house would cover my butt and as long as I am not drawing more than 30amps from the entire garage panel, I am okay?

Rick
 
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Nathan the Machinist said:
Y'all, I haven't noticed anyone address the neutral issue. If the oven is using the neutral for a 120 circuit, and the dryer plug is lacking a neutral, there is a problem here. There are a couple solutions to that, but they're not pretty. If you use ground for neutral you will go to hell.

Nate (drinking beer, eating collard greens, exploring my inner bumpkin)
Click to expand...
Heck yes you will go to hell if you use earth ground as the neutral. Do it on my crew and I'll expedite your trip!
Steve the ex-equipment engineer (also drinking beer, but eating a burrito and looking at a pumpkin).
 
Are there any larger pics - maybe photo bucket or something ?
Including the sticker of the panel, model number and max amps...


If you read that book I mentioned above you can get specifics, I'm working on memory.

There are provisions in the code for a garage, or "one man workshop"
because it can be assumed that one man can only use one machine at a time.
You can hookup 125% of the 30 amps


That 30 amp subpanel makes it simpler
If it's really done properly. But I'm suspicious
So far as far as I can tell in those photos, it looks like the wire coming into that panel is only 14 gauge.
measure it and be sure, should be 10 gauge? verify that.

If it's only 14 gauge you can't pull more than 15 per pole unless you put in a heavier wire.





If you can verify that the wire from the house panel to the garage subpanel is 10 gauge
Then I would just setup the subpnel with the 20amp 220 breaker you need for the kiln

and run romex armoured cable from the subpanel to your wall outlet location where the kiln will be
for the 220 15 amp outlet , 14 gauge wire would be right for that on runs under (150 feet)

and a 15 a 125v breaker / circuit for the grinder / lights.



You're not running the oven every day ?

If you knew that you won't run the door opener at the same time as the oven, you could even leave the opener connected
- maybe a cut out switch to shut off the opener when the oven is on,



The mini double breakers can give you more panel space from the house panel if you need it.

How hard is it to run an extra wire from the house panel to the garage?
If you need to could you upgrade the wire size to the subpanel?



so

Go through the breaker and map out and label what breaker is for what.

then

Call an electrician or three, or four , estimates and talk are free
See if that wire to the subpanel is large enough to handle the 30 it's hooked up for.
see why that white wire is connected to the breaker, maybe it's safe but not to code, It is a sign that someone else was there.

If you can do it all with permanent wire and avoid the dryer extension cord it's less hassle for you and wifey
 
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Ground and neutral are bonded together in the panel. Rick needs a ground and no neutral. His kiln has a three prong plug on it. Two hots and a ground.
 
Feed wire for garage panel is 10 gage. The fourteen gage wires are connected to the two 15 amp breakers.
 
A breaker will actually only hold 80% of its rating under continuous load. 20 amp breakers pop at 16+ amps.
 
No one has addressed the amperage overage that will occur by plugging an 11amp kiln into a 30 amp circuit. The breaker is there to protect the equipment plugged into it. If you have a problem with the kiln, it may not trip the breaker before damage to the kiln occurs, or heaven forbid, it melts down and causes a fire!

It is legal to tap off the existing dryer plug and go through a single separate 15 amp breaker then install the correct wall socket beside the dryer socket.
 
Odog27 said:
A breaker will actually only hold 80% of its rating under continuous load. 20 amp breakers pop at 16+ amps.
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I think I knew that... lol... at one point in my life. I am a one machine at a time worker. My entire shop at my old place ran on one 120v, 15amp outlet(lights, machines, everything) without ever popping a breaker. Then I got my kiln and wired in a 240v, 20amp.

I want to avoid dealing with the dryer outlet at this point. It is in the house and would need a 50ft extension to get to the garage. Working with the existing subpanel in the garage sounds like the way to go.

Count... if you look at the picture of the house panel, there is sprayed foam insulation all the way around it... rewiring would be a biatch. It seems like Odog thinks I have the right gage wire... I will try to confirm that also.
 
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Odog27 said:
Ground and neutral are bonded together in the panel. Rick needs a ground and no neutral. His kiln has a three prong plug on it. Two hots and a ground.
Click to expand...

Odog27 said:
Feed wire for garage panel is 10 gage. The fourteen gage wires are connected to the two 15 amp breakers.
Click to expand...

Odog27 said:
A breaker will actually only hold 80% of its rating under continuous load. 20 amp breakers pop at 16+ amps.
Click to expand...

I agree
the kiln is 220v 11 amp, so a 220v 15 amp circut breaker, wire and outlet would be ok.
 
So to simplify again

Be sure the wire feeding that subpanel is 10 gauge

Then reconfigure that subpanel with the breakers you need.
220v 15 a
110v 15 a


It looks old, I bet it's easier to buy a new little sub panel box and breakers than to find ones that fit the old one.
 
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Odog27 said:
Put the black wire under the same terminal as the black wire on the 30 amp breaker, the white wire under the same terminal as the red wire on the 30 amp breaker and the bare ground under the same lug as the ground coming from the house panel
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you are an electrical contractor, but it is totally illegal to double up wires on any breaker here in B.C. Against code, and if problems arose, the OP would be liable.
 
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