For all of you Electro-magicians

Nice big picture. It also helps that I am on my iPad now instead of my iPod touch. You can add your two pole breaker for kiln on the left. There is nothing wrong with the installation in the picture. The reason the panel is fed through the two pole thirty instead of going directly to the panel lugs is so that there is a "local disconnect". Put your 2 pole 20 amp (or 2 pole 15 amp, either is acceptable by code) on the left then get your Romex, 4x4 box, outlet.....
I see a lot of advice being given to you by people that, although trying to be helpful, don't know what they are looking at or talking about.
In the above post I see something about a white wire going to a breaker - the white wire is clearly going to the neutral bar. And that is where it should be. In reality white wires often go to breakers - in this case they are not being used as a neutral but as a hot. You will often see this on two pole breakers. You are going to do this for your new kiln outlet. Technically by current code you are supposed to re-identify the conductor using black or red tape.
Get your new breaker pop it in and proceed.
I am heading to work. I will check back this evening to see if you have any other questions, problems or myths to be dispelled.
 
Wow, good luck on the shop re-org, Rick.
I think we're gonna start seeing rigging knives from you...
 
Odog27 said:
You can add your two pole breaker for kiln on the left.

There is nothing wrong with the installation in the picture.

The reason the panel is fed through the two pole thirty instead of going directly to the panel lugs is so that there is a "local disconnect".

If that's really OK then I'm wrong.
I've always seen boxes with a separate built in main disconnect


In the above post I see something about a white wire going to a breaker - the white wire is clearly going to the neutral bar.
Technically by current code you are supposed to re-identify the conductor using black or red tape.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=310143&d=1351734691
The 15 A just below his marked yellow has a white going to a breaker
It's on a single pole 15 amp breaker and it's not remarked as black or red
You can see it on top of the neutral bar
Click to expand...

If it's really Ok to do that in the box disconnect then I am wrong about that.
 
Even with the advice that's been given, most of which is good, for anything beyond replacing the plug on the kiln's cord, replacing the cord on the kiln or making your own extension cord I would redommend hiring a liscensed electrician.
 
Rick would recommend having it checked by a licensed guy but it looks like this is an 8 circuit panel being used as a sub panel protected by the two pole breaker in the two lower right slots - that being said can you post a picture of the label from the door as that will tell you what spaces are listed for use with the current configuration
 
Alright... this is confusing me...

I put a voltage indicator across the red and black wire connections on the bottom breaker in this picture and it reads 120v. Is this not a 240v, 30a?

P1010357.jpg
 
Okay..... my electrical knowledge is nil. When I touch the leads on the dryer breaker I get a 120v reading, too????? I KNOW that one is 240v....


**IDIOT ALERT**

I am using a 3-Range Hi-Vis volage tester and now realize that I am reading 240v. I was under the impression that one light would read 120v, another would read 240v and the last would read 277v. I did not expect the 120v light to be on WITH the 240v. I went back and read the box in the garage and BOTH the 120v and the 240v are definately on(though the 120is a bit more intense. Then I went to the House panel and checked the breakers there... I feel better now.

Gimme a break... it's my first tester.:o

I have all the parts for the install. Now, I just need to wait for my tools to show up, along with the shop(the movers are due to be here 3-5th of Nov). Something tells me my Leatherman isn't going to cut it.
 
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I'm sure everyone who's posted here has your best interests at heart, and knows their stuff inside out. Regardless, when I get to fooling around with things that can burn my freaking house down, I prefer to have a real, live, licensed person there to check it out before I hit the switch. If you can't get the utility company or an independent electrician to sign off on an inspection (they don't charge much, at least down here)... there's probably a good reason for that. Just sayin', bro.
 
I don't think you have to worry about Rick when it comes to safety. Isn't he the guy who wears safety glasses when walking through the woods?!
 
Phil Dwyer said:
I don't think you have to worry about Rick when it comes to safety. Isn't he the guy who wears safety glasses when walking through the woods?!
Click to expand...
Guilty...... Ha!

Oh Phil, I just love your dwye sense of humour. (Yes, in Canuckistan, the "u" in humour is supposed to be there.)
 
james terrio said:
I prefer to have a real, live, licensed person there to check it out before I hit the switch. If you can't get the utility company or an independent electrician to sign off on an inspection (they don't charge much, at least down here)... there's probably a good reason for that. Just sayin', bro.
Click to expand...

I understand that, completely. My reservation with having an inspector is that, judging by the conduit being separated at two places and several other things that appear sketchy, I might bring down more than just my attempt to gain a 240v receptacle. As it stands, the landlord doesn't quite know what it is I do for a living. If I burn down the garage or house, the fact that i have an open forge and kiln pretty much screw me over, anyway. I'll stick to being illegitimately safe.
 
Another question....

I am coming to realise that just be cause a panel is 100a doesn't mean that all the breakers in it can't exceed 100a. It simply means that the maximum draw at any given time from the circuits connected should not exceed what the panel is rated for, right?

As it stands right now, there are 3 breakers in my 240v/30a garage panel.

240v/30a breaker that the line in from the house(240v,30a) is attached to. As I understand it, this is set up as a local main switch.

120v/15a for the garage door(7a draw max)
120v/15a for two light fixtures and two receptacles.

I intend to add a 240v,20a breaker to run my kiln(11a draw max)
Move the garage door opener onto the 120v/15a circuit with the plugs and lights.
Repalce the other 120v/15a with a 120v/20amp and run new 12/2 yellow wire to a 20a receptacle to power my grinder(15a draw max)

So my new 240v/30a panel will have on it. The wire coming from the house is #10.

120v/15a breaker with #14 white wire
120v/20a breaker with #12 yellow wire
240v/20a breaker with #12 red wire

I can't see how I could ever have everything running at the same time on this but for arguement sake... lets say I tried... am I covered by all of these breakers(3 for any given circuit back to the house panel)? Is it to code or at least, safe?
 
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The "100 amp" panel simply means the buss bars inside of that panel are rated up to 100 amps.

If the feed wire coming into your shop is a 10 ga, and it is protected by a 30 amp breaker, you're okay there.

If the wires feeding out of your sub panel all have breakers appropriate for that wire size, you're okay there too.

It is unusual to have a sub panel with such a small input and so many relatively large outputs, but it is safe and probably meets code. If you put too large a load on it, it will pop the feed breaker.

Years ago I was in a similar situation where I had a mill, lathe and welder in a shop. The electrician insisted upon running power capable of running all three at their peak draw simultaneously which was an unnecessary expense. So long as there is no wire being fed by a breaker larger than its capacity you should be fine.

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician.


edit to add:

It is very plausible you may be grinding and running your oven at the same time on a regular basis. In that possibly frequent scenario you will be stressing the feed line. In theory it is rated for it. But who knows how well the original installation was done, and any time you're pressing things near their capacity on a regular basis you're "pushing your luck" in that a poorly made splice etc can get pretty hot. After many cycles of this some flaw or weakness in your system may show up. Plan for this, be on the lookout for hot spots and guard against fire.
 
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The hopfully final update....

garagepanel.png


Notes:
-The 120v/20a line is going to (1)single receptacle. That means I have to
unplug the heater to use my grinder and vice-versa. That will avoid over
loading.
-I will use the garage door outlet on the ceiling to power the 2rod
flourescent ballast.
-I replaced one of the 15a with a split breaker to separate the wall
outlets from the existing garage lights(that I replaced with 25watt mini
florescent bulbs)

To put my power usage into perspective, aside from the 240v kiln line, I
previously ran my entire shop on ONE(1)120v/15a outlet without ever
tripping a breaker.
 
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