For freehanders, what stones do you use on your TRADITIONALS?

getout87 said:
so, I got my smith stones in, and a new opinel #8 to try them out on. I can say with 90% certainty that I have never been this frustrated in my entire life. For whatever reason, I just cannot do it right. Ugh
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Haha welcome to freehand sharpening. :)

Don't worry, I'm laughing WITH you, not AT you. It's no wonder the guided systems are so popular. I can get a downright amazing edge with my system that only very serious freehand sharpeners can match. That doesn't showcase my talent at all of course.

I'm endeavoring to get much better with my stones. I'm sure it will be an extremely frustrating ride, but you just gotta remember to not take it too seriously. If there's one thing I've learned from my past experience it's that you should take your time (and the important part) put it down for the night when it starts to feel overwhelming. When I come back to it later I always feel better, without fail.





richstag said:
Duncan,

If you get an edge finished correctly the edge will last. The biggest reason I have found for premature loss of sharpness is a burr that you did not realize you raised. The trick is to master honing no matter what grit. Like I said earlier, and Elliot mentioned, the strop should be a tool for cleaning up the small stuff and NOT relyied upon to fix problems.

I say this in a helpful tone having been there and done that. I used to be very frustrated too, my friend. It gets better, much better. I would say it took me the better part of 15 years to get this good on stones. It was quite a journey, lots of frustrating failures. Keep trying my friend.

If I can give the best piece of advice, stop trying to get the edge a little better. I don't feel my edges to see if they are better. I do it by sight. If you have to get a 10x loupe to see well enough please invest you will be happy to see what is actually happening. So, if I can give a tip, sharpen until both sides hone down to the apex and STOP. This is the important part. Focus a lot hear. There is no burr and you don't wan't to form any more than you need.

Its so simple when you get it but I remember thinking it was impossible sincerely impossible.

Stropping can mess up an edge. It can also make you think your done when your not. Say you have an awful burr but you strop and think its good. Its not, its just aligned well and polished. Cut something it folds over and its dull.

I hope this stuff is helpful.

Kevin
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I'm a stropping maniac so I can't fully agree, although for almost all intents and purposes, you are spot on.

Three things I always recommend when stropping.

One, edge lead just until the edge starts to bite the leather, back off a couple of degrees, then hold it and edge trail at that angle.

Two, use thin leather with a short nap on a hard backing if you are rounding your apex. Finding the right leather is one of the small (but great!) victories in your sharpening career. ;)

Three, if you have a nasty burr, or wire edge, try cutting directly into a piece of wood at a 90° angle and slide the entire length of the edge in the cut. Often you'll see black left behind in the cut wood. There went your burr/wire. :)

I totally agree with those that say that stropping works at its finest when you've achieved the very best edge you can get from the stones before stropping. In other words, the better the edge is before you strop, the better it will be after.

It's all about refinement, and it can take a very sharp edge and make it screaming, pants-on-head insanely sharp. :D
 
Elliot and Kevin, thank you VERY much my friends, I will get out my stones and have a play around later tonight.
Thank you both for taking the time to explain and help me out :thumbup:

Interesting strigimort - I do remember reading that about running the edge down a piece of wood afterwards to remove burrs, thank you!
 
Duncan, your very welcome.

Strig, I have found the right leather for myself and made quite a few strops. I was a stropping maniac myself. I would dig out some videos to get you believing, but don't have the time right now. Also, the trick I learned for a stubborn burr is not wood but ball up paper towel tight and slice it. It takes it right off.

Aslo instead of using rough leather you can use jigh quality smooth leather and you use a buffer to put the compound IN the leather of the strop. Its the best I have ever used.


From my leather belts and compounds on my kalamazoo, to my leather hard backed strops, to the leather and linen barbers strops I got them all down. I was just trying to give Duncan some advice. The dulling to quick sounds like a burr.

I am glad you figured out what you prefer though :)

It took me thousands and literally years of practice to try all of the methods out. What I came down to was the quickest and most effective way and that was not relying on a loaded leather strop to get my knives sharp. That is unless I was using my Kalamazoo and black compound :)

Kevin
 
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richstag said:
Duncan, your very welcome.

Strig, I have found the right leather for myself and made quite a few strops. I was a stropping maniac myself. I would dig out some videos to get you believing, but don't have the time right now. Also, the trick I learned for a stubborn burr is not wood but ball up paper towel tight and slice it. It takes it right off.

Aslo instead of using rough leather you can use jigh quality smooth leather and you use a buffer to put the compound IN the leather of the strop. Its the best I have ever used.


From my leather belts and compounds on my kalamazoo, to my leather hard backed strops, to the leather and linen barbers strops I got them all down. I was just trying to give Duncan some advice. The dulling to quick sounds like a burr.

I am glad you figured out what you prefer though :)

It took me thousands and literally years of practice to try all of the methods out. What I came down to was the quickest and most effective way and that was not relying on a loaded leather strop to get my knives sharp. That is unless I was using my Kalamazoo and black compound :)

Kevin
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I hope I didn't come off as a know it all, or sounding like I was discounting your opinion. That's the last thing I meant to do. Nearly everything I've learned over the years has been guided by people, like you, who have been doing their thing for far longer than me. :)

Sometimes I get a chance to throw out my two cents worth of experience, but the truth is that I am very much still at the beginning stages of learning the craft.

You guys really handle yourselves like gentlemen around here and I appreciate that. ;)
 
No, I actually really appreciate you trying to give advice and its kind of you. I just wanted to let you know those couple things. The one trick with paper towel I learned a while back from a real pro when I was just learning with my Kalamazoo. The buffer to apply compounds was a basement find, but then I came to find wood working guys do it all the time so I wasn't that clever :-p

I didn't mean to come off cross either. I really do think everyone finds what works best and it may not be the same for everyone.

Sometimes I get too excited about sharpening because I took so long to figure it out and now that I have I feel like it was so much time and thought for such a simple process.

I thank you for helping Duncan also and I don't want to come across as a know it all but I try never to speak unless I'm certain with this kind of stuff :)

Anyhow, keep em' sharp brother.

Kevin
 
Ok, so I came back with a little more patience, and managed to get a pretty dang sharp edge on the opinel. I completely messed it up earlier, so it looks awwwwful, but it's sharp and satisfying. I think I'm on the way :)
 
getout87 said:
Ok, so I came back with a little more patience, and managed to get a pretty dang sharp edge on the opinel. I completely messed it up earlier, so it looks awwwwful, but it's sharp and satisfying. I think I'm on the way :)
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That's the spirit man! You've got me beat, I'm only good at making them ugly. :D

(And thanks Kevin. Pretty sure we're on the same page. ;) oh, and one last thing... would you mind weighing in here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1079856 ?)
 
pertinux said:
Like this?

Ie, Norton Combination India Stone?

~ P.
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pertinux said:
Thanks, guys!

Last question for now*: with this stone/material, do you use oil, water, detergent-water (dish detergent, watered-down Simple Green, etc.), or go dry?

~ P.
* Though of course now I'm wondering about dem Arkansas stones.

I'm beginning to understand sitflyer's array. ;)
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You already got answered by folks who probably know more about it than I, but for the record,

yes. A Norton India Stone. (Although it has been a division of the French company, Saint-Gobain for quite a spell, they still use the Norton trade name.)

Currently, I run my India Stone with Norton honing oil.
I run my DMT stones dry.
I run my Spyderco stones dry.
I used to run my Washita and Arkansas stones with Buck honing oil, which was red and always reminded me of transmission fluid.
 
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Here is a picture I'm getting ready to put up in another thread, but it applies here too. I use a similar system my dad used for years. Oil stone and 3-in-1 oil. Interesting story on the stone. I stopped at a garage sale last summer some time. The old man had his tools way over priced, but I got to talking to him and he was a pretty nice old man. Of course, the talk turned to knives. The next thing I know, he starting rummaging through the piles on his bench and came out with this stone. He said, "I think this would work really well for you. Wy don't you take it." He refused my money before I even had my wallet out. I have used it ever since.

It has a coarse and fine side. The wood is soaked with oil on the inside, and I have no idea how old it actually is. I very rarely use the course side, as it cuts way too fast for thin blades. I go with firm strokes on the fine side, then light strokes, then strop on a loaded strop. If I really want a fine edge, I might go to my 1000 grit Chosera water stone, but I rarely do that anymore. It seems that the toothy edge off that old silicon carbide stone works really well. Plus, the smell of the oil takes me back to watching my dad sharpen the only knife I've ever seen him carry, a US made Schrade SP-3. Someday, I'll make those memories with my little boy.
 
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