For Sale Individual or For Sale Dealer

Firebat

Firebat

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Maybe this isn't the proper place for this, so moderators, please shuffle it about as needed.

Just wondering 'what'- or maybe- 'who' differentiates between a dealer and an individual?

I am asking because I'm genuinely curious, and also because there seems to be a few individuals on the exchange boards who appear dealer-esque. As I read the posts and look over the sometimes fairly elaborate websites, I find myself asking what are the factors that make one person a dealer and another an individual as they apply to BFC's Exchange? Some of the posts in Individual are very similar to those in Dealer, so what's the official call? Spark?

Is it profit? Yet can that be verified? Are there other methods that BFC can use to see if someone is actually a dealer?

I'm not pointing fingers specifically, but I do think it's wrong if it is happening. A dealer has to pay quite a bit more than an individual to sell here, so if I were a dealer, I'd certainly want to know.

You don't want to exclude the people who just want to sell some of their stuff once and while, and at the same time, you don't want dealers taking advantage of the site. Is it a really fine line, or are there some other factors in place that I'm just not privy to?

Thoughts?

Firebat
 
Firebat...I too wonder sometimes when I see the number of sales by individuals..We are a VERY small internet dealer...heck, there are days I make less online sales than there are new kudos postings for some folks on GBU. Anyway, the way I see it a man has to be 'standup', and make the call himself. I doubt if Kevin could ever make a strong case against an individual...but if, as you say, there are 'individuals' with webpages devoted to 'knives for sale' I would peg that 'individual' as a 'dealer'. The dealer fee was never a problem with me...my concern was exactly your point...Anyway, I have been extremely please with the patronage of forumites, have fostered several good 'long-distance' friendships, and having been a 'dealer' for about as long as anyone here, am glad to give a little back to support Bladeforums. HO HO HO Happy Holidays Mike
 
Michael,

I somewhat disagree:

but if, as you say, there are 'individuals' with webpages devoted to 'knives for sale' I would peg that 'individual' as a 'dealer'.
Click to expand...

That would make me a dealer, because I made a page on my website to give descriptions and pictures of knives I'm selling. By no means am I buying knives from distributors or somehow getting a discount on any knives I buy then decide to sell or trade later.

I would contest that a dealer is someone who is able to buy from a distributor at "dealer cost." They probably have a resale tax id...but I'd suspect some people here don't want uncle sam to get a piece of their pie. ;) Maybe my definition is oversimplified.

~Mitch
 
Some of the people on here have MUCH bigger appetites than others...
and much bigger pocketbooks....that doesnt make them a dealer.
Luckily......its not up to me to decide......but I am glad they are alive!! :)
 
Mitch, boy am I glad I don't have to determine what defines a dealer. I am sure some individuals have been pegged as dealers...I suspect some individuals should be pegged as dealers...That determination is between the seller and the Forum powers...I actually think individual trading and selling helps me as a dealer due to increased traffic to my site to do price comparasions...if I get you to my site I stand a chance to make a sale...buyer saves $$$ I make $$$ everbody smiles. Ahh...capitalism....Having sold knives at a brick and mortar store for over 20 years, I have learned not to worry too much about your competators...most of the griping is purely 'sour grapes' and reflects as much on the griper as the gripee... I would like the basic members that reply to WTB posts sign up to sell..The more financial support the forum gets the better for all...awww..gotta go...kids and wife hollering...always like a good fight.. :rolleyes: md
 
There has been much discussion on this subject.

I actually had a somewhat lengthy reply,but I'll defer this to Spark,
as he is the one who ultimately has to make the call.
I'm just one of the exchange forum 'cops', who enforces the BFC law, as determined by the Almighty Spark! :D

Seriously,and on a personal note,I fully support the dealers who have stepped up and registered as dealers here. Quoting Michael Dye, aperson has to be a 'standup' guy. I wholeheartedly agree.
 
but i am a "stand-up" guy !!!!controversial- yes !!! honorable -yes i assume the gbu post ups mike was referring to was me guess what mike if i wasnt all that people say i am they would put up something less flattering right??? i cannot make them say good things afterall they already have the knife from me when they do the post up so they must be happy with me if they post up so many positives i pride myself on being honorable and doing fellow forumites well!!!! as long as i can please 98 out of every 100 i deal with i am happy the other 2% i could care less about heck those 2% probably dont even like themselves its guys like me who make the forum what it is BLADEFORUMS IS THE BEST !!!! i buy lots of stuff on this forum i trade lots of stuff on this forum and i sell even less i enjoy trading !!! i enjoy knives !!! as tom mayo said some just have bigger wallets than others i like watches too in fact i am getting a new titanium iwc aquatimer from a fellow forumite !!! it seems to me too many people worry about is this guy a dealer is that guy a dealer instead of just getting on the forums and getting busy !!!! im just happy as hell when i can score a new cool knife to add to the collection my motto is this " dont hate - participate " not much of an xmas for me this year since my daddy died but i thank god for bladeforums it consoles me it comforts me as do the many great friends i have made these past few months i thank you spark for allowing me the pleasure of participating in what i believe to be the largest best coolest 24 hr internet knifeshow in the world happy holidays to all my fellow forumites to spark and to the moderators thanx jaxurman
 
I would disagree that a dealer would neccessarily be someone that can get knives from a distributor at a discount. That would be one type of dealer. Another would be someone that deals in used knives. He would buy from you or I at a price better than he knows he can sell it for. I do think that a dealer has to be someone that is actually trying to make a profit. How you could ever prove that one way or the other, I do not know.
 
I do not think whether a person is happy with a deal quantifies that person as a DEALER or a NON-Dealer. If a person spends his entire day on the knife-exchange here on BF and posts a knife and then during the course of a day has posted 20 more times about how great the "deal is" and how great the knife is and now the price is reduced from $450.00 to $440.00, sees no interst and posts, "this is a great [deal], how can you pass it up" the price is now $430.00 and continues to do this with EVERY knife that person has for sale makes that person a WHAT?????????
I am a little player. I do not have any knives of value to anyone BUT ME. I could NOT make a living selling anything to anyone. This is my two-cent opinion from a two-cent member of BF. Take it or LEAVE IT.
The entire controversy comes down to ONE ISSUE...HOW MUCH you have paid to be a member of BF. If you say you have a walk in safe and a VAST collection, use words like "I am a BIG-time Player" and I have an enormous amount of CAPITAL available that allows me to wheel and deal in knives, THEN END THIS RIDICULOUS controversy and pay the FRIGGIN fee to be a DEALER. Whether you are one or ARE NOT one, who gives a crap, at least you have taken some petty cash from your enormous wallet and chucked those "pennies" on the table to shut EVERYONE the PHUCK UP!!!!!
This sh.it is older than MOLD. And JACK, I am WAY OUT OF YOUR LEAGUE BUDDY, I am a very small potatoe who thinks BENCHMADES are AWESOME......................Ira:( :( :(
Oh yeah edited to add: I WEAR a CITIZEN Watch. I have NEVER even touched an IWC or ROLEX!!!!
 
I'd like to briefly address Kieth's point about the "profit motive."

Selling at a profit does not a dealer make.

If a forumite bought a Straight-handled Busse Steel Heart II three years ago for $300, he may now realize that the market for said knife is in the $500 range. Perhaps he'd like to take advantage of such a strong bid and buy himself a Steel Heart E and an Assault Shaker with the proceeds. But he's not a dealer.

If a forumite found an old Randall Model 2 at a flea market for $50, knowing it was worth much more, would you ask that he sell it for $49 on the forums? That wouldn't exactly be fair. I see no problems at all with a collector that takes advantage of a good find once in a while. You may label him a speculator or a trader, but certainly not a dealer.

We all hope the value of our knives increases over time. There's nothing wrong with that at all. It's simply the market telling us that we made a good choice. And if the market likes our knives better than we do, we slap that market with an offering and look for a new knife to take its place on our belt.

No, a dealer, by my personal definition, is someone who routinely buys knives with the sole intent of selling them for a profit. More so than a mere speculator, the dealer turns the knife market into a steady source of income.

Indeed, there are grey areas and one could very easily turn this thread into another argument over semantics, but for the most part, I think it will suffice that forumites choose which "stand-up guy" they'd like to do business while Spark enforces his clearly stated policies with the help of his chosen moderators. Good people know what's right and wrong and most forumites have enough integrity to conduct themselves with honesty, respect, and fairness when dealing with one another.

:)

By the way, my website may read like a dealer's site too. My enthusiasm about my knives is manifest in my desire to proudly display them and tell people about them, rather than locking them up in a dark safe.

[edited for spelling]
 
Originally posted by jaxurman
but i am a "stand-up" guy !!!!
Click to expand...

It seems to me the only people that don't think jaxurman is a Dealer is jaxurman and Spark. If Spark has no problem letting this guy slide it sure isn't any of my business. Would I call him a 'stand-up guy"? No, even with a 98% approval rating there's still something "Hinky" about this guy and the way he does business. I can't put my finger on it, but it's enough to where I ignore all of his posts, (No pics and no Capitalization is another reason) and any posts from his customers. Everyone of those I saw makes me more sure this is not someone I'd want to deal with.

its guys like me who make the forum what it is BLADEFORUMS IS THE BEST !!!! i buy lots of stuff on this forum i trade lots of stuff on this forum

For some the Exchange Forum is their only reason to be here, I don't believe that's why Spark keeps BFC open or that they add much to what makes BFC great. But hey, we all have our own reasons for coming here and our view of how we see ourselves. Others may or may not agree.
 
ira aka "wolfman 601 " wants to attack me now ???? hmmm??? here is a guy who is a total flake 3X HE FLAKED on deals the last time was a duncan m-a folder i will not deal with him too many other "good" guys out there to deal with sorry ira find another sandbox to play in i told you several times to be honorable i am i am not on bf every day in fact i hadnt put my knives listed btt in some time at least a couple of weeks you should not step out of the benchmade price range you are in nothing wrong with them in fact i like spydies and collect them check out my ads all say spydie trades ok wolfie you might be an ok guy but you are a little league guy maybe still in t-ball stay there dont bother the players with your bs !!!! admit that you are one of those who has no money and dreams of doing big deals its ok to dream but dont make promises you cant keep and offer to make deals you cant follow thru with !!! you know i tried so hard to deal with you but the old adddage came into play " money talks!!!!!- bullshit walks !!!! i told you before to be a player you must have the ability to walk up to the plate grab the bat and swing !!!! i know you so desperately want to do this but cant i understand and dont look down on you for not having the $$$ to get the knives you want you really need to continue to stay in the factory knife arena the customs are just too much money for you !!!! i really dont care to deal with the likes of someone like you you are not a man of your word my gbu feedback says it all as does my bf handle jack is the man but sorry wolfie not ur man there sis simply put too many other great guys to do trades and deals with on blade forums am i an egomaniac maybe so but i do biz the right way and i am honorable i do not look down on the little guy in fact just agreed to trade my brewer for a benchmade last night !! i have paid my dues for a gold membership cause i am not a dealer this has been discussed many many times before heck go back lok at other post you have made you even stated i was not a dealer !!! as to my watch hobby i have the same rep on timezone as here - flawless !! i love watches as do other bladeforum members remember wolfie dont hate - participate !!! clean up your own house before you attempt to take cheap shots at mine !!!! jack
 
ENOUGH OF THIS BULL$HIT! Anyone has the right to change his mind on a deal. Just as anyone has the right to buy or not buy from anyone. All this I'm a bigger player crap is really getting out of hand, we're all here because we like knives..PERIOD. Lets put this petty $hit behind us and get on with our hobby.
 
hi phil, i guess you are entitled to voice your opinion no matter how wrong you may be you do not have to deal with me thats your choice but to imply that only spark and i are the only 2people who KNOW that i am NOT a dealer is to disrespect the entire group of bladeforum moderators , everyone else i have done deals with and most importantly the man himself spark this issue died i thought long ago yes i will chime in every time veiled references are made by those about me like mike dye did saying that those with more gbu responses than he sells knives clearly that was a no - balls cheapshot at me i would have greater respect for that individual if instead he went ahead and said my name !!! my record here at bladeforums speaks for itself since mid may 2001 for the past 7 months i have beenn a good guy a stand up guy i treat people with respect and my word is good i have people who will send me 3,000.00 worth of knives just based on my word - why ?? cause its good !!!! hey phil join the other 2% your loss those who have dealt with me feel free to chime in on this thread those who have dealt with me always want to again too many to list so i will let those who have dealt with me to let phil know that i am one of bladeforums good guys !!! i meant what i said bladeforums is the "rolex watch " of internet knife sites thanx to kjs aka spark the moderators and the good members like myself who offer positive !!!! jack
 
although i know you are not a fan , i agree with one thing you said lets get on with our common bond the love of knives !!! i think abot knives all day !!! get so excited the night before a show i cant sleep !!! sure wwe have the right to change our minds not after 100 e mail saying to hold it its a dione deal etc think about it i am very serious about my dealings perhaps you not as much as me your choice jaxurman
 
ATTACK YOU???? I just DEFINED you!!!!! I balked on three deals. YOU BET. You NEVER had to POST "deal pending", you NEVER had to Package the Knife, YOU NEVER had to do anything. The last "DEAL" was AWESOME Jack. You bought a Duncan Whiplash for $350.00 and then PRESSURED me for several weeks to PROVE to YOU I am a MAN OF HONOR by paying YOU $400.00.
I did NOT back out of this last deal. I WANTED that knife badly. I told you to stick it UP YOU A$$ after you applied WAY TOO MUCH pressure, and DEMANDED I send you $300.00, all the money I had available at the time. I replied, No, Jack, when I have the $400 in FULL, I will buy the knife, but as I do NOT know when I will have the additional $100.00, This "DEAL" is on hold. NOPE, not good enough for JAXURMAN. So I said "take that whiplash and stick it up your A$$" DID I NOT (want me to print the E-mails?)
Now, RE-read MY POST. I did NOT attack you, I called a duck a DUCK. You post of your walk-in safe, your BMW's, your enormous wealth, and your standard line: "If you want to wheel and deal with Jack, you better be a BIG-PLAYER". Hey, I am a little weasel in the knife-world. I cannot "DEAL" at that level. Backing out of a deal is when we agree to a price, the words "sold" or "deal pending" are posted and the owner of the knife potentially suffers from my change of heart. In the THREE cases you cite, I changed MY MIND and took a BETTER offer within minutes of accepting yours, and as you say Jack:"If ya snooze ya lose"
Now, take some of your "millions" and end this God-awful childish crap. Be a "stand-up" MAN, not a GUY......Ira
 
Originally posted by jaxurman
hi phil, i guess you are entitled to voice your opinion no matter how wrong you may be you do not have to deal with me thats your choice but to imply that only spark and i are the only 2people who KNOW that i am NOT a dealer is to disrespect the entire group of bladeforum moderators , everyone else i have done deals with and most importantly the man himself spark
Click to expand...

First of all, of course it's my opinion and I didn't expect you to agree. That doesn't make me wrong.
Second, just because Spark has made you Bullet Proof doesn't mean that any of the Moderators here agree that you're Not a Dealer. You are a DEALER by any criteria of what a dealer is. I'm sure your customers are happy with you and that's fine, and that they could care less what you call yourself.

You brag about what a Big Deal Dealer you are putting down smaller guys. But, when the bill comes due it's, "Who Me? I'm not a Dealer!" :rolleyes:
If you're not honest in this, that's enough for me to want to steer clear of you. I really don't care what others decide to do.

"If someone is nice to you, but mean to the waitress, they ares not a nice person."
 
I agree 110% with what Wulf said. He nailed the whole issue right on the head. I am a knife collector. Period. Do I buy knives thinking, or hoping, that once I tire of them and want something new, I might make a buck or two on the turn around....you betcha. Does this make me a dealer.....I dont think so. Wulf said it best a "speculator". Considering that often times my speculation is wrong, and I probably have lost three times as much money selling knives as I have ever made, I dont think the fact that I make an occasional profit In any way could ever qualify me as a dealer. The fact that I bust ass 50-60 hours a week as a mechanical contractor assures me that it doesnt. Keep it nice guys, how about it. These personal attacks detract from the forums, the sanctity of which you all seem to believe so strongly in.
 
Does anyone else remember back when Jaxurman first appeared on the Forum and the whole "Is he a dealer or not" threads started?

I find it pretty funny that one of the points made back then was that some Forumites claimed he 'required' them to post in GBU as part of the deal. And others claimed he flat out asked them to post in GBU even if they did not make a deal. I've only made 50-60 deals on BF in 2 years and have not really been concerned about whether my name appears in GBU or not as long as both parties in the deal were happy :)

It does seem odd that since his appearance on BF, the GBU Forum might as well be called the "JAXURMAN is great Forum". Are we really supposed to think that everyone of those posts is a purely spontaneous response from the parties involved:rolleyes:

I know a lot of people who have been around a lot longer and have probably made many, many more deals that don't appear in GBU 10% as often, hmmmmmmm.

Just kind of makes you wonder...
 
In my original post I obviously did not make myself very clear. I did not mean that a person trying to make a profit on his knife or even his collection of knives is a dealer. What I meant was that to me to be a dealer you are someone who always has knives to sell and that this person turns a profit on all the knives he sells (unless of course he is trying to get rid of a dog). If you buy a knife for $50.00 that is worth much more and you sell it for a profit that does not make you a dealer. If you do that day in and day out then that does make you one.
 
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