Forged vs Stock Removal - Cost?

Keith Montgomery said:
That is one of the reasons that someone would pay more for a knife, so just because from your perspective it has nothing to do with it, from someone elses perspective if they thought that a stock removal knife was better made than a forged one, that would be a reason for them to pay more.
What I am saying is that stock removal or forged has, in my opinion, absolutely nothing to do with why those makers knives are priced differently.

The knives that Edmund Davidson makes that cost more than Tim Hancock's do are the full integrals, and you will find that knives with integral guards and butts are always way more money than the similar knives made the regular way. If you look at Edmund Davidson's standard knives you will see that they don't cost that much at all, though he doesn't make that many any more. Demand is for his integrals.

Take a look at the knives produced by David Broadwell. Carved pattern welded blades with carved ivory handles and impecable workmanship, for as little as $2000.00. I would be willing to bet you that I can find dozens, possibly hundreds, of stock removal makers that make knives as good as those by equivalent stature bladesmiths, that charge less.
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What I mean Keith is that I don't want this thread to be about one being better than the other and fighting over such.
And besides all 4 makers I referenced make superb knives. Who’s to say whose is better? I just wonder about the typical price differences.
We both have our opinions and that is OK.
I will be interested in other's opinions.
 
I'm really surprised that stag Big Bear is still around. It must be priced too high.

There are lot's of Loveless knives in the secondary market all the time, but for guys like me that prefer to order directly from the maker, Loveless is extremely hard to get. Not impossible, but extremely hard.

When I take a look at bowies from well known stock removal makers and well known steel bashers, I find that the forged knives tend to cost more. It all depends on the maker's popularity, and what's in demand.
 
betzner said:
Please correct me if I have missed something in the example comparison between the Dean and the Kressler. In the particular example given, the stock removal knife is a full integral, and in this case took longer to make than the forged blade, undoubtedly. And the Euro carries about a 35% premium over the dollar at the moment, causing the Kressler to automatically escalate in price simply based on the exchange rate.
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Fair enough regarding the currency exchange, but $1100 more :eek: :confused:

And I believe you overlooked the making of the Damascus which should more than offset the additional labor for the full integral construction on the Kressler.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
I'm really surprised that stag Big Bear is still.
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It is not priced too high, it just went on the market on Thursday, and the dealer has turned down numerous offers. It IS premium priced, though.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
It must be a different one then, because I can remember one being posted here quite awhile ago, I think by Kevin, that was for sale.
 
The one that Kevin is referring to is a 3 piece crown stag hidden tang handle at IQ Knives.

The one on Legendary Knifemakers may indeed be too high priced, I'm not sure.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
The one that Kevin is referring to is a 3 piece crown stag hidden tang handle at IQ Knives.

The one on Legendary Knifemakers may indeed be too high priced, I'm not sure.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
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Correct STeven, here's the crown stag one I was reffering to.
But there's actually three Big Bears available right now (the crown stag, a regular stag and a micarta one) along the JR Bear Keith is reffering to which is still available.

loveless_bear.jpg
 
Here's another example where a stock removal Masao Takahashi Fighter is well over a $1000 more than each of the comparable new forged Dean, Newton and Dunn Fighters. All are currently available or recently sold on knife websites. I find this perticularly interesting as IMO Masao is less well known (or has lower market position) in the stock removal sector than Harvey, Ron and Steve are or have in the forged sector.

Takahashi_20LgStagFighter-w.jpg


deanED.jpg

Offered by: Robertson Custom Cutlery

KRNW003-stag-fighter-combo20E.jpg

Offered by: Rehoboth Custom Knives

3725-1.jpg

Offered by: Arizona Custom Knives (recently sold)
 
RogerP said:
Since when is the price of high-end custom knives (forged or stock removal) primarily a function of their production cost?

Roger
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Hi Roger.
Whenever doing a price analysis the production cost is a logical place to begin.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Hi Roger.
Whenever doing a price analysis the production cost is a logical place to begin.
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True, but except for lavish use of seriously expensive materials, production cost plays a negligible role in the price of high-end custom stock-removal or forged blades. Put another way - production cost will not explain the price defferential between such knives, because it has FAR less to do with the price of a $3000 knife than it does with a $300 knife.

Roger
 
Kevin Jones said:
Fair enough regarding the currency exchange, but $1100 more :eek: :confused:

And I believe you overlooked the making of the Damascus which should more than offset the additional labor for the full integral construction on the Kressler.
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Pretty much in agreement on the Damascus point here. I just wanted to throw that element into the mix for one reason in particular. The point is exactly as you are making. It's only a single component of the "answer" to the question you posed in your thread. And to try and answer the question would require you to make head to head comparisons with each and every maker - and each time the answer would be different.

When using higher priced knives in the comparisons, it will, IMHO, always boil down to 1) collector desire and 2)the relative value the market currently places on the knifemaker's work. It will have less to do, it seems, with production or materials cost. The latter factors, it would seem to me, would only begin to have a real impact on price difference when you factor out anything other than intrinsic value.

Oh, and Kevin, your threads result in dynamite exchanges. Thank you and all participants for your consistency in provoking thought.
 
kevin.....do you think it is possible to compare such knives as loveless to other makers that forge blades.....loveless knives are in such demand....prices have skyrocketed.....i don't think you can compare them to a fisk or dean......who's prices have risen but probably over time like other makers......i am not a big time collector by any means but still.....i think if you compare stock removal makers that are not super hot that the forged knife will be priced higher most often that not.....ryan
 
ryan9977 said:
kevin.....do you think it is possible to compare such knives as loveless to other makers that forge blades.....loveless knives are in such demand....prices have skyrocketed.....i don't think you can compare them to a fisk or dean......who's prices have risen but probably over time like other makers......i am not a big time collector by any means but still.....i think if you compare stock removal makers that are not super hot that the forged knife will be priced higher most often that not.....ryan
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Ryan, you are spot on. You notice I have not attempted to Bring Mr. Loveless into this in regard to comparison to Jerry or others. I even removed the Fisk/Johnson example, even though I think it's valid. Even though that Johnson hunter is one of my favorite hunters of all time, IMO it's not worth so much more than the boot knife from the Fisk Gamblers Set.
Lots of other factors to consider when comparing Loveless knives to Fisk, Hancock, Dean and others.

I will have to disagree with your comment "if you compare stock removal makers that are not super hot that the forged knife will be priced higher most often that not" . My Takahashi/Dean/Newton/Dunn example disproves your theory. Though very good, IMO Masao not considered in the top 5%-10% of all stock removers; however his fighter is priced way above the top tier forged guys in the example.
 
RogerP said:
True, but except for lavish use of seriously expensive materials, production cost plays a negligible role in the price of high-end custom stock-removal or forged blades. Put another way - production cost will not explain the price defferential between such knives, because it has FAR less to do with the price of a $3000 knife than it does with a $300 knife.

Roger
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Roger, I'm not addressing $3000 knives here. All my examples shown have been in the $1100-$2500 range, which is a significant sector or the total customs market.

As I said in my above post, I'm not addressing Loveless or super high end knives here.

However that may be a future thread. ;)
 
good points kevin.....i was making a general statement about the stock removal guys versus forged guys.....i admit to knowing nothing about stock removal makers.....i still find it hard to believe that these makers get more money for these knives.....i stand corrected and will enjoy reading the rest of this thread.....ohh on a side note...if you ever wanna get rid of your fisks and start collecting stock removal , give me a call...:) ....ryan
 
ryan9977 said:
good points kevin.....i was making a general statement about the stock removal guys versus forged guys.....i admit to knowing nothing about stock removal makers.....i still find it hard to believe that these makers get more money for these knives.....i stand corrected and will enjoy reading the rest of this thread.....ohh on a side note...if you ever wanna get rid of your fisks and start collecting stock removal , give me a call...:) ....ryan
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Hi Ryan. Didn’t mean to appear to correct you. We just all have our own opinions. If not wouldn't be a very interesting forum. ;)

Yes, it is hard to believe, the price difference between the two types in some cases.
That was my point in starting this thread. I wanted to see if others had noticed and perhaps determine the reason why. If you monitor the various websites regularly, you start to notice these trends. There’s example after example.

Several have mentioned here that the different is not in the production cost, I realized that and even thought it obvious but thought best to get some maker input from both sides before making than assumption. Then the next step is to determine the reasons for the price differences, thus discussion on the matter.

Everyone knows and accepts Loveless prices are out of the solar system compared to forged top makers (even most Morans) but does that mean the concept trickles down to all stock removal knives as compared to forged?
 
kevin...if you don't mind sharing....what are the wbsite you regularly look at that you see examples of this stock removal overpricing phenomenon....just curious to look at some more comparisons myself.....if you could point out some names of stock removal makers in this category it would be appreciated....like i said ...i don't have any experience in the realm of stock removal....thanks...ryan
 
I think part of the reason for the price differences you are seeing is certain dealers are rather proud of their knives, no matter the maker or how they make their knives. I don't see any particular pattern of pricing emerging between stock removal and forged knives. I could easily compare super clean hunters from Geno Denning or Wayne Hendrix in the $200 to $250 range to some forged hunters from JS and MS makers in the $400 to $500 range and come to the opposite conclusion you are making.
 
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