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The Johnson and Takahashi knives ( and to a lesser extent the Kressler) being used here for comparison purposes are being quoted at prices that are significantly higher than the original makers price.
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The Johnson and Takahashi knives ( and to a lesser extent the Kressler) being used here for comparison purposes are being quoted at prices that are significantly higher than the original makers price.
Pretty much in agreement on the Damascus point here. I just wanted to throw that element into the mix for one reason in particular. The point is exactly as you are making. It's only a single component of the "answer" to the question you posed in your thread. And to try and answer the question would require you to make head to head comparisons with each and every maker - and each time the answer would be different.
When using higher priced knives in the comparisons, it will, IMHO, always boil down to 1) collector desire and 2)the relative value the market currently places on the knifemaker's work. It will have less to do, it seems, with production or materials cost. The latter factors, it would seem to me, would only begin to have a real impact on price difference when you factor out anything other than intrinsic value.
Oh, and Kevin, your threads result in dynamite exchanges. Thank you and all participants for your consistency in provoking thought.
I think there are several potential reasons:
1 - Leading collectors at the very top of the food chain are more interested in stainless than carbon steel. I remember reading an interview a while back in "La Passion des Couteaux" of an important collector (can't remember his name - he's the man who commissioned the "keshua" (sp?) series of knives with pierced and carved blades), and he said that he didn't collect carbon steel knives because whatever you did, something would happen at some point or another to the blade finish.
1bis - Leading collectors are more interested in the style of knives that is best / most often represented by stock removers (Loveless style, multiblade folders, etc). To the contrary, they are not that interested in bowies.
2 - Some stock removal blades take more work. When I look at the most popular stock removal knives, I often see mirror finish, deep hollow grinds, doubled grinds, etc. Those are very time consumming, and I am not sure we (forged blade afficionados) factor that work to the right extent. I know that I understand the work that goes into various aspects of a forged knife, but not so much of a stock removal piece.
3 - The ratio of forged to stainless collector pieces produced by be very different in the US than in other regions, e.g., Europe and Japan (in Japan, I consider the shinsakuto market to be completely different from the custom knife market). If this is true, the FX effect by itself would lift the price of stainless knives.
4 - The custom knife market for stainless is older and better established.
All those are possible reasons. I don't know if my hypotheses are true though. No doubt Les can bring some light...
I'm seeing a lot of really good points here. I don't know if it would be proper for me to comment here, as it is a very close subject in regards to the way I prefer to make my knives, and to my philosophy of what a Lovett knife should be. I am getting ready for a local show near Austin this weekend. so my time is short. However, if you guys think it appropriate, there are a few thing I have noticed over the years that I think apply to this thread. Mike
May I be the first to say that you suck?:grumpy:What that collector received was an absolutely gorgeous Loveless style Battle Blade and Chute Knife handled in elephant ivory with red liners. The polish and grinds on these knives are something to behold. Mikey you out did yourself on these two.
Off to Coop for photos.
Kevin, Johnson has a much larger following (customer base) than Hancock.
Yes, I agree bigger market including large international market and of course there's the whole Loveless thing, but 3 times more?
The 'stainless stock removal knife' has a larger following than the forged blade also. But, I feel the forged blade is on the rise.
Again I agree, on both accounts, however I think a large factor is that dealers are able to markup these knives considerbly where they are basically selling forged makers knives at makers price. There's nothing wrong with that as collectors are willing to pay it; for now anyway. Nordic sold that hunter for just about what Tim was asking @ Blade.
Are the higher-end forged blades under priced?
I think in quite a few cases they are. As per some discussion on the makers prices thread, forgers seem hesitant to raise prices.
I'm just a folder guy, these fixed blades are kind of new to me
You would never know it by the bowies you turn out![]()
Also, I do believe the custom folder market is larger (maybe much larger) than the fixed blade market. But there is more interest in fixed blades on this forum.
No question, the folder market is huge compared to fixed blade IMO too.
I'm just trying to raise awareness and get people thinking. Perhaps stock removal collectors need to look at what they are paying? Perhaps some forged makers are leaving $$ on the table. Don't know, a little confused, thus I started the thread.