Forged vs Stock Removal Knives

Larrin

Larrin

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Jan 17, 2004
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I’ve added my view on a longstanding debate: forging vs stock removal. I answered questions such as: Is all steel forged? What is the difference between “grain orientation” and “grains” in steel? Does forging lead to better strength or toughness? Which steels benefit the most from forging? What reasons are there to forge knives? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/07/22/forged-vs-stock-removal-knives/
 
The endless debate! Set back and enjoy the fun until the moderators get tired of the insults and heated debate and lock the thread.
 
I checked Kevin Cashen's article on forging after writing mine and I don't think I've said much that hasn't been said before. I am optimistic about the potential response.
 
I thought it was a very objective piece utilizing science, not myth.
Thanks for another good one, Larrin.
 
Very good write up. I knew it, I knew we should all be hand forging D2.

But all joking aside D2 seemed to show the most change in carbides with forged reduction. But I ask this as it seams to fallow your train of thought. When forging the edge bevel and especially the tip you can achieve a decent reduction ratio. This reduction is done in the areas that see the most use so to speak.
 
Each article I read I think "this is the best", but for sure this one is best {g}. A really good statement toward the end is "The best reason to forge a knife is because you want to."

I do have a question, the two videos showing "growth of two dimensional grain" and "Zener Pinning" - those are computer simulations? OR - is it possible it's actually taken of actual grain growth by some magical means?
 
Oh, don't get me wrong. I too feel like there is little if any advantage to forging knives. But, the guys who forge like to think their knives are superior so I just bite my tongue and move on. Been making knives for a long time just not so much anymore as my gunsmithing has taken most of my time now. This debate is older than the hills.
 
Ken H> said:
I do have a question, the two videos showing "growth of two dimensional grain" and "Zener Pinning" - those are computer simulations? OR - is it possible it's actually taken of actual grain growth by some magical means?
Click to expand...
They are computer simulations. It is possible to image grains "in-situ" through methods like "laser confocal microscopy" but it's relatively uncommon.
 
JTknives said:
Very good write up. I knew it, I knew we should all be hand forging D2.

But all joking aside D2 seemed to show the most change in carbides with forged reduction. But I ask this as it seams to fallow your train of thought. When forging the edge bevel and especially the tip you can achieve a decent reduction ratio. This reduction is done in the areas that see the most use so to speak.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, I've never seen any micrograph images to see. I do know that in the AEB-L/154CM micrograph (a lot of reduction due to forging in damascus), the carbides were still pretty large. So I think any reduction from forging by 50% or whatever is probably small.
AEB-L-154CM-damascus2.jpg
 
Thanks for another great article Larrin.

I've been told many times that many foundries, Bohler for example, laminate their steel sheets crossing 90 degrees in each pass to avoid developing bands, is this true? Does it help? Thanks

Pablo
 
PEU said:
Thanks for another great article Larrin.

I've been told many times that many foundries, Bohler for example, laminate their steel sheets crossing 90 degrees in each pass to avoid developing bands, is this true? Does it help? Thanks

Pablo
Click to expand...
Laminate wouldn't be the right word, it's called "cross rolling." Very rarely can steel be rolled 1:1 in both directions. The rolls would have to be incredibly wide for that to work. In some cases steel is rolled to a desired width prior to rolling out to length. Steel is produced either in coils or rectangular sheets, not squares.
 
Much of the forging lore comes from the automotive industry-where it was common knowledge that forged engine parts were stronger than cast.
VERY few knifemakers are casting knives, and the steel makers are using is already forged in the manufacturing process.
 
Great article as always, Larrin!

Cool insights, however, you do have to admit that "Forged in Fire" sounds a lot more romantic than "Ground to Dust"... :eek::D
 
JTknives said:
Very good write up. I knew it, I knew we should all be hand forging D2.

But all joking aside D2 seemed to show the most change in carbides with forged reduction. But I ask this as it seams to fallow your train of thought. When forging the edge bevel and especially the tip you can achieve a decent reduction ratio. This reduction is done in the areas that see the most use so to speak.
Click to expand...
Check this out

*Buys CPM D2

DONE :D:p
 
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