Forums and Success

Like some of the other posters in this thread, the old Kershaw sub-forum was my favorite part of BF. But whether or not there is an active sub-forum or not isn't as important as having a company rep who is active on BF.

My two favorite production knife companies right now are Kershaw and Spyderco (yikes!). The fact that you and Sal, et. al. actively participate here is an indication of your dedication to keeping in touch with this segment of the market.

Your presence here, IMHO, helps add to a positive perception of Kershaw's knives. Just as Sal and TazKristi's does for Spyderco. Positive word-of-mouth is a strong complement to all the other marketing efforts. That certainly helps in attracting new customers that are friends and acquaintances of BF members.

Anyway, thanks for being here Thomas.
 
Josh K said:
When you've never handled a Sebenza sure. :rolleyes: ;)
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Here is a picture of my Leek. Look at the excellent fit and finish here:

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This knife is exactly how people describe Sebenzas to be. It has an excellent frame lock-up. No blade play whatsoever, the tolerances are all very tight and it has a bank vault feel.

Plus with the assisted opening torsion bar I can flick it open lightning fast with one hand, using minimal effort. This leek is superb, maybe I just got the best one out of the entire batch, but something tells me quality like this is standard for Kershaw. If you held this leek in your own hand then you'd see what I mean, I just can't articulate the full extent of its awesomeness over the forum.
 
I've seen BF referenced on other forums such as EDC Forums, the High Road, and elsewhere.

Posts like - "Over at BladeForums they think very highly of the [knife name]".

So the impact of BF is not confined to our own membership and guests.

With that said, though, I'm not sure that posts on BF would affect as large a company as Kai and its various divisions.
Its excellent reputation is already established, and it has a substantial advertising and marketing presence as well.
 
James, Leeks are nice knives (plus the AO is :thumbup:). Sebenzas are even nicer. I've only briefly handled a Large Classic at Fanno Saw Works and own a Random Leek (no comparison, don't know if the Sebenza is $300 better, but is definitely a more finely crafted knife). But, its kind of like comparing a high-end Toyota to an S-Class Mercedes.
 
James0723 said:
If you held this leek in your own hand then you'd see what I mean, I just can't articulate the full extent of its awesomeness over the forum.
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I think I know what I'm talking about, having over 30 different Leeks in my collection. While the are excellent, specially for the price, you can not put them in the same class as CRK's. To create a valid argument you have to know what you're talking about. If you don't, you'll just make a fool of yourself. Handle a Sebenza first, create your own opinion, make your point. In that order. Otherwise your blunt statements have absolutely no validity. Do your homework.
 
Thanks for the input so far, let's not get off topic here fellas, it's all good.
 
I know that I would have never spent the money on Busses or Bark River Knives had I not read about them from many satisfied users on this forum and KnifeForums. Advertiser-generated sales copy doesn't speak to me NEARLY as much as reviews from fellow enthusiasts. The positive effect of this extends beyond just me, though, as once I find a knife I'm interested in, I talk about it to just about everyone I know (just ask anyone I know! :D) I've taken every Barkie I've gotten in to work to show a few others that appreciate them, and proselytized about the virtues of quality, sharp cutlery to the masses.

Having said all that, we might be talking about two different niches here... the "enthusiast" will spend a few hundred dollars on a knife, whereas the common person would never consider it. Your Busse knives are expensive, limited run items, so a small-scale but intimate marketing method (like a discussion forum) works well, but it probably wouldn't work as effectively for someone trying to get their knives into every sports shop across the country. Having said that, it probably doesn't hurt.

Different horses for different courses, I suppose.
 
Thomas,

I have not read all the posts, but what I got from Orthogonal's quote in your first post is this: There is a tangible benefit to having a Kershaw representative with power to make decisions interacting with the enthusiasts who love and purchase the products.

Kershaw forum or not, the fact that you come here and take the time to listen to what your avid customers want in a knife confers a benefit to Kershaw. Sal Glesser from Spyderco gains a similar benefit by interacting with us here.

The bottom line is that we all have a deep need to belong to something, and to be heard. When a maker of our favorite class of objects solicits and values our input, that makes us happy in a way that will eventually translate into a commercial benefit for the company. Advertising dollars have their place, but they do not generate the same advantage that respectful personal interaction can. It puts a face on the company. Even if it is DeNiro's face!

Bill

P.S. Word of mouth is the best advertising, because it is trusted, it is viral, and it spreads if it is true. Forums like BF are simply vectors to hasten the spread of news about knives and company policies. So when Kershaw warranties a Leek thrown at a tree, even though not obligated to, that becomes great advertising via word of mouth. When a company makes a great product at a fair price, word gets out, and when they listen to their potential and current customers, they gain credibility and also valuable feedback. So please stick around.

I first looked into Kershaw because the only knife knut I hang with told me it was his favorite brand. Valuing his opinion, I had to know more. When the G-10 Tyrade came available, I had to own one. It might not have happened if not for my friend planting the seed of trust.
 
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I think forum presence definitely helps as far as the forum demographic goes. I know it's convinced me a few times as far as which knife to buy next goes.

Something that helps even more: GIVEAWAYS. Just kidding (not really, I love giveaways).
 
I really liked the forum because I found out about special and sprint runs and would therefore budget for those upcoming models. I also would read reviews about regular offerings that would influence my buying decision. I like to give knives as gifts and the only kind I ever gift is Kershaw.
 
Thomas W said:
As the person responsible for sales & marketing for Kai USA, I'm curious with the post from another thread below. So not to derail the other thread, I'll start a new discussion here:



I'm hoping you could expand on what you mean, and for discussion purposes would like to hear how the members feel about forum presence(s), and success as mentioned above.

Thanks.
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If you dont have a forum presence it will not hurt you at all.

The forum presence is an opportunity that I believe Kershaw could gain from.

Short term gains by having people buy kershaw products after reading the great Cust Svc stories and quality reviews. They will also have a place to become entranced with kershaw products -again increasing short term sales. Having the assurance that Kershaw has your back as well as a place to talk about it will add to the sense of comunity. Sharing stories, etc. This sense of community will add the long term benefit of strengthening the Kershaw brand image.

Group think in the forums has been very favorable to Kershaw. The more everyone praises kershaw products the better it will be for kershaw.

What is the expense? -one persons wage to monitor the sub forum? I would say it is an opportunity well worth it.
 
James0723 said:
Here is a picture of my Leek. Look at the excellent fit and finish here:

image.aspx

This knife is exactly how people describe Sebenzas to be. It has an excellent frame lock-up. No blade play whatsoever, the tolerances are all very tight and it has a bank vault feel.

Plus with the assisted opening torsion bar I can flick it open lightning fast with one hand, using minimal effort. This leek is superb, maybe I just got the best one out of the entire batch, but something tells me quality like this is standard for Kershaw. If you held this leek in your own hand then you'd see what I mean, I just can't articulate the full extent of its awesomeness over the forum.
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This is why a sub forum would be great. After looking at this persons post I started reaching for my wallet.

If there was a whole sub forum of this -it would be chaos (in a good spending sense of the word)
 
Oh Noooo! (Mr. Bill quote) :).

The topic in the other thread had to do with popularity on the forum and for the brand in general in the community.

I think people get a kick out of a genuine factory representative, notably the founder of the company no less, chiming in once in a while. Makes it seem the conversations in the forums has some meaning.

Sal and Taz add a bit of "club" camaraderie. There is evidence of information moving back and forth. Interaction.

People are more likely to buy products from friends and feel good about the experience.

Having a sub-forum is beneficial as long there are enough people contributing to it. It gives people a place to discuss a brand they like and helps keep the enthusiasm going. A place for "newbies" to seek information.

Also an issue concerning popularity in the forums is the information about new models and current models. Sub-forums get this out more than topics being in one of the general forums.

Basic pysch.

Not sure where the "Kershaw Mafia" is hanging out these days, but the numbers probably get smaller with time. Like any club, a bit of mutual support is needed to maintain and grow. Look at the bali crowd - pretty limited despite a design that has many benefits.

As to brand success in the market place, 1 person tells 10, who each tell two, who each tell... Marketing 101. Forum presence sure ain't hurting sales - and probably helps with the $100+ knives. When people ask me, as I'm sure many other members are similarly asked, what knives they should consider buying, it is knives I have owned, own, or read about being good that I suggest.

I suspect getting your product into the "big box" stores has more to do with success, assuming the prices such stores demand don't break you, than presence on any amount of forums. Afterall, volume to Joe Average pretty much is the market for bigger makers. Smaller volume and higher price knife makers probably get more from forum presence.

Thomas, you show up every so often, which is a benefit.

I have wondered what would happen to the "Cold Steel hate" if Lynn Thompson showed up on the forums regularly and calmly clarified his position on some topics, such as "I moved production from Japan to Taiwan to China over the years for some models so that the cost to the end-line user would be within their budgetary restraints. -- Steel X has proven to perform satisfactory in our tests. -- We changed this to improve... This new model was designed by..., so no, it is not a copy" etc.
 
I'm not sure how many others have the same experience, but "out of sight, out of mind." My thoughts turned to Kershaw more when you were a constant presence here. Also, when the public is searching for your info on google, etc, links to the consistantly excellent reviews here may have been helpful to sales. I think these may be less frequent without a dedicated subforum here.

Come back, please.
 
One more thing to add. When I research a new knife I'll do it a few different ways... One of those ways being google. I know when i type in "(knife name) review", or something of the sort, many times one of the first five results will be from right here on BF. I think that many casual knife buyers that go to their local store and see a knife that they're interested in will go home that night and google it before they buy. Having a Kershaw sub forum multiplies the number of reviews, opinions, experiences that have to do with that item by untold numbers. Even if 1/8th(?) of the total opinions are negative, that still makes that many more positive experiences for that casual knife buyer to see and hopefully push him into making the decision to buy your product.

Not to mention, to us knife nuts, I think it really does make a big difference to have a representative listening to our concerns and feedback and keeping us involved in your business. For example: I was reading a thread of yours the other day that was asking what we thought about producing a composite ram and many people drew up designs and we all gave feedback on what we thought would make the best product...... You just cannot put a price on something like that.
 
Thomas W said:
As the person responsible for sales & marketing for Kai USA, I'm curious with the post from another thread below. So not to derail the other thread, I'll start a new discussion here:



I'm hoping you could expand on what you mean, and for discussion purposes would like to hear how the members feel about forum presence(s), and success as mentioned above.

Thanks.
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I really like that many of the industry folk are on the forums. You, Sal, and reps from other companies in their respective sub-forums show that this industry isn't too big to care about the end users. I can tell you that it has at least affected my purchases. For example, I wouldn't have purchased most of the limited run knives I have now because I just wouldn't have known about them (ie, my Ti/ZDP Leek). You guys get information out there.
 
I think a forum is a nice bonus, for both the consumers as well as the company itself. Maybe you want to make limited number of knives and see how they sell before you make the commitment to a full run (or a few full runs). So we benefit from having a "rare" knife and you benefit from not losing money (if it's a dud) or knowing people will buy it (if it's not).

That said, I've bought Kershaw before the forum was here, and I continue to buy them after the sub-forum left. I think many others are the same.
 
Having a presence on the forum is nice, but not having one in no way stops me from buying My Kershaws.

I may have to work harder at finding out about new runs, small "boutique" runs, etc. It won't stop me from buying knives I want. There are a bunch coming up that are must haves for me. I found out about them my own way, without the Kershaw subforum, and will continue doing so in the future.

So, It's a convience, but not necessessary IMO.
 
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