Forums and Success

Hi Thomas.

I can only speak from my own experience and observation.

I began to communicate on knife forums about 1999. There were some questions being discussed for which none knew the information. (What is an ELU? :eek:)

Now, 10 years later, we have found value in the forums and we participate in a few of them. But, in my opinion, that value will also be relative to the size of the company and their interest/involvement in knives....as well as their ability to respond to the requests of their customers.

I gain a great deal from the input that I receive from forumites. I find that their knowledge, especially in the areas where certain types of information(steel, geometries, ergos, etc) is not readily available, is valuable to me in my designing.

I also get an opportunity explain and discuss why we may have designed a particular feature the way we did. But this depth of information is only valuable to those few that study the "knife" to a greater level of depth.

I also am a firm believer in "What ever the problem, education is the solution". One's interest in "the edge" needs to be fed to grow and learning more about knives can be done effectively on forums.

It also requires that the person sharing this discussion has both the knowledge to respond and the social ability to handle the many issues thrown at them. I believe this is a unique ability. We are fortunate to have a few.

Fortunately for the Kershaw "mafia" :p, you're both; a knfie aficianado and you are able to keep your cool (I sometimes lose mine :o). You are also able to discuss in the realm of the depth often sought.

Personally, I think Kershaw gained by your forum. I don't think not having a forum will lose much, providing you continue to stay involved. It was not the private forum that made the difference, but your doing it.

You also had Ken's input, which was also a wealth of knowldege, which will no longer be as available. At this time, Kerhaw may have a few that can do it, (be a presence in the knife forums), but none that I've seen that can do it the way you do it. Knowing knife industry history is valuable and not common.

While we may disagree on many issues, Spyderco is honored to have companies the caliber of Kershaw to compete with. A "one car" race is less attractive for the participants, as well as the customer base.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Thomas.

I can only speak from my own experience and observation.

I began to communicate on knife forums about 1999. There were some questions being discussed for which none knew the information. (What is an ELU? :eek:)

Now, 10 years later, we have found value in the forums and we participate in a few of them. But, in my opinion, that value will also be relative to the size of the company and their interest/involvement in knives....as well as their ability to respond to the requests of their customers.

I gain a great deal from the input that I receive from forumites. I find that their knowledge, especially in the areas where certain types of information(steel, geometries, ergos, etc) is not readily available, is valuable to me in my designing.

I also get an opportunity explain and discuss why we may have designed a particular feature the way we did. But this depth of information is only valuable to those few that study the "knife" to a greater level of depth.

I also am a firm believer in "What ever the problem, education is the solution". One's interest in "the edge" needs to be fed to grow and learning more about knives can be done effectively on forums.

It also requires that the person sharing this discussion has both the knowledge to respond and the social ability to handle the many issues thrown at them. I believe this is a unique ability. We are fortunate to have a few.

Fortunately for the Kershaw "mafia" :p, you're both; a knfie aficianado and you are able to keep your cool (I sometimes lose mine :o). You are also able to discuss in the realm of the depth often sought.

Personally, I think Kershaw gained by your forum. I don't think not having a forum will lose much, providing you continue to stay involved. It was not the private forum that made the difference, but your doing it.

You also had Ken's input, which was also a wealth of knowldege, which will no longer be as available. At this time, Kerhaw may have a few that can do it, (be a presence in the knife forums), but none that I've seen that can do it the way you do it. Knowing knife industry history is valuable and not common.

While we may disagree on many issues, Spyderco is honored to have companies the caliber of Kershaw to compete with. A "one car" race is less attractive for the participants, as well as the customer base.

sal
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Nice post. :thumbup:
 
spiralarchitect said:
Nice post. :thumbup:
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Excellent post. Great insight, but as for the "bottom line", a Forum for Kershaw probably won't make much of a difference in the bigger scheme of things.

It may be valuable for specialty knives & such for "knifenuts" (Of which I consider myself), it enjoyable, but I suppose that while it's wanted, it's not needed.
 
Another 2 thumbs up for Sal's post. As a marketing agent for a company, I would strongly invest in the "BEST" Teflon Duck Suit money can buy when participating in BFC. Many knife enthusiasts are highly opinionated (myself included) and I think that one should tread with caution here.

I can recall an incident years back where I mixed it up with a prominent forum member/owner of a knife company where neither one of us "won" anything except a cold shoulder from the other for about 3-4 years. We've since reconciled, and he's changed some of his marketing. Whether or not that is because of a series of heated 'net discussions on a forum I don't know. Just remember the internet lives forever and the printed word with numerous readers, is alot different from the spoken word.

One last piece of advice, it's probably best to avoid the use of emoticons and NEVER, EVER use the jerkit smiley! :D
 
Nice to see Sal respond in the way he did, that was very classy!!!

Personally, I like to see formal representation on major knife forums. I realize it is resources on company time. However, it is also a communication line and serves for better purpose than a customer service representative hooked up to a telephone. Those people only respond to problems. On the forums, the benefit is it allows your company to demonstrate your ability to be good actors.

Admittedly, it takes a stiff upper lip to maintain decorum in the face of silliness and in any other setting facing what might even be considered libel. However, the anonymous nature of the internet, while testing the resolve of the honest and self identified, also brings with it the opportunity to demonstrate strength of character.

I also think that the forum members bring a resource to the company far outside of direct marketing potential. As Sal indicates, serious members are looking to contribute and will donate their time and provide input in very honest ways. Used correctly, the forum can provide a much better market survey for a subset of cutlery enthusiasts. This probably doesn't transcend all production lines, but it certainly should serve the discriminating markets well. Some individual makers take things a step further and provide passaround pieces that serve as both marketing vectors but also generate constructive input that can help refine products or ideas.

Engagement into the knife community is always going to be a good thing. The negativism's are by and large temporary and a company that behaves with honor and distinction receives the credit for doing so.

As for myself, I frequent blade forums daily. This place introduced me to my passionate hobby and I've met in person more friends with common interests in the past 2 years than I have in a decade. Would I buy a knife from a manufacture without a presence on the forums? Nope. The individual makers and manufacturers on the major forums cover all the bases on blades I'll ever need. Why would I risk buying from a company outside of my sphere of communication? I don't think a company necessarily has to have a devoted subforum. However, it is good PR to see when one exists and has a life a vibrancy to it. A dead forum is perhaps as bad as no forum. But it doesn't have to be that specific either. See a company rep. provide feedback in General knife discussion or other areas is always comforting to see. The only problem, is that type of activity is less visible to the broader membership and particularly to the new comers.
 
Excellent post Sal. These sorts of exchanges are what help make BF great. And help provide us end users with insights into the people behind the knives we enjoy.
 
I never posted on the Kershaw forum personally, but I frequently read the posts of others and learned a lot. I regret the loss of the Kershaw forum, but I do not believe it will hurt sales in the least. That being said, I am kinda disappointed that some companies do not have their own official forum the way Spyderco does. Will a forum attract new customers? Maybe a couple, certainly not many. But it does give your loyal customers who love your products an official place to discuss things, educate themselves, give feedback, find solutions to problems, post pictures, make new friends and enjoy the community. I believe it absolutely increases brand loyalty, and does in fact help sales. I personally use Spyderco as an example of what I'm talking about because I went to their website to find more info about a knife and stumbled upon their forum. Just like here, their official forums have so much information about their knives that it boggles the mind. you can find out anything about any knife they've ever made, and even if you come up with a question or problem the forum-dwellers cannot solve, TazKristi or Sal can chime in to help you out. In this day and age I find that absolutely amazing, and it has made me a diehard customer for life. Now I know many of you are thinking "aww thats all mushy and sweet or whatever, but whats that got to do with business?" Well, I went to their site to learn more about a knife I had bought (s30v native at wal-mart) and because of all the things I learned about their knives and the company itself, I've since bought 4 other models for myself, given 2 as gifts, and know of 6 others that were bought upon my recommendation. I can only imagine how many knives have been bought by the nearly 8000 forum members there or purchased upon their recommendations to friends or family. I do not think Kershaw will be hurt by not having a forum here(the presence of a strong following is much more important than a sub-forum), but I do think that having an official forum of some sort would be beneficial to both their customers as well as their bottom line. Will it dramatically affect sales? Absolutely not.
 
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For pete sake please...use your return key to create paragraphs...

Tried fixing it.
Sevorius said:
I never posted on the Kershaw forum personally, but I frequently read the posts of others and learned a lot. I regret the loss of the Kershaw forum, but I do not believe it will hurt sales in the least.

That being said, I am kinda disappointed that some companies do not have their own official forum the way Spyderco does.

Will a forum attract new customers? Maybe a couple, certainly not many. But it does give your loyal customers who love your products an official place to discuss things, educate themselves, give feedback, find solutions to problems, post pictures, make new friends and enjoy the community. I believe it absolutely increases brand loyalty, and does in fact help sales.

I personally use Spyderco as an example of what I'm talking about because I went to their website to find more info about a knife and stumbled upon their forum. Just like here, their official forums have so much information about their knives that it boggles the mind.

you can find out anything about any knife they've ever made, and even if you come up with a question or problem the forum-dwellers cannot solve, TazKristi or Sal can chime in to help you out. In this day and age I find that absolutely amazing, and it has made me a diehard customer for life.

Now I know many of you are thinking "aww thats all mushy and sweet or whatever, but whats that got to do with business?" Well, I went to their site to learn more about a knife I had bought (s30v native at wal-mart) and because of all the things I learned about their knives and the company itself, I've since bought 4 other models for myself, given 2 as gifts, and know of 6 others that were bought upon my recommendation.

I can only imagine how many knives have been bought by the nearly 8000 forum members there or purchased upon their recommendations to friends or family.

I do not think Kershaw will be hurt by not having a forum here(the presence of a strong following is much more important than a sub-forum), but I do think that having an official forum of some sort would be beneficial to both their customers as well as their bottom line. Will it dramatically affect sales? Absolutely not.
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Rant off.
 
I think that there is value in a forum presence, but probably more as a two way street. It would be a great research tool to find out how your product works in the hands of several different kinds of users that have many different requirements of their knives. To have a battalion of of knife nuts that don't use their knives to cut sheetmetal, bolts, cinder blocks, punch through car fenders etc. would be a great thing. Using a knife as a cutting tool as designed and reporting back results directly to the manufacturer would certainly be valuable.

On the other hand, as a fan of one knife manufacturer or another, it is nice to be able to go to a certain place to get information on upcoming models, personal experiences on customer relation/warranty issues, and maintenance tips specific to a certain model. It is also a great place to get information on personal usage experience, and for "field repair" issues.

All that being said, it is surprising how few people know anything about any knife forums. NONE of the knife makers or dealers (literally NONE) participate in any forums about knives. They all said the same thing; too much noise to signal ratio. Too many fanboys that love their favorite manufacturer and won't listen to one word about another. Too much bad behavior from fanboys with hurt feelings.

Depending on where you are on this site, that simply isn't true. There is a lot of meaningful discussion here, especially among the makers and WSS forums. The generosity of the makers in teaching and problem solving here is just amazing.

However, that isn't Kershaw country, is it?

I think that the relatively small market of Kershaw folks this reaches would have almost no market impact. How many people would buy a knife simply because of a good review here? One or two a day? Three or four a day? I don't believe that would impact Kershaw's bottom line much. Remember they are an international concern, and their English speaking, forum specific members probably make up a tiny, tiny, aspect of their global campaigns.

That all being said, I love my Kershaw knives, and it has influenced which models I bought. But I liked and used Kershaw knives many years before I found this place.

But I did get a kick out of seeing folks use the exact models I had in the field, or seeing how they modified them to suit their needs. With that in mind, the Kershaw forum here is certainly missed.

Robert
 
Thomas, I very much like forum presence by company rep's. Many great designs, I believe, were initiated by feedback of forum members on these boards.

This combined with the fact that you look like one of my favorite actors is a positive for me.

Vinny
 
Kershaw has a strong prescense on BF because of user satisfaction (product quality w/price in mind), customer support, and above average representation. :thumbup: I have seen some of the Kershaw peoples being bashed and pooped on by rogue forumites, and Kershaw's people always handle it with class, dignity, and more grace that I would have given the said rogue forumite.:thumbdn: Note that I have not mentioned the mafia influence.:p Kershaw will pass any test of time that the poster, that Thomas W refered to, in his original post, may want to present.
 
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midnight flyer said:
All that being said, it is surprising how few people know anything about any knife forums. NONE of the knife makers or dealers (literally NONE) participate in any forums about knives. They all said the same thing;........
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I must have missed something or am interpreting this statement wrong since this forum and others are full of interested custom and production makers participating on a daily basis and the following paragraph refutes the statement. Was this a quote from another poster?

Who are you referring to that all said the same thing?
 
my 2 cents: I was recommending BF to a buddy the other day and found that one of the first things out of my mouth was how awesome it was to see posts by Thomas and Sal. I agree with whoever above said that we all enjoy feeling like we are part of something, and it gives our enthusiasm a kick when heavyweights chime in. It can't be a complete coincidence that that same buddy now has pockets full of Kershaw and Spyderco. Then again, if they weren't such awesome dependable products then it probably wouldn't matter.

I, for one, get a real kick out of seeing you guys around here and I hope you keep it up. It could be coincidence, but my 8 Kershaws and 6 Spydies vs 2 Benchmade's might reflect that fact. :thumbup::thumbup:
 
dextersp1 said:
I think a forum discussion can go either way - help or hurt the company. I tend to think it leans to hurt a company. Most posts about a particular product are about problems. Look at the thread about "Why no Gerber Love?"

Here it is a bit different because people here are knife lovers and they are simple objects with not much that can go wrong with them.
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I think it depends on the quality of the brand. If the the brand is superb and people are already buying, then you may have a ceiling effect and the only impact a forum can have is negative. It's possible that this is the Kershaw strategy.
 
Thanks everyone for the encouraging words and well thought out responses. I really do appreciate them. :thumbup:
 
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