Forums and Success

Ramm9 said:
I must have missed something or am interpreting this statement wrong since this forum and others are full of interested custom and production makers participating on a daily basis and the following paragraph refutes the statement. Was this a quote from another poster?

Who are you referring to that all said the same thing?
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Nope... I simply blew that all to hell and back. Thanks for the opportunity to correct that dumb statement. Too tired and at the keyboard once again.

What I meant to say was that none of the local makers and vendors I personally know, go to any of the forums to read or participate. Certainly that didn't pertain to the fine folks here!

But the local makers and vendors, those within 100 miles of San Antonio that I have met just don't frequent forums. Some know about the different forums, but none seem to care. I see them regularly at sport expositions and the 1 - 2 times a month gun shows we have here.

The point I was trying to make was that while there are a lot of interested and dedicated members of the knife loving community here, there are many more times that many out there that have no knowledge of these venues. Good or bad information in a forum or forum presence means nothing to them.

I am glad no one took offense. The makers, vendors and craftsmen I have seen that participate regularly on this forum all seem to be great guys.

And like I said earlier, I think the time and effort spent by the makers here to further and teach their craft is amazing.

Thanks for the catch!

Robert
 
2bkc said:
When you refer to vendors, do you mean people like me? Dealers.
Just curious.
Jason
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Since I put my foot in my mouth before, I am reading and writing more carefully. Keep in mind I will be referring to my whole post to keep my thoughts in context, not just one sentence.

So with that in mind I will quote my own post and point out the salient details.

From my earlier post: "What I meant to say was that none of the local makers and vendors I personally know, go to any of the forums to read or participate."

I do not know you, personally, nor to my knowledge have I ever met you. I am sure it would be a pleasure to do so, but I haven't done it yet. So in this case, I do not mean you.

2bkc said:
When you refer to vendors, do you mean people like me? Dealers.
Just curious.
Jason
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I don't know how you classify or label yourself. When at a gun show, boat show, camping gear show, real estate show, woodworking and tool show etc., etc., those that are there at booths and tables selling their products are referred to as vendors. I only know and speak in this specific case of the fine crew that I have met at our "local" gun show. I don't know the difference between a vendor or a dealer as pertains to the knife world, so I will have to stick with the first response since we have never met to plead ignorance. But if you simply consider yourself a "dealer", my post obviously doesn't pertain to you.

And the last point would be "within 100 miles of San Antonio ". I don't know where you live, so again, I will fall back on my first response of having never personally met you to disqualify that as a pertinent point of conversation on my part.

I was after all, careful to point out that the folks I was referring to in my post were people that I had personally know, not internet friends, not guys that knew guys that told me, or such. I wanted to make sure my post reflected my own personal experience.

After making a mess of my other post, you can tell I am being careful. No flame wars wanted or needed over my obvious lack of focus.

But in the end, you still might have to decide for yourself if the shoe fits.

- I have never personally met you
- I don't know if you consider yourself a vendor as well as dealer
- I don't know where you live, so you may or may not be withing 100 miles of me

So your call on whether I meant people like you. What say you?

Robert
 
2bkc has a website, a dealer account on bladeforums, and is located in Lockhart. I don't think he was making a distinction between vendors and dealers as defined, but between different vendors at a show. Everyone with a table is a vendor, but some are dealers and some are makers. I could be wrong.
 
hardheart said:
2bkc has a website, a dealer account on bladeforums, and is located in Lockhart. I don't think he was making a distinction between vendors and dealers as defined, but between different vendors at a show. Everyone with a table is a vendor, but some are dealers and some are makers. I could be wrong.
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Thank you.
That is exactly what I meant.
 
I believe their are many dealers that frequent the forums as well as employees of larger distributors. It's just good business.

I'm sure that Robert was offering some personal experience, not tring to create a problem. Probably wise not to let it high-jack Thomas' inquiry. :)

I might add that I too, am interested in response to Thomas' question.

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
I'm sure that Robert was offering some personal experience, not tring to create a problem. Probably wise not to let it high-jack Thomas' inquiry. :)

sal
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Thanks, Sal. You are exactly right. I always try to use the words "mine", "my", "personally" to highlight the fact that that I am simply relating my personal experience or opinion.

While new to this venue, I have several thousand of posts behind me in my area of work, cabinetry and remodeling. Over the years I have found it important to make sure folks know you are expressing your opinion.

And since you are here Sal, I want to say that if not for this forum, I would not have known about the Tenacious. That knife put me back on Spyderco. So one for the forums, eh? The ancillary effect is that I have recommended that knife to a few of my cohorts and they have likewise been thrilled with it, and encouraged to buy more Spyderco products.

But in line with Thomas' OP, I don't know how much difference sites like this make except to loyal fans. I know it hasn't meant much of anything on my tool/woodworking forums, as they have simply become fan sites, or sites to trash certain products.

As an anecdotal comment pertaining to this site, I have found no one outside of this site that has the unbridled distaste for Ontario that the folks here do. Not even the actual RAT guys!

I have bought five different knives from a dealer I hooked up with that frequents this site. He is a great guy, loves knives, uses his knives, and is passing the knife culture onto his kids. He says he is probably Ontario's largest online dealer. Getting to know this guy over the past few months (you get to know them better when they become problems solvers for you!) I have no doubt he speaks the truth.

I am not speaking for the RAT guys, nor do I know them. However, he does. He met with them at the last SHOT show, and thinks a lot of them. He also thinks a lot of the Ontario guys. So second hand, I can tell you that he says that Mike and Jeff are "over it", and want to move on from the controversy. And if you go to their forum on this site, you can find remarks from Jeff that indicate they certainly are.

One of the knives I purchased from DEALER X was an Ontario RAT 7 in D2. The quality was amazing, the steel was tougher than I ever imagined, the blade finish is extra tough, and there were no steel problems at all that many here relate to D2. At a closeout price, it was a steal and a half.

But even in responding to questions about D2 steel here, I never use the word "Ontario". I wouldn't ever review this knife, even though it is a clear winner. Great design from Mike and Jeff, and great execution from Ontario. Yet any reference to Ontario always elicits nasty replies, or on a good day simply falls flat. The forest is missed because of the trees.

But my buddies liked the RAT 7 enough that I helped them buy a RAT 7 and a RAT 5, both in D2 from the vendor. Word of mouth (mine) was much more powerful in person that the written words on a forum. They are thrilled with their knives and unconcerned about forum politics.

Yet in regards to the folks that spend a lot of energy getting the word out on how negative they feel about the issue, how do they affect the knife community one way or another? How much sway does this community or any other forum have on the general populace? My friends and associates know nothing of the RC/RAT controversy and don't care. Not being knife nuts, but simply wanting a good blade, I can assure you they don't care either all the static in the background.

I think all of the manufacturer forums, sites and blogs have their place no matter what the subject or product. But it seems to me the community they serve the best is the true enthusiasts. I love the knife forums because they feed my interest of steels, new models, news from my favorite manufacturers, and information on specific models of their products. I love 'em, my personal belief is that they don't affect the rest of the population much one way or another.

I must say though... a Kershaw forum was mighty nice.

Just to make sure, this is just my 0.02.

OK... maybe it was a nickel. :)

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
What I meant to say was that none of the local makers and vendors I personally know, go to any of the forums to read or participate. Certainly that didn't pertain to the fine folks here!
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Suspected as much and you went the extra mile explaining yourself!


Sal Glesser said:
I might add that I too, am interested in response to Thomas' question.
sal
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Thinking about it, I've got to admit that I don't think I ever visited the Kershaw Forum so when it closed I heard more about Kershaw than ever before.
 
I used to be in the hi-fi audio equipment market, and an active participant of the forums. It really does work as free advertising, I got a steady stream of regular customers that kept returning for more, so I never had to spend any money advertising. It's a small business, for large businesses the vast majority of customers would be retail so this may not apply to Kai. However, I have no doubt in my mind that it helped Busse knives.

That said, your "boost from forum presence" would depend on how classy the company representative is. Argumentative representatives who dodge honest questions and insult their customers need not apply.
 
I don't know why Kershaw closed down their subforum but I was extremly dissapointed.

I liked being a part of new products, suggestions and sprint runs.

I still like Kershaws but now new knives come out that I never even heard about.

Been buying more Spyderco lately due to the forum presence.

Will KAI sales be hurt? probably not will I buy less KAI? definatly.
 
spiralarchitect said:
Forums and forum related outreach only gets you so far with so many folks. The real way to get the word out on the street is to put a high quality, low priced product in front of the masses where they shop. Kershaw and it's marketing staff seem to be doing a fine job of that.

What you have to realize is that on all of the knife related forums are the same guys (read: us). Don't believe me? Join a few more. All the same guys. You can't expect to build your marketing approach on the backs of the same few thousand people.

As to the quoted portion in ThomasW's post: It has been a while since Kershaw has had a forum here..... they seem to be doing just fine.... even in this crappy economy. They have marketing agreements with UFC fighters, Pro Bull Riders, Wally World, national and regional big box stores, sporting goods stores. I suspect that marketing approach reaches a few more folks than the x-number thousand forumites that make up our little knife world.
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Well said. You read my mind.
 
cotdt said:
That said, your "boost from forum presence" would depend on how classy the company representative is. Argumentative representatives who dodge honest questions and insult their customers need not apply.
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So what you're saying is a company would have "less than a boost" if its forum representative is/was a classless, insulting figure to his/her customers, and whom is also unwilling to answer honest and direct questions from it's base?

What?...I'm learning here...:)
 
Thomas W said:
So what you're saying is a company would have "less than a boost" if its forum representative is/was a classless, insulting figure to his/her customers, and whom is also unwilling to answer honest and direct questions from it's base?

What?...I'm learning here...:)
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Yes it's true. You'd be surprised. :D
 
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