Frame lock compared to back lock

I think most lock types will do fine for most tasks, but I'll avoid certain knives for certain tasks. For instance, I won't use a knife with a thin liner lock to carve at wood. I've found that a framelock bar can slip sometimes when cutting cardboard and twisting when not cutting in a straight line. Backlocks can be a pain when working in an environment where dirt ends up getting into the knife. There are certainly examples of knives with those lock types that won't be an issue in those situations though (thicker liner, proper contour on framelock bar scale, tighter fit on lockback parts). In the end, if I want a knife I don't have to worry about beyond where I aim the edge I'll use a fixed blade.
 
They are both very strong a locks. Unless you send it to cold steel so they can hang 800 pounds on it it is highly unlikely he that you would do anything to break either lot. If you like fidgeting and playing with your knife the back lot is not for you. It also depends on the stiffness and ease of your thumb reaching the lock some frame locks like ZT
Are very stiff and other locks such as the Spyderco domino are easier to manipulate because they're not as stiff. As far as durability I've never had either fail on me. Bottom line it depends on each individual knife they all have different character.
 
I forgot to mention that if you decide on a backlock the way to go would be cold steel. It is the strongest backlock there is. I have a cold steel code 4 and I have pretty much beat the crap out of it and no up-and-down or side to side movement at all. I have batoned and pryed with it and it still in great shape.
 
Another vote for a frame lock/liner lock with the exception of early/late lock up, strength of the frame/liner. In a quality knife with good fit and finish and good materials I believe the frame/liner lock will out preform back locks. My granddaughter bought me a cheap M-TEC for Christmas one year that had a liner lock. The material was so soft it bent out of the way allowing the blade to close with very minimal pressure.
 
tri-ad is a backlock with a stop pin. the strongest lock out there. axis close maybe the same. give or take 100 extra lbs here or there. normal backlocks, well made, are very very strong. far stronger than the best framelock.

well made liner locks are as strong as a well made frame lock. michael walker made a lock basically in a way a frame lock earlier than his liner lock, pretty sure i read that from a credible article. i do remember he tested his liner lock and it did very well, better than an example of a backlock in that era. its all proper design and geometry of liners that make them work very well or not.

people develop opinions on locks from poorly made ones and or poor knife handling useage.

no lock design or type is bad or is dangerous. only poorly made ones and people using poor handling while using.
 
I think the whole "grip reinforces a frame lock" is a way over played. Certain frame locks this may be the case but not all. You really have to hold the knife and make a judgement on how your fingers/hand contact the lock bar. Some knives I found in my grip the only thing touching the lock bar was a little *pooch* of finger flesh. I've also tested a few frame locks to get them to slip and the lock bar simply pushes into your flesh allowing the blade to release. We're talking about fleshy human hands. How far can you push into your flesh? More than enough for a lock bar to clear a tang. Now you can hold your knife so that your hand/fingers are really pressing on the lock bar but who uses a knife white-knuckling it the entire time?

That being said both back locks and frame locks are good enough for me. Currently I'm more into back locks but that's because my newest knife is a back lock.
 
Depending on how you use your knife it might not matter, but if you had to hold the knife and someone had to hammer it towards your fingers I would pick backlock and preferably a tri-ad backlock any day of the week. They're simply the strongest type of lock there is.

But honestly if you like the design of a knife and it has a framelock I wouldn't decide against it just because of that. For the vast majority of use cases you don't need the strength of backlocks at all.
 
Too bad balisongs are illegal in a lot of places including my country of residence.
Also balisong blades are generally too long and not wide enough for my liking.
 
kniferbro said:
I've also tested a few frame locks to get them to slip and the lock bar simply pushes into your flesh allowing the blade to release. We're talking about fleshy human hands. How far can you push into your flesh?
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I tested it with weight hanging from a blade that slipped without grip pressure (cheap Chinese steel frame-lock).
My grip made it work, where before it was in essence a really weak slip-joint.

It is possible that I just have extra awesome flesh though. ;)
 
jbmonkey said:
tri-ad is a backlock with a stop pin. the strongest lock out there. axis close maybe the same. give or take 100 extra lbs here or there. normal backlocks, well made, are very very strong. far stronger than the best framelock.

well made liner locks are as strong as a well made frame lock. michael walker made a lock basically in a way a frame lock earlier than his liner lock, pretty sure i read that from a credible article. i do remember he tested his liner lock and it did very well, better than an example of a backlock in that era. its all proper design and geometry of liners that make them work very well or not.

people develop opinions on locks from poorly made ones and or poor knife handling useage.

no lock design or type is bad or is dangerous. only poorly made ones and people using poor handling while using.
Click to expand...
Why was it micheal Walker's liner lock ?
 
stabman said:
I tested it with weight hanging from a blade that slipped without grip pressure (cheap Chinese steel frame-lock).
My grip made it work, where before it was in essence a really weak slip-joint.

It is possible that I just have extra awesome flesh though. ;)
Click to expand...
There are definitely knives that the grip reinforces the lock no doubt. I just think there are a lot of frame locks that don't do this and the common consensus is that any frame lock will. It should be looked at on a knife by knife basis IMO.

But you probably do just have extra awesome flesh, hardened from a life of fighting crime no doubt! :D
 
I have seen many contrived and unreal tests of lock strengths. Hanging weights from handles is not a practical use of the knife. When is a knife ever used this way, without hands? Should knife lock strengths not be tested in the way a knife is used? How about testing with a full sword grip, with a hammer grip, with a reverse grip, etc?

I have said this before on the forums: Blade locks, whatever type, can be made well or poorly. If you use a knife the correct way, and don't use it like an axe or some other stupid use, then a well designed lock, of any type, should be good enough for knife uses.

If you want to select between frame locks and back locks for ultimate strength, then to me it seems to be 50/50. It depends on the amount of material used, the geometry of the lock, and the carelessness of the user. Mistakes happen and that is what a knife lock is there for, when you make a mistake. A slip joint is perfectly safe is used correctly. A back lock or even a Triad lock can fail if too much lint gets into the mechanism. A frame lock is basically self cleaning.
 
Another vote for the back lock. I had a framelock close on my index finger last summer while doing yard work. Cut me all the way to the bone. It sucked. While I believe that the framelock that failed on me was an anomaly (poorly designed), I can't help but have a distrust for them now.

Lock back all the way. I'm more of a slip joint/traditional guy anyways. But my modern, "hard use" folder (that really very rarely gets used or carried) is a Cold Steel with their TriAD lock, which I trust.

Just my $.02.
 
Fire Beard said:
Another vote for the back lock. I had a framelock close on my index finger last summer while doing yard work. Cut me all the way to the bone. It sucked. While I believe that the framelock that failed on me was an anomaly (poorly designed), I can't help but have a distrust for them now.

Lock back all the way. I'm more of a slip joint/traditional guy anyways. But my modern, "hard use" folder (that really very rarely gets used or carried) is a Cold Steel with their TriAD lock, which I trust.
Click to expand...

Yep can understand why you'd react to frame locks after that. Do you mind describing the details under which the frame lock failed? What was the brand and model, how were you using it, what caused the failure (did the lock disengage)?
 
Hickory n steel said:
You said Micheal walker had sort of made a frame lock before his liner lock, are you not saying he invited the liner lock ?
Click to expand...
nope. he made the liner lock in 1980 something as known today when done right of course. i rwad a credinle article on he made an earlier version kinda like a frame lock for a lack of a better description. somehow he went forward with the liner lock version instead of a frame like version.

there is a great article on this....that covers a lot of what im saying....
http://www.knife-expert.com/liners.txt
 
Aldebaran said:
I have seen many contrived and unreal tests of lock strengths. Hanging weights from handles is not a practical use of the knife. When is a knife ever used this way, without hands? Should knife lock strengths not be tested in the way a knife is used? How about testing with a full sword grip, with a hammer grip, with a reverse grip, etc?

I have said this before on the forums: Blade locks, whatever type, can be made well or poorly. If you use a knife the correct way, and don't use it like an axe or some other stupid use, then a well designed lock, of any type, should be good enough for knife uses.

If you want to select between frame locks and back locks for ultimate strength, then to me it seems to be 50/50. It depends on the amount of material used, the geometry of the lock, and the carelessness of the user. Mistakes happen and that is what a knife lock is there for, when you make a mistake. A slip joint is perfectly safe is used correctly. A back lock or even a Triad lock can fail if too much lint gets into the mechanism. A frame lock is basically self cleaning.
Click to expand...

I think at this point, it's safe to conclude a few consensus points:
  • Strength is an important lock factor. But it can be measured different ways (some contrived, some more real-world).
    • For typical modern EDC knife tasks, well executed locks of several types can be "strong enough" (that was Cliff Stamp's point).
  • Reliability is another important lock factor. Maybe it's strong, but will it fail or disengage on you under certain conditions, such as getting dirt in the mechanism, or a spring or part breaks, or you grip the knife "wrong"?
  • Usability is an important factor. So it's strong, and reliable. But is it hard to use? Does the lock stick? Is it hard to open or close one-handed? Is the open or close process risky due to the lock design?
  • Maintainability is an important factor. Does the lock mechanism need to be adjusted a lot? Does it easily accumulate dirt requiring it to be cleaned more often in order to remain reliable? Is it HARD to clean when you have to clean it?
When I take all these factors into account, and I assume that I use a well designed quality lock, and I'm using the knife for typical modern EDC tasks (not batoning it, etc.), then strength becomes (for me) not the only or even most important factor. When I look at strength that is good enough for EDC tasks, and then I also consider reliability, usability, and maintainability, some of the modern lock designs like say the Spyderco compression lock, or the modern frame lock like on ZT or Chris Reeve knives, seem like appealing options. On the other hand, if I were going to be doing super extreme things with a folder (which again, I don't because I don't trust folders for that kind of work), then as others have said, I'd probably find a strong back lock like a Cold Steel with a triad lock, and there, the key thing would be to keep that complex internal mechanism super clean, so that it stays reliable.
 
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