Frame lock failure?

[mycough]

Wow............. Russ

 

[Krissig12]

I'm loosing IQ points

Time to step out of General dee for a little while

 

[PURPLEDC]

If my lock failed after dropping it three feet to concrete i would stop dropping my knife on concrete and start worrying about what it will do AS A KNIFE.

Stop with this "spine as a hammer" nonsense.

No one's faulting framelocks for failing when violent, destructive, spinewhacks are involved, and those that do are quickly called out on it.

Prying a blade free from wood puts force on the blade similar to constant pressure on the spine.

A situation where you accidentally bump something with your blade is another scenario where disengagement is an issue.

If a knife falls three feet and the lock disengages I wouldn't trust that knife to do heavier tasks.

Note that most of your beefs with "lock failure" all curiously seem to happen when the knife isnt being held or used as a knife. "what? Your lock failed after you threw it off a ten story building on to concrete with a lit stick of dynamite strapped to it? What a defective piece of crap."

 

[Geneo]

Just want to say, before this thread gets locked, that I bet I could make any folder's lock fail.
If you are doing something like hacking wood in such a manner that the blade would get wedged, you really should be using a fixed blade.

Ironic observation: these lock failing threads always seem to result in an undefeatable lock.

 

[asdf12345]

Note that most of your beefs with "lock failure" all curiously seem to happen when the knife isnt being held or used as a knife. "what? Your lock failed after you threw it off a ten story building on to concrete with a lit stick of dynamite strapped to it? What a defective piece of crap."

But see, if you had thrown it off a ten story building, that would be a different story entirely. We're talking about an impact at maybe 1 meter per second at the most, with no extra force being applied to the blade or the frame other than the impact itself.

I would like to think that if force is applied to the lock, the lock doesn't care what the knife is being used for.

One exception would be my amazing Kershaw Thermite - when I pressed the spine to test the lock it disengaged every time on purpose, because it sensed that I was not using it for cutting. But guess what, when I went to baton it through a couple of small trees, the knife knew that I was using it for cutting, and prevented itself from failing, even though the forces on the blade were much greater. Yep, that knife knows & cares what it's being used for.

 

[yoda4561]

tape the edge, put some leather gloves on, and try to replicate the lock failure in a way that could concievably cause you problems. Any liner/frame/backlock/axis/etc lock can fail given the right amount of momentum in the wrong direction.

 

[pinecraft]

I saw a rat 1 abuse video buy a Russian man, the amount of abuse it took to make it fail was amazing to me. So if a four foot drop causes a fail I tend to think something is not OK with that knife.

 

[PURPLEDC]

But see, if you had thrown it off a ten story building, that would be a different story entirely. We're talking about an impact at maybe 1 meter per second at the most, with no extra force being applied to the blade or the frame other than the impact itself.

I would like to think that if force is applied to the lock, the lock doesn't care what the knife is being used for.

One exception would be my amazing Kershaw Thermite - when I pressed the spine to test the lock it disengaged every time on purpose, because it sensed that I was not using it for cutting. But guess what, when I went to baton it through a couple of small trees, the knife knew that I was using it for cutting, and prevented itself from failing, even though the forces on the blade were much greater. Yep, that knife knows & cares what it's being used for.

go look up the word shock and then look up how it relates to mechanisms such as knife locks. It would not be different. One example is more extreme than the other but the fundemental principle is still the same. You are exposing the knife to conditions it was not designed for and then chastising it for failing. a lock is designed to keep the blade open, this is true. But e part you just cant get your head around is that rule only applies when the knife is on your hand being used as a knife. Dropping an open knife and it closing on impact is the least of your worries in that situation. If the knife was in the hand being held properly i highly doubt te same result would be had. You consistently expect knives to do things they arent designed to do. Sorry man but sometimes its the user that is defective in their expectations and their logic or lack thereof for feeling that way.

I saw a rat 1 abuse video buy a Russian man, the amount of abuse it took to make it fail was amazing to me. So if a four foot drop causes a fail I tend to think something is not OK with that knife.

Unless he was dropping the knife open from waist high on concrete then are no parallels. I have had many knives close when dropped on a hard surface. They are not designed to stay open after an impact with no hand on the knife. Why is it so hard for people to accept that knives are cutting tools designed to be held by the human hand. Why people feel that it makes sense to measure the worth of something based on conditions it was never intended to be subjected to makes no sense. "Hey john did you get your wife that new blender she wanted?" "Yeah but i returned it because i tried bowling with it and couldnt even pick up a spare."

 

[asdf12345]

go look up the word shock and then look up how it relates to mechanisms such as knife locks. It would not be different. One example is more extreme than the other but the fundemental principle is still the same. You are exposing the knife to conditions it was not designed for and then chastising it for failing. a lock is designed to keep the blade open, this is true. But e part you just cant get your head around is that rule only applies when the knife is on your hand being used as a knife. Dropping an open knife and it closing on impact is the least of your worries in that situation. If the knife was in the hand being held properly i highly doubt te same result would be had. You consistently expect knives to do things they arent designed to do. Sorry man but sometimes its the user that is defective in their expectations and their logic or lack thereof for feeling that way.

Sorry, I must have gotten mixed up. Of course a knife lock doesn't experience shock when it's being used to cut or chop. I also forgot that shock isn't a condition a knife lock is designed for or should be expected to withstand. I won't make that mistake again.

If I relax my grip on the lockbar while cutting and the lock closes on me, then I must be a defective user. Thank you for letting me know. I'll remember that the knife is not the one at fault, and I am so sorry for my illogical expectation that a knife lock should work outside of very specific and controlled circumstances.

I mean, why have a lock at all, am I right?

 

[bleedingfinger]

I am not chastising the lock. I never complained that it disengaged. I guess I should have just asked this...
Are frame locks more susceptible to failure from impact?
I didn't throw my knife to test it. There is no user "lack of logic".... It's called making a mistake or having an accident.
I moved something that pushed my knife off the table. No 10 story buildings. No dynamite.
No beating my knife. It fell a few feet onto stone floor and disengaged.
I can go duplicate this hundreds of times with my $25 tri ad lock knife and it won't fail.
So it made me question frame locks as this is my first.

 

[PURPLEDC]

Sorry, I must have gotten mixed up. Of course a knife lock doesn't experience shock when it's being used to cut or chop. I also forgot that shock isn't a condition a knife lock is designed for or should be expected to withstand. I won't make that mistake again.

If I relax my grip on the lockbar while cutting and the lock closes on me, then I must be a defective user. Thank you for letting me know. I'll remember that the knife is not the one at fault, and I am so sorry for my illogical expectation that a knife lock should work outside of very specific and controlled circumstances.

I mean, why have a lock at all, am I right?

No amount of sarcasm will equal intelligence. You are contantly snarky and taking things completely out of context to try and make a valid point. The problem is you need validity to start with to make the sarcasm effective.

I am not chastising the lock. I never complained that it disengaged. I guess I should have just asked this...
Are frame locks more susceptible to failure from impact?
I didn't throw my knife to test it. There is no user "lack of logic".... It's called making a mistake or having an accident.
I moved something that pushed my knife off the table. No 10 story buildings. No dynamite.
No beating my knife. It fell a few feet onto stone floor and disengaged.
I can go duplicate this hundreds of times with my $25 tri ad lock knife and it won't fail.
So it made me question frame locks as this is my first.

No worries man i wasnt directing my comments at you. I was merely borrowing the circumstances. To answer your question yes a frame or liner lock is more prone to failure during shock. Especially a frame lock as your grip is part of its effectiveness as a lock. And with so many wanting as early of lockup as possible its a further compromise. The frame lock was never toted as the end all be all in folding knife locks. If you want that axis and triad locks are the ticket.

 

[pinecraft]

I am not chastising the lock. I never complained that it disengaged. I guess I should have just asked this...
Are frame locks more susceptible to failure from impact?
I didn't throw my knife to test it. There is no user "lack of logic".... It's called making a mistake or having an accident.
I moved something that pushed my knife off the table. No 10 story buildings. No dynamite.
No beating my knife. It fell a few feet onto stone floor and disengaged.
I can go duplicate this hundreds of times with my $25 tri ad lock knife and it won't fail.
So it made me question frame locks as this is my first.

Phil Elmore had a series of tests and info on the different lock mechinisms of knives.

 

[asdf12345]

No amount of sarcasm will equal intelligence. You are contantly snarky and taking things completely out of context to try and make a valid point. The problem is you need validity to start with to make the sarcasm effective.

Are you kidding me? I'm agreeing with you a hundred percent. Looking back, I realize that in all my use of knives I have never, not once, relaxed my grip on the lockbar of a knife while using it. Not only that, but it's actually impossible to relax your grip on the lockbar; that is, if you're not one of those stupid "defective users". Those pesky defective users and their lack of logic, right?

"Hey john did you get your wife that new blender she wanted?" "Yeah but i returned it because i tried bowling with it and couldnt even pick up a spare."

"what? Your lock failed after you threw it off a ten story building on to concrete with a lit stick of dynamite strapped to it? What a defective piece of crap."

No amount of irrelevant, misleading analogies will equal a valid point.

 

[shinyedges]

Popcorn anyone?

Op, give your framelocks to me and only carry tri-ad locks. Problem solved.

Any lock can fail I had a wood shaving from my chainsaw stick to the stop pin on my cold steel ak47 and it would not lock up. Point is any folder can have a failure because their primary function is to fold. Do you want absolute assurance you knife won't fold? Fixed blade. Other wise except that ALL folders can experience lock failure.

 

[singularity35]

Last night I had my titanium frame lock knife on the table in the opened locked position. I was moving stuff around and my knife fell of the edge of my dining table,onto the hard stone floor.
When I picked it up I was surprised to see the lock had disengaged!
Is a waist high drop onto the equivalent of concrete really that much?
I'm used to axis, triad and back locks.. I don't think they would have closed.
What do you guys think?

Close it and drop it again. It should jar open and locked.

 

[asdf12345]

Popcorn anyone?

Op, give your framelocks to me and only carry tri-ad locks. Problem solved.

Any lock can fail I had a wood shaving from my chainsaw stick to the stop pin on my cold steel ak47 and it would not lock up. Point is any folder can have a failure because their primary function is to fold. Do you want absolute assurance you knife won't fold? Fixed blade. Other wise except that ALL folders can experience lock failure.

Again, debris in the space between the lockface and the tang can cause a linerlock or framelock knife to fail to lock or the lock to slip & disengage. All locking systems are susceptible to debris. That doesn't seem to be in the scope of the OPs discussion.

 

[Leftytwogunz]

I can go duplicate this hundreds of times with my $25 tri ad lock knife and it won't fail.

How can you be sure unless you actually try it?

 

[WyattCooper]

A lot of blades would break after a fall that high (or low?) onto concrete. Does it mean it's a defective knife? No. Is it more serious than the lock face slipping off of the tang after a fall like that? Not in my opinion.

...when violent, destructive, spinewhacks are involved, and those that do are quickly called out on it.

ASDF, I don't think you were being sarcastic when you were denouncing the validity of spine-wack tests. I think a fall from one meter onto a hard surface could definitely put more pressure on the blade than what is required to disengage a well-made framelock during a spine-whack.

Edit: Just found out that the velocity of an object which has fallen 1 meter in a vacuum (which shouldn't make a difference, there's only .16% drag) is 4.3 m/s. Use that to form your own thoughts.

 

[shinyedges]

Were discussing lock failure on folders he brought up cold steels tri-ad locks and I gave an example of my brand new cold steel knife that failed. Every knife that's called a folder can and will experience failure under certain conditions.

I see your argumentative so I'll let you know up front, argue with your self I'll ignore you. I don't know why purple even goes back and forth because you refuse to listen to anything other than what you opinion is.

An open mind makes learning easier, unless your the only human on earth who is NEVER wrong it might do you some good to hear other people out and not be so bull headed.

Again, debris in the space between the lockface and the tang can cause a linerlock or framelock knife to fail to lock or the lock to slip & disengage. All locking systems are susceptible to debris. That doesn't seem to be in the scope of the OPs discussion.

 

[Ajack60]

Bleedingfinger, I guess you answered your own question, yes, a frame lock can disengage if it is open and then dropped onto a hard surface. Maybe if it was dropped onto a soft surface it would not have done the same. What I've experienced is dropping a closed knife and it opening up upon impact. Both frame locks and AO. I still have and use those knives without issue.
I will not reply as to why the frame lock opened upon impact due to the unnecessary replies already.
This being your first frame lock, if you feel confident with the knife, use it and it will serve you well, if not, get rid of the frame lock and stick with what gives you that warm fuzzy feeling using your knives with confidence.