Frame lock failure?

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asdf12345 said:
Are you kidding me? I'm agreeing with you a hundred percent. Looking back, I realize that in all my use of knives I have never, not once, relaxed my grip on the lockbar of a knife while using it. Not only that, but it's actually impossible to relax your grip on the lockbar; that is, if you're not one of those stupid "defective users". Those pesky defective users and their lack of logic, right?





No amount of irrelevant, misleading analogies will equal a valid point.
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A loose grip is not the same thing as no grip. When holding a knife in your hand it is an extension of you. Even in a loose grip energy can be transfered from it, to you and vice versa. Your arm, hand and your soft tissue act as a shock absorber, absorbing impacts and transferring that energy in a way that doesnt equal a failure. Also because even with a loose grip you are still putting positive pressure on the lockbar fortifying its strength. A similar impact (possibly even a lighter one) without anything holding the lockbar or blade isolated means energy will try to take the path of least resistance which in this case are the moving parts such as the lockbar and blade. Because of the hardness of the substrate the impact will have more of an effect when combined with a sharp blow and nothing to absorb that shock.
 
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shinyedges said:
Were discussing lock failure on folders he brought up cold steels tri-ad locks and I gave an example of my brand new cold steel knife that failed. Every knife that's called a folder can and will experience failure under certain conditions.
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Lock failure involves a lot of things. Debris in a lock can cause failure very easily. The OP is discussing the scenario in which one of his knives experienced a short fall and the lock disengaged.

If this topic was about lock failure involving debris then there are tons of examples of all types of locks, whether they be linerlocks, framelocks, axis locks or triad locks, failing because of debris. I am aware that every folder will fail under certain conditions, and I have never challenged that.

I see your argumentative so I'll let you know up front, argue with your self I'll ignore you. I don't know why purple even goes back and forth because you refuse to listen to anything other than what you opinion is.
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He responds with a well-thought-out post demonstrating his view rather than clicking the "Ignore" button.
 
I didn't click the ignore button I simply told you if your planning on arguing I won't participate. Reading your posts its clear your unwilling to learn or accept anything other than your opinion. Which you did exactly as I thought, so peace.
asdf12345 said:
Lock failure involves a lot of things. Debris in a lock can cause failure very easily. The OP is discussing the scenario in which one of his knives experienced a short fall and the lock disengaged.

If this topic was about lock failure involving debris then there are tons of examples of all types of locks, whether they be linerlocks, framelocks, axis locks or triad locks, failing because of debris. I am aware that every folder will fail under certain conditions, and I have never challenged that.



He responds with a well-thought-out post demonstrating his view rather than clicking the "Ignore" button.
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shinyedges said:
I didn't click the ignore button I simply told you if your planning on arguing I won't participate. Reading your posts its clear your unwilling to learn or accept anything other than your opinion. Which you did exactly as I thought, so peace.
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Just because I do not agree with the particular thing you have to say doesn't mean that I as a person am unwilling to learn or accept anything other than my opinion.

If that was the case, then I could accuse you of the same thing.

You shared an experience that wasn't relevant to the disengagement issue that was being discussed - for what reason, I am not sure. If for example you had said "My triad locked knife fell from a building and it disengaged" then that would be very valuable information to the OP, because then he knows that what happened to his knife would have also happened to one of his triad locked knives. But instead you talked about a wood splinter preventing your knife from locking. That's why I made that comment.

PURPLEDC said:
A loose grip is not the same thing as no grip. When holding a knife in your hand it is an extension of you. Even in a loose grip energy can be transfered from it, to you and vice versa. Your arm, hand and your soft tissue act as a shock absorber, absorbing impacts and transferring that energy in a way that doesnt equal a failure. Also because even with a loose grip you are still putting positive pressure on the lockbar fortifying its strength. A similar impact (possibly even a lighter one) without anything holding the lockbar or blade isolated means energy will try to take the path of least resistance which in this case are the moving parts such as the lockbar and blade. Because of the hardness of the substrate the impact will have more of an effect when combined with a sharp blow and nothing to absorb that shock.
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This makes sense. Sorry for being sarcastic. If a knife disengages when dropped, what cutting uses would you be extra careful with on that particular knife?
 
WyattCooper said:
I would handle it similarly to a knife that fails when spine-whacked.
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clapping_joker_batman_dark_knight.gif
 
Sigh, he asked if framelocks are more susceptible to failure from impact. He also says the tri-ad would not fail under the same circumstances...which is why I said ANY folder lock can fail.

Your being narrow minded looking at my post. My post was just letting the OP know EVERY folder can fail under the right circumstances even the tri-ad lock. My experience with the tri-ad failure was a perfect example.

I guess you missed the point that every lock can and will fail and avoiding one lock doesn't mean the one your carrying won't fail in the same way or another way. Just be aware of each locks strength and weaknesses and carry what you want is my sentiment.

asdf12345 said:
Just because I do not agree with the particular thing you have to say doesn't mean that I as a person am unwilling to learn or accept anything other than my opinion.

If that was the case, then I could accuse you of the same thing.

You shared an experience that wasn't relevant to the disengagement issue that was being discussed - for what reason, I am not sure. If for example you had said "My triad locked knife fell from a building and it disengaged" then that would be very valuable information to the OP, because then he knows that what happened to his knife would have also happened to one of his triad locked knives. But instead you talked about a wood splinter preventing your knife from locking. That's why I made that comment.



This makes sense. Sorry for being sarcastic. If a knife disengages when dropped, what cutting uses would you be extra careful with on that particular knife?
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asdf12345 said:
Just because I do not agree with the particular thing you have to say doesn't mean that I as a person am unwilling to learn or accept anything other than my opinion.

If that was the case, then I could accuse you of the same thing.

You shared an experience that wasn't relevant to the disengagement issue that was being discussed - for what reason, I am not sure. If for example you had said "My triad locked knife fell from a building and it disengaged" then that would be very valuable information to the OP, because then he knows that what happened to his knife would have also happened to one of his triad locked knives. But instead you talked about a wood splinter preventing your knife from locking. That's why I made that comment.



This makes sense. Sorry for being sarcastic. If a knife disengages when dropped, what cutting uses would you be extra careful with on that particular knife?
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Dont apologize. Me and you are more alike than we are different. We just havent been agreeing on everything lately. At the end of the day id still buy you a beer. As to your question I probably wouldnt exercise any more caution with it than i had before because like i said i would have chalked it up to a fluke of circumstances and aligned stars. Like i said i have had this happen and at first i raised an eyebrow myself. But then i could not repeat the phenomenon and i amounted it to just one of those weird things that happen. I have had it happen on three different occasions with three different knives. On one of hem i tried to replicate the issue but it would not. The other two i was too miffed i just dinged a perfectly good knife to repeat the conditions of the test and probably spent the reat of the day being bitter. So i am willing to budge on my argument in the sense that i probably dont expect as much from my knives as you might. Even with fit and finish i have dramatically lowered my expectations to reflect that its a tool and not a commemorative dinner plate. I treat every folding knife i own as if there is no lock. To me its not a parachute to be relied on. I think of it as the reserve chute in case my original (in this case my brain) fails.
 
Anyone on here commenting know how a 3 foot drop translates into a failure during actual usage? And if so, please elaborate.
 
Paka said:
Yeah, so like any other lock that has reasonable strength. Both tests are irrelevant to real life use, why's that so hard to understand?
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What's so hard to understand about some people having different standards and opinions from you?
 
Sure, people who drop their knives onto concrete a lot should get tri-ad locks?? Lol
ijustdontknow said:
Anyone on here commenting know how a 3 foot drop translates into a failure during actual usage? And if so, please elaborate.
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singularity35 said:
What's so hard to understand about some people having different standards and opinions from you?
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Different standards? Okay, please explain in what situation a spine whack or drop test would be relevant in real use? Or are you just trying to argue with me? I guess if you're in your backyard throwing your knife at the fence all day it might be relevant to you. Or hammering with the spine of your knife, open.
 
Paka said:
Yeah, so like any other lock that has reasonable strength. Both tests are irrelevant to real life use, why's that so hard to understand?
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How about using a flint and charcloth? having both a folder and a fixed that can do that job is important to some.
 
ijustdontknow said:
Anyone on here commenting know how a 3 foot drop translates into a failure during actual usage? And if so, please elaborate.
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I forget the model knife the OP had, but for most frame locks (not sure about steel sub-frame locks), the lock failure after being dropped is caused by the pressure/shock being put on the blade. It makes the lock face easier to disengage, and the titanium gets pushed outward (in some cases, the lock bar is temporarily warped).

An easy way to see this is to put a slight amount of pressure on the blade of a frame lock while slowly disengaging the lock (do this repeatedly at your own risk). It becomes extremely easy to disengage.

This might be more obvious in hardened lock faces, which can make the titanium more slippery when engaged with the blade tang. Softer metals (like untreated titanium) bond more easily with harder metals (like steel).

Edit: I'm stupid and can't read, ignore that part. It shouldn't result in failure during normal uses. There's a lot of opinion that determines what "usage" is, though. If you hit something (like the top of a cabinet with the back of your knife around 4 m/s (equivalent of dropping something 3 feet) and you have a normal grip around your knife, it shouldn't fail, as your hand would stop it from slipping any further. It depends on the lock geometry, though, which varies from knife model to knife model, and a lot of the times varies in each knife.

And, if you think about it, the force mitigated from the blade to the lock bar is very minimal, since it doesn't take a lot of pressure for the lock bar to close and the force of the impact would spread mostly downward through the knife, not sideways to unlock the knife. Your hand, when it's gripping the knife, could stop quite a bit of force from the lock bar. During safe usage, I think it's safe to say that the force of this impact would not cause the lock to fail.
 
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pinecraft said:
How about using a flint and charcloth? having both a folder and a fixed that can do that job is important to some.
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AHa!

That actually had not occurred to me. It makes me nervous enough doing this with a fixed blade.
 
Paka said:
Different standards? Okay, please explain in what situation a spine whack or drop test would be relevant in real use? Or are you just trying to argue with me? I guess if you're in your backyard throwing your knife at the fence all day it might be relevant to you. Or hammering with the spine of your knife, open.
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Why? It is my preference that I use knives that pass a spine whack test. I don't have to explain my preferences to you.
 
^I prefer knives that can handle a spinewhack as well.
 
singularity35 said:
Why? It is my preference that I use knives that pass a spine whack test. I don't have to explain my preferences to you.
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Haha, OK big guy.. Just proves my point. If it's "just your preference" that's fine. Doesn't make it relevant to real life use.
 
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