frame lock questions

doesnt the sebenza (that everyone loves so much) have a thumb relief. can it open unexpectadly? my personal favorite lock (for ease of use) is the axis. unfortunatly benchmade does not make any one knife i am particularley fond of. my favorite bm is the 556. but, it just feals cheap in my hand, due to the plastic scales. as far as i know they do not make a very simalar knife with g10, carbon fiber, metal etc. if they do, someone please tell! i was going to get a 705, but i can only find one with combo edge here. i am afraid to order one because i have seen to many less than perfect examples of this model. bm seems to have more consistent quality on some models than others. strangely, the 556 has the best quality control across the board i have seen from them. this being there least expensive model, that is indeed weird. i know the axis can be opened unexpectadly, but for what i do i doubt that would happen. unless i accidently operated it with my thumb. well the camillus edc was my favorite knife overall(price dependant). untill mr. ralph said it could pop open. i mean no offense mr ralph, i am glad you have been truthfull. is the seb a lot less likely to open? if the seb is just THE perfect knife i guess i'll just have to get that. it will be worth it, as i will carry it for many years. if the seb. can open in the same manner as the edc, than i would say that the edc is still the better value. i guess there is no perfect knife in every respect. i think it boils down to getting what suits your individual needs. well, looking at bigger knives seems to provide more features/quality. but, i don't see a 3.5+ inch knife fitting inside my trousers pocket. i do not use the clip.





thank you,
holdanedge.
 
i did not realize untill just now that mr. ralph also makes the edc. is there a design difference between your (mr. ralph) knives and the camillus line? or just a difference in materials? to my knowledge the aluminum is heavier and stronger than titainium(i may be wrong). mr. ralph's knives being even more expensive than the sebenza, i would say they are direct competiters. no doubt, mr ralph's knives are nicer than their camillus counterparts . but, if the camillus is bassicly the same knife simply with aluminum instead of titainium, i would consider that one heck of a bargain! i also just saw mr. ralph's wilson line when i visited his site. very nice indeed! i will have to get a better job so i can buy more knives!


thank you,
holdanedge.
 
Hold an edge: save your money and get the Sebenza. You will save money in the long run. But you will probably do what I did. Get a better job and do without things (like a fancy new car) so that you can sample all the knives you mentioned. Mr. Ralph's custom knives are fancy and the fit and finish are better than his production counterparts. You get what you pay for. The Sebenza is a great knife. A little less expensive that custom folders from the really good makers but it is high quality and you can use the heck out of it and send it back to CRK and they will fix it up as good as new for a very reasonable price. Also check into a maker named Mike Obernauf. I have heard a lot of good things about him lately. I have one of his framelocks on order for $300 + postage with a four month wait time. He works with Kit Carson and Kit is an absolute legend in the custom knifemaking world. Save yourself a lot of money and aggravation and start with a good product like the Sebenza or a custom. I spent all kinds of money chasing less expensive knives and ended up with Sebenzas and customs. Just my two cents from someone who's been in your position. Good luck! And by the way I have never had a Sebenza open unexpectedly. A well made folder won't do that. :) :cool: :eek: ;)
 
You need to operate a frame lock to fully understand what it offers. I personally feel more secure with a frame locking knife that is well-made.

My latest one is a JW Smith titanium framelock with recurved blade. The operation is like - I don't know - it's like clockwork. Buttery smooth, nice, authoritative metallic clink upon opening and solid lockup with no blade play whatsoever. I'm digging this one as it has the flipper. Otherwise, It's just as enjoyable as my large Sabenza.

Scott Dog's advice is sage. I loved my production models until I started getting aquainted with better-made productions and handmade knives. There is usually a distinctive, quality feel to the knives that make them a joy to use. It's actually a real joy to take one out, use it and then put it back. Or to take out and just look at it and flick-it and stuff.

If you like good tools, you'll love a wel-made handmade knife.
 
There is quite a bit of difference between the Darrel Ralph EDC and the Cammilus. The DEDC is thicker, having thicker titanium handle slabs, which gives a better grip, and also provides a sturdier integral lock. The DEDC does not have a large cutout for the finger for disengaging the lock, its almost like there is not one there. it is not the updated design like he has with the Aftermath and such, but is still very secure. The DEDC that I have is the 3" model with anodized titanium.
4141.jpeg
 
holdanedge - I wouldn't go getting all worried about various frame lock designs. Darrel is just doing what a good knifemaker does, refining his designs over time. It doesn't make the Sebenza or Camillus EDC an inferior design, just not as refined to the way that Darrel currently prefers his frame locks. People have been using Sebenzas for a long, long time. The Camillus EDC also has a great track record, with no reported failures that I know of. If Darrel's new designs are even better, that's just icing on the cake. The frame lock is a great lock design no matter what.

I surely wouldn't worry about the Camillus EDC opening up unexpectedly. Many people consider the EDC to have too strong a ball detent, as Camillus decided to err on the side of safety. The strong ball detent makes it a little harder to open one-handed, but much safer.

As for the Sebenza, you won’t have a problem if you carry it in your front right pocket, where the blade is wedged between the frame and your pocket. This will prevent the knife from opening unexpectedly. But if you carry it some other way, where there is no pressure to hold the blade closed, it could theoretically open up on you. Unlikely, but possible. That’s the downside of tip-up carry. All designs have pros and cons.

But anyways, we’re getting into some pretty esoteric stuff here. If you like the way a knife feels in your hand, and the blade shape and geometry are good for your cutting chores, that’s 99% of the battle. Don’t sweat the small stuff unless you’re paying out for a custom.
 
alright, i am off of the camillus edc again. seeing as i cannot even find one to look at. i meant no offense to you mr. ralph. i figured your knives looked the same, but were much better. now i know(from reading everyones posts) that indeed they are better. plus the fact that your edc is thicker is a great bonus. my main complaint with the (420) camillus edc was that it was too thin. i bought a few benchmades i am not really happy with. not because of quality(i hand picked the good ones), but because of ergonomics and asthetics. i want a 705, but cannot find one without a combo edge. then again, maybe i can use the combo edge? i do gardining that includes cutting very heavy vines that cannot be cut with my other 3" straight blades. will the serations help cut through this? what about sharpining them?
realizing that the camillus edc is $50, can i do better for $150-$200 short of the $305 sebenza. i want to get something that i enjoy, like yesterday! this store here has some discounted klotzli framelocks with 440c blades for $200 they were $300. any good? remember i want to stay 3" or just under. but, still with a fairly stout blade. and metal, g10, or carbon handles. i really like the axis lock. but the qc, is hit or miss. everyone seems to know that already.
so i guess the question is, is there a good production framelock(better than the camillus) for right around $150-$200.
i am sorry i am probably driving y'all crazy that i keep changing my mind! i am learning a lot. and really appreciate everyone here helping me. now if i just had more money i would know exactly what knife to get!



thank you,
holdanedge.
 
Buzz is right.
The Benza is a great knife, as is the EDC.

The EDC was designed as the po mans benza.
If you loose it your not out 300.00.
It works great!

Boink,
John make a great knife.


BTW:
Other upgrades on my newer knives are: the opening on all the newer knives is smoother while maintaining lock reliability and NO blade wobble with the lock disengaged from the back of the blade.
One thing to consider. If a frame lock is to easy to open, I get suspect at this point. Lock reliability and blade wobble (with the lock disengaged ) is where I look. I have seen knives that flip right out ect. This is fine and dandy. They always have blade play with the lock bar disengaged. This is just not acceptable. This causes lock failure in a bad situation, and accelerated lock wear.

All the newer knives are now made in left hand as a standard and base models are available along with the fancy models.
 
Hehehehe..... From now on, I'm calling you “The Mysterious Vacillating Holdanedge”. You’re taking this stuff way too seriously!!! Trust me. If you don’t order a custom made knife to your own specifications, you’ll never find anything that has every single tiny feature that you want. You especially won’t find it in a $50.00 knife, and I strongly doubt there is anything like what you want in the $200.00 price range.

I’ll amend my previous advice. If you demand the whole enchilada, just order a custom from Darrel. If you don’t, this thread will go on until you’ve actually saved up enough money to order one from Darrel. You might as well get on his waiting list now.

I haven’t been this picky since I chose my second wife!!!
 
lol. ok sorry. i am like this about everything! you would hate to see me when i need a new car! i guess i'll just get a dang knife already. the truth is that a knife is not that important of an item in my life that i would spend $500+ on it. and all the knives under $200, be them $50 or $200 are going to have some modicum of short comings. so i guess i'll just pick one that fits my hand and thats it. i would have had the camillus edc already if any store around here had it.
plus my budget does not seem to buy me any better than 154cm. so as long as i don't pick a particular dud, all the under $200 knives just seem to be a matter of preference. under $200 is not going to buy me anything spectacular. so i have come to realize.
alright, i promise not to bother everyone around here again, untill there is a shiny new knife in my hand! then i'll probably complain how lousy it is for a $50 knife! hahahaha. well, i guess you guys are lucky you don't know me in person. i have a habit of driving people nuts! i am sure you can tell.





holdanedge.
 
it seems to me that the framelock design makes the lockup very strong at the cost of keeping the frame itself strong. as usual i may be wrong. but since i started looking at things i cannot possibly afford i noticed most of the multi thousand dolar customs are liner locks or even lock backs. or some type of proprietary lock design. i wish benchmade would licsense their axis deisgn to some custom makers. it is my favorite lock. i doubt it is that strong, it is very complex. nonetheless, it is very convienient to use. i find, even on my seb. and friends sebs the lock gets quite hard to pull apart if you squeeze the frame tight. i would certainly get another seb, but i am going to get a full custom first, that probably will have a liner lock. hopefully from mr. walker. liner locks do not seem to be as strong but at least there is not half of one side of the frame that does nothing for the structural integrity of the frame. in the case of the small seb. i doubt this matters, since the thing is built like a tank all around. but, on the camillus edc with all the holes punched out of it, the thin frame walls, it may be an issue. i don't know. just speculating. if you can twist the whole frame because it is too thin it will probably pop open the lock. i think on the seb you would have to man handle it though. i guess my real gripe with frame lock is that i have to put my thumb meat into it to open it. this is also true of liner lock, but it does not take as much effort to release. then again, on linerlock your hand is in the path of the blade while releasing it. that is why my favorite is the axis. i would really love to see benchmade make some much fancier knives with better q.c.. or at least licsense the lock design to other companies/individuals.

hey, if you want to see what i got that made me happy for about a day, read my other post! which gives me a great idea! if you love the axis(as do i) buy the one you like and have a local knife artist "jazz" it up!

anyways, i am under the weather so i might not be here for a short while.



holdanedge.
 
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