French regional knives...

[Jolipapa]

Here is my modest Trio of French Beauties ~

View attachment 1291364

Top - Laguiole Made by SCIP • Thiers, France • in the mid 1990s

Middle - L'Aurillac by Pierre Yves Joyeux • Escoutoux, France • January, 2020

Bottom - Le Thiers POCKET by Fontenille Pataud • Thiers, France • February 2020

Fine array! (I have a soft spot for the horn)

If they were US, one could name 'em :

But as they're French, let's try this:

(untranslatable )

 

[Prester John]

Here is my modest Trio of French Beauties ~

View attachment 1291364

Top - Laguiole Made by SCIP • Thiers, France • in the mid 1990s

Middle - L'Aurillac by Pierre Yves Joyeux • Escoutoux, France • January, 2020

Bottom - Le Thiers POCKET by Fontenille Pataud • Thiers, France • February 2020

Three beauties, Ray.

 

[waynorth]

Here is my modest Trio of French Beauties ~

View attachment 1291364

Top - Laguiole Made by SCIP • Thiers, France • in the mid 1990s

Middle - L'Aurillac by Pierre Yves Joyeux • Escoutoux, France • January, 2020

Bottom - Le Thiers POCKET by Fontenille Pataud • Thiers, France • February 2020

Nice triumvirate, Ray!! Well chosen!!

 

[herder]

Here is an old French knife which could be overlooked in a group setting, but that would be a mistake...

This Veritable Farge takes the form of a classic single blade jack pattern, but has many subtle details that get lost in its straight forward appearance.
With a handle size of just over 4 inches, it is a healthy sized folder. The two-tone bias cut horn handles have nice appeal, and a few extra brass handle pins add more detail.
But the blade and bolsters are something more to study. The blade is a standard flat spear-point with a half moon nail pull, but what some would call a second long nail pull, runs the length of the blade from the regular pull through the tang. The makers stamp is strong and sits lengthwise with the blade which is another nice feature. The blade also has flush joints in both the half stop and closed position which is a wonderful detail that goes unnoticed by many. Finally, the bolster are not only curved and pinched types, but they are also angle cut to fit into the horn handles in a slant form. Another feature which few knives have.

I believe this Veritable Farge French folder dates to the 1920s - 1930s era, and a comparable model is shown from a 1926 French cutlery catalog.
Aside from the knife and catalog illustration, is a picture showing the flush blade joint in the closed position.

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[waynorth]

Here is an old French knife which could be overlooked in a group setting, but that would be a mistake...

This Veritable Farge takes the form of a classic single blade jack pattern, but has many subtle details that get lost in its straight forward appearance.
With a handle size of just over 4 inches, it is a healthy sized folder. The two-tone bias cut horn handles have nice appeal, and a few extra brass handle pins add more detail.
But the blade and bolsters are something more to study. The blade is a standard flat spear-point with a half moon nail pull, but what some would call a second long nail pull, runs the length of the blade from the regular pull through the tang. The makers stamp is strong and sits lengthwise with the blade which is another nice feature. The blade also has flush joints in both the half stop and closed position which is a wonderful detail that goes unnoticed by many. Finally, the bolster are not only curved and pinched types, but they are also angle cut to fit into the horn handles in a slant form. Another feature which few knives have.

I believe this Veritable Farge French folder dates to the 1920s - 1930s era, and a comparable model is shown from a 1926 French cutlery catalog.
Aside from the knife and catalog illustration, is a picture showing the flush blade joint in the closed position.

View attachment 1291754

View attachment 1291764

View attachment 1291765

Beauty Neal!! Nice discovery, and thanks for pointing out the wonderful details!!

It is great that you show this knife, Neal!! Here is a knife that shares many of the features (except the low mileage on yours) including the markings!! A Veritable Farge, horn handles, clean and square joint, beveled-inward bolsters with rattail-like grooves!! Obviously the same company. This knife is about
5 3/16" closed, so, a large knife!
Well made!!

 

[Jolipapa]

Here is an old French knife which could be overlooked in a group setting, but that would be a mistake...

This Veritable Farge takes the form of a classic single blade jack pattern, but has many subtle details that get lost in its straight forward appearance.
With a handle size of just over 4 inches, it is a healthy sized folder. The two-tone bias cut horn handles have nice appeal, and a few extra brass handle pins add more detail.
But the blade and bolsters are something more to study. The blade is a standard flat spear-point with a half moon nail pull, but what some would call a second long nail pull, runs the length of the blade from the regular pull through the tang. The makers stamp is strong and sits lengthwise with the blade which is another nice feature. The blade also has flush joints in both the half stop and closed position which is a wonderful detail that goes unnoticed by many. Finally, the bolster are not only curved and pinched types, but they are also angle cut to fit into the horn handles in a slant form. Another feature which few knives have.

I believe this Veritable Farge French folder dates to the 1920s - 1930s era, and a comparable model is shown from a 1926 French cutlery catalog.
Aside from the knife and catalog illustration, is a picture showing the flush blade joint in the closed position.

View attachment 1291754

View attachment 1291764

View attachment 1291765

Véritable Farge (aka the hook) was a well respected brand of Thiers with a wide range of patterns. Yours is a nice Pradel replica (the advertisment is amazing, quoting the pattern "carter's knife, probably because Pradel -the brand- still existed. Now it is a common word like frigidaire or delco). Slanted bolsters are typical of Pradels and the pin location varies depending of makers.
The beveled blade is a unique feature, adding a classy touch.



The long nail pull is usually typical of the Rouennais knife and very rare on Pradels. Both patterns sold mostly in Normandy, but only the Rouennais is a genuine Normand pattern (as of today no more cutler in Normandy).

(picture Le Rouennais)

Beauty Neal!! Nice discovery, and thanks for pointing out the wonderful details!!

It is great that you show this knife, Neal!! Here is a knife that shares many of the features (except the low mileage on yours) including the markings!! A Veritable Farge, horn handles, clean and square joint, beveled-inward bolsters with rattail-like grooves!! Obviously the same company. This knife is about
5 3/16" closed, so, a large knife!
Well made!!
View attachment 1291787 View attachment 1291788 View attachment 1291789

A good old sturdy Yatagan, Charlie!

(Parapluie catalogue)

 

[herder]

Beauty Neal!! Nice discovery, and thanks for pointing out the wonderful details!!

It is great that you show this knife, Neal!! Here is a knife that shares many of the features (except the low mileage on yours) including the markings!! A Veritable Farge, horn handles, clean and square joint, beveled-inward bolsters with rattail-like grooves!! Obviously the same company. This knife is about
5 3/16" closed, so, a large knife!
Well made!!
View attachment 1291787 View attachment 1291788 View attachment 1291789

Thanks, Charlie, and wonderful to see the bigger brother from the Veritable Farge family. Beautiful old knife!!!

 

[herder]

Véritable Farge (aka the hook) was a well respected brand of Thiers with a wide range of patterns. Yours is a nice Pradel replica (the advertisment is amazing, quoting the pattern "carter's knife, probably because Pradel -the brand- still existed. Now it is a common word like frigidaire or delco). Slanted bolsters are typical of Pradels and the pin location varies depending of makers.
The beveled blade is a unique feature, adding a classy touch.

View attachment 1291869 View attachment 1291870

The long nail pull is usually typical of the Rouennais knife and very rare on Pradels. Both patterns sold mostly in Normandy, but only the Rouennais is a genuine Normand pattern (as of today no more cutler in Normandy).

(picture Le Rouennais)






A good old sturdy Yatagan, Charlie!

(Parapluie catalogue)

Jolipapa, thanks for the additional information which I really appreciate!!!
That is a fantastic old knife with great horn and neat birds eye type pins. While I have seen old French fleams, I don't remember seeing a French folding knife with one, very cool.
What do you think for an age of that knife, 1900 give or take a little???

 

[Jolipapa]

Jolipapa, thanks for the additional information which I really appreciate!!!
That is a fantastic old knife with great horn and neat birds eye type pins. While I have seen old French fleams, I don't remember seeing a French folding knife with one, very cool.
What do you think for an age of that knife, 1900 give or take a little???

Can't say, it was made in Normandy until 1870, then in Thiers (to keep a local flavor, most times the retailer's name was stamped on the blade) until 1960. Dupré in Cernay was probably a retailer.
Size could be up to 14cm (5'1/2) and there were 5 smaller from 11cm. Could be single blade or up to 6 pieces.
It was mostly used by farmers, cattlemen, vets and you could find cork screw, awl, saw, one or several fleames, hoof cleaner.
Other names are cinq rosettes (5 eyes) or queue de vache (cow's tail).

(all pictures borrowed http://couteauxdepoche.forumactif.com/t227-le-rouennais?highlight=rouennais)

A two pieces sold by Declair, Bellême, Perche, probably made in Tinchebray, Orne (lower Normandy).
The other cutlery town was Sourdeval in the Cotentin, Manche (Upper Normandy).

Another local, Giroud, Argentan, Orne again. (sold on the US bay for $565 in 2014).

The upper one is a #recent Issard, middle probably Thiers, lower ???.

5 pieces made in Thiers, pre-1920, 11cm.

A few from Seb's collection.

Retru-Gros (Thiers) was a great specialist of fleames.

 

[Will Power]

Great info thanks JP particularly liked those catalogue pics,lot of elegance on view. Just when a man thinks he understands a bit about French cutlery,he discovers there's far more waiting in the wings But this is rewarding

Regards, Will

 

[Jolipapa]

Great info thanks JP particularly liked those catalogue pics,lot of elegance on view. Just when a man thinks he understands a bit about French cutlery,he discovers there's far more waiting in the wings But this is rewarding

Regards, Will

You're welcome, Will. Problem is a tradition of secrecy in the business. Today, only Thiers remains (with a good few craftsmen here and there), but in the XIXth century, except Brittany (as far as I know) and besides Châteauroux and the Langres/Nogent region, there were cutlers everywhere making one or two highly typified regional patterns.
Unfortunately the many wars dispersed or destroyed a good deal of archives.

 

[RayseM]

Qu'est-ce qu'une fleam?

 

[Jolipapa]

Qu'est-ce qu'une fleam?

A fleam (flamme in French) was a vet's tool used for bloodletting.

 

[Prester John]

A fleam (flamme in French) was a vet's tool used for bloodletting.

Several of my knives are "fleams"!

 

[RayseM]

Vince

 

[pjsjr]

I was in my favorite 'antique/flea market today and picked this orphaned soul up. I had not seen or handled one before and was very impressed...of course, I bought it I'm making my way through this thread, which, I know is going to cost me! I had no idea there where so many variations. Thanks to all who are posting pictures and information.

 

[Prester John]

I was in my favorite 'antique/flea market today and picked this orphaned soul up. I had not seen or handled one before and was very impressed...of course, I bought it I'm making my way through this thread, which, I know is going to cost me! I had no idea there where so many variations. Thanks to all who are posting pictures and information.

That's a beauty.

 

[Jolipapa]

Genès David of Thiers was an important supplier of parts (called "fournitures") for Laguioles. Today parts come

I was in my favorite 'antique/flea market today and picked this orphaned soul up. I had not seen or handled one before and was very impressed...of course, I bought it I'm making my way through this thread, which, I know is going to cost me! I had no idea there where so many variations. Thanks to all who are posting pictures and information.

Genès David of Thiers was an important supplier of parts (called "fournitures") for Laguioles. Nowadays parts come from Roger Orfèvre.

 

[pjsjr]

That's a beauty.

Thanks, Vince!

Genès David of Thiers was an important supplier of parts (called "fournitures") for Laguioles. Nowadays parts come Roger Orfèvre.

Jolipapa, thank you for all the information you have contributed to BF and this thread. I might have missed this in the thread...is there a way to tell, approximately, when a Laguiole was made?

Here are a few more photos...

 

[Jolipapa]

Thanks, Vince!

Jolipapa, thank you for all the information you have contributed to BF and this thread. I might have missed this in the thread...is there a way to tell, approximately, when a Laguiole was made?

Here are a few more photos...

As far as I know, impossible to date a Laguiole, except for extinct brands and ancestors, though even then nothing gives a precise hint, just a period. The blade or handle material can give some clue, the forged/soldered mouche also, gimmick details, but even that is not totally clear, no datation system existing.
When the ebb was low (#1970-#1990), they stopped forging the mouche and soldered it, but today you can still get a soldered mouche on lower and mid ranges.
It is said that on older examples, the guillochage was the signature of the guy who made her. But then it was always the same, regardless of the year.
It may amuse you to know that when my son asked the same when he showed me the Chambriard his wife just gave him, he stated:
- there's a serial n° on the tang
- ok son, go on
- 12C27
-